Meanwhile in Catalonia...


The Constitution of Spain seems too rigid. If adjusting the Constitution makes Spain a more stable and better place why not?

Right now Spain is a bit of a mess and things aren’t looking too rosy. Most of this could be avoided with some flexibility.


No freaking idea what you are talking about, really. Can you explain why we have to give more autonomy to Catalonia?

You aren’t aware of the fact that part of their plan was to manipulate people’s opinion talking shit about other autonomous regions, saying (lying) that regions like Andalusia have more competences than Catalonia (and again this was a lie, but most of the independentists don’t know it, just believe what they were told).


I don’t see any proposal to make Spain better. What is it again?


You don’t have to give you should have give some autonomy otherwise your precious state and economy will be unstable with 25% of it in continuous turmoil.

There’s no reason that Spain should be poor compared to Northern states.



Why? the local government is blackmailing again the central government. But after many years doing it, the got to the point to ask for the ultimate claim: independence. The answer is no, and right now they are very, very weak: they don’t have as much social and political support as they need, and to “negotiate” with them after they HAVE DECLARED already the independence is very stupid. The next step is to apply the law.


Now that’s facist talk. :).

You don’t want to negotiate then prepare for the consequences.

Remain poor and backwards.



I don’t mind to explain what is happening in Spain, but it’s very tiring to have somebody misinformed about the topic telling me (?) or Spain what needs to be done. Really.

Did you even know that the reason for them to rush the independence? Google what happens in Andorra starting from 2018. I will make it easy for you: bank secrecy. And then Google Catalonia 3%. It is very easy to understand, even for very misinformed people.


Sounds like conspiracy theories to me mate.


LOL. Fascist talk: to apply the law with those who have incurred in SEVERE sedition.

This happens in Germany or in USA and Puigdemont would be in jail at his first attempt.


what is a conspiracy?


Severe sedition lol.

Given the history of your country…maybe not so funny.


Some rubbish about bank secrecy Andorra blah blah.


Now, I can’t only call you stupid. Look it up or shut up. Apparently you don’t care about the facts, you just defend a posture giving zero arguments, and when I bother to give you information, you just call it on bullshit, because… again, no reason. ???

Bug off, I’m not wasting time with you anymore.


Can you explain this Andorra crackpot theory to those of us with little brains? :slight_smile:


However, and because some users here are helping the misinformation campaign, I’m posting here a news that some people might find interesting and even read:


Not to you, seriously, this is my last response to you.


It seems you don’t like a robust argument.
As a fellow European living in Taiwan I’m sure we have much in common actually but you have to be able to debate without accusing the other side of being traitors and sedition and wild conspiracy theories and all being wrong etc.

Surely you should see that they have a strong case for greater autonomy and this will not necessarily lead to independence . Look at Quebec as an example perhaps where they are able to run many of their own affairs and the independence cause has died away.


To recap: some of the local politicians have been lying openly to their voters about what would happen during and after this independence adventure, saying that Catalonia would be a member state of the EU from the beginning, that there wouldn’t be any “corralito”, that companies would fight for getting contracts with them instead of leaving Catalonia… of of these things were lies, and they were explained byt the highest instances of Spain, Europe and business representative that all these things were totally wrong. They kept lying on their local media to reach their goal.

A few days ago a document about their strategy was found when the second man of Junqueras was arrested. This plan proposed the following: to create a social conflict with Spain so that conciliation weren’t possible. They would force the situation so that people would be against Spain and pro independence. Please notice the cynicism of these people: “they want to talk, they want to negotiate”. Wrong. Lie again:


A couple of days ago I was reading that some large companies based in Catalonia decided to pack up and move their headquarters to “mainland Spain”, is it true? I remember a communication company, but don’t know what the others were.

Edit: Caixa, moving the HQ to Mallorca


Yes but why did it get to such a critical situation in the first place?

Lack of flexibility.

That politicians will exaggerate and lie is a universal truth.
Brexit in the UK being the greatest recent example.