In summary -hope you guys can see it completely-
Personally, I’ll keep eating simple food … constantly.
ie., his method is impractical for most people - or, more specifically, there are easier ways to ensure calorie balance than trying to calculate what’s in your food.
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It’s not impractical. It’s difficult. You have made it a priority in your diet and although you might be an extraordinary person I wouldn’t consider eating healthy to be an extraordinary task.
If they made it a priority to eat healthy food then they could do it. If you eat breads, cakes and drinking 275 calories sodas then you are going to eat more. If you are eating lean meats, vegetables, fruits and other solid (and healthy) food then aren’t going to need to count calories. You will be full unless you eat until you feel sick (that should be a sign).
As much as I enjoy our debates (which we seem to mostly agree on but end up debating anyway) I would appreciate in the future if you can’t accurately represent my opinions, don’t quote me. To take a single quote out of context and then say I disagree with it is disingenuous to our broader debate. I don’t disagree with it actually.
I eat roughly 1500-1800 calories of lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and whole grains, and another 600 or so calories of junk food. Although I will agree with you that the typical westerner doesn’t actually eat this way, that’s not really saying anything of substance since the typical westerner is overweight.
They absolutely could eat this way, and it’s really not that hard. You seem to be repeating the same falsehood over and over. Like somehow it’s hard in the year 2015 to have some basic caloric awareness. I would venture a guess that taking 5 minutes to take a rough estimate of calories is easier than any project you’ve ever been given at work, or anything you’ve ever done in school. While it would possibly be an ego boost to say I’m doing something everyday that most people can’t do (yeah for me) it would be absurd to imply that. Calorie counting is something that literally anybody can do in a few minutes a day. If they can’t, I cringe to even ask what other basic tasks they feel they can’t perform. I spend more time brushing my teeth in a day than I do counting calories.
The 1500+ of healthy food plus 2 litres of water would fill up most people on it’s own. I work out a lot, so I have room for 600 more junk calories which I personally enjoy. So again, to say people don’t eat this way is correct. To say people couldn’t eat this way is just silly. They can and they should. There are very few things in this world more important than our health. Actively managing it, and putting a few numbers on paper is not asking much. Abstract thoughts of weight loss tend to remain that way. Plans that are written down and executed have a far higher chance of success.
Back in the ol country, I had practically no “junk food” per se. The traditional diet looks something like this:
Which is quite carb heavy. Most calories are ingested in the morning, because we start our day early and end up earlier too. You also walk a lot -and run a lot, after buses or away from thieves-, lot less driving and sitting, and have more chances at open spaces -weekends at the beach anyone?
The clash with Taiwanese diet was… horrendous. I never had so much oily stuff/fried stuff in my life before. Eating out is a sure way to end up without a waistline. If it was something like this:
It wouldn’t be that bad, but when you add gipai or paiku -friend chicken breast or pork chops- plus veggies swimming in oil -and don’t get me started on what kind of crap is in the oil- then you have a problem. Plus we do not walk that much and sit way too much. No matter what Taiwanese say, they do eat way too many not so good snacks: cookies and crisps are rampant in offices, promotions celebrated with heavy tangyuans, cakes and etc. If you think about it, you have hot soy milk which is essentially good and healthy, but loaded with sugar and then you dip what is basically fried oil with a bit of dough -youtiao- in it… Or just this thing: paomien. Or bread, bread and more plastic infused bread.
Better switch to fruits and avoid sugary, processed snacks -processed food altogether-, and try to eat as healthily as possible, before not only your weight but most importantly your health suffers. I shake my head as to why the Taiwanese eat a lot more than I do and remain “thin”… but then I can lift boxes and carry gongwens two floors up without fainting. I’d be in better shape if I wasn’t in this stressful and sedentary job but then I wouldn’t be able to pay for the healthy food because a burger/bientang is 100 NTD but a salad is 300 NTD.
However, at the end of the day I’d rather have some rice and beans and ripe plantain with some nice braised meat and veggies. That would be healthy and fulfilling for both mind and soul and belly. 
Agree with nearly everything you said, except:
I assure you the Taiwanese people have not learned the secret to defying the laws of physics. If they are “thin” it’s because they aren’t consuming more energy than their body burns. I know it looks like they eat a lot when you’re with them, but the other 90% of their life that you don’t get to witness first hand is likely not adding much to their long-term caloric balance they have struck with their body. My girlfriend will eat just as much pasta or hot pot or sushi as I do when we go out, but when you add up the rest of the day, and balance it over a month, it’s not too much for her. It just looks like a lot sometimes. Like really, wow it looks like a lot sometimes. 
That picture of the first meal looks really good ! 50 - 60% of my calories are from carbs, love em. They aren’t the enemy, they are our bodies best source of energy 
Dunno, Brent, the number of people affected with food related disorders among the locals is also way too high. Got people in my office with bulimia and one so anorexic only gets nourishment via intravenous -goes to the hospital to get the diendi when she can’t take the starving anymore. That is no way to live.
A lot of them, actually, I’d say have more active lives. Hiking, games of ping pong, basketball, etc. also add more than just sitting at the desk. Just dragging your scooter from the average parking lot is enough calorie burning for what they eat, me thinks. Furthermore, wait until menopause hits… then they’ll plump out.
The traditional carbs in Latin America have a lot of fiber, protein, vitamins, very nourishing stuff. The rice and beans combo is a powerhouse, which is why it is so popular. Tasty, too, especially with all the traditional seasonings of cumin and other healthy spices, plus herbs. Lots of energy but slow digesting, nourishing energy. Pity now it is not “economical” to eat like that, we do not even cultivate beans anymore. It is imported from China.
I’m not aware of them being any higher or lower than any other country (basically for lack of research) Do you have any statistics or studies that show Taiwan has a disproportionate amount of eating disorders compared to the Western world?
I’m not aware of them being any higher or lower than any other country (basically for lack of research) Do you have any statistics or studies that show Taiwan has a disproportionate amount of eating disorders compared to the Western world?[/quote]
No, because like other mental issues, it is not discussed. Just empirical, within arms’ reach kind of what I can see word of mouth. Like cancer patients, you start counting how many you know of, and go like, froggers, way too many.
I’m not aware of them being any higher or lower than any other country (basically for lack of research) Do you have any statistics or studies that show Taiwan has a disproportionate amount of eating disorders compared to the Western world?[/quote]
No, because like other mental issues, it is not discussed. Just empirical, within arms’ reach kind of what I can see word of mouth. Like cancer patients, you start counting how many you know of, and go like, froggers, way too many.[/quote]
Not saying you’re wrong because they very well might, but a theory that Taiwanese people have abnormally high eating disorder rates should probably be backed by something a little more concrete than lunchroom observations. And it certainly doesn’t add to the broader point you were making on why Taiwanese people are on average thinner than Westerners. Eating disorder assumptions aside, it’s simply because they eat fewer calories than Westerners.
More than Westerners, I´d specify Western diet. In my over two decades here, I have seen ‘also empirical evidence’ an increase in women who look like Icon and even go beyond Icon, up to twice and even thrice Icon.
EDIT
Actually, I do remember there was some kind of study in the increase in local overweight kids and they were indeed blaming it on Western diets 'our fast food, they claimed, not the bread/sweets increase
I’m not sure Taiwanese are necessarily thinner unless you are only using the actual physical weight. I’m a large guy in Taiwan (and normal in the US) at 70-75 kgs because I have broader shoulders and hips than many. So these pot-bellied short guys are deceptively smaller than myself. If we had body fat % data I wouldn’t be surprised if Taiwanese are actually fatter than Americans (a difficult task).
There’s no question the younger generation is getting heavier. I’ve been here almost nine years now and the change is very noticeable. It won’t be more than a generation or two until Taiwan catches up with the West in obesity percentages. As of now though I would definitely say they are still well below the Western numbers.
You make an interesting point though about the body fat percentage. I think you’re right, that would bring them in a lot closer. The Taiwanese, both men and women don’t have much in the way of muscle mass so although they often times look leaner, I would imagine they are no more fit than the average Westerner. I look pretty lean, but then I tell them I actually weigh 83 kg and their jaw drops. They’re like: But aren’t men supposed to weigh 65 kg and woman 50 kg? 
Exercise is not that bad. Beats the alternative.
I like that 
Along the same line as: “Being healthy isn’t hard. It’s being unhealthy that’s hard”
I’ve definitely noticed a LOT more overweight people in Taiwan. It might be selective memory (or selective attention), but I don’t remember seeing this 10 years ago. It does get talked about: the gubmint occasionally does a bit of hand-wringing on the subject of obesity and metabolic disorder, but they don’t seem inclined to do anything about it.
Peter Attia did a piece on this a while back:
How do some cultures stay lean while still consuming high amounts of carbohydrates?
Apart from his point about sugar and lower absolute intake, I suggest the short answer to his question is, “they don’t”. The average 50-year-old Taiwanese, male or female, is pretty badly out of shape. Not as bad as, say, the average Briton or American, but still pretty wrecked. Filipinos, who eat enormous platefuls of rice (in contrast to the modest Taiwan-style bowlful) and gorge on sweets, sodas, and cakes, have a sky-high rate of obesity and diabetes. Virtually everyone over 30 is fat.
Notice also that there is no such thing as a “Taiwanese diet”. Watch the stick-thin girls eat in a restaurant: they often just pick at the rice or leave it entirely. Vegetarian food here is bloody awful - full of sugar and flavourings - but it’s still mostly vegetables, and vegetarians tend to like their brown rice. A lot of young kids like their ‘western’ food - sodas and burgers - and they get fat, same as Americans do. There are a lot of international influences (Korean, Japanese, Thai etc) and everyone has their preferences. So there’s a lot of variation.
The reason (IMO) Americans are fatter is really quite simple: fattening food is much too cheap, thanks to subsidies, a lax regulatory environment, and the legacy of Ancel Keys, which allows food manufacturers to declare that their breakfast cereal is “healthy” on the basis that it’s “low in cholesterol”, despite being high in starch and sugar.
Yup. I totally don’t get people who have “no time” to eat good food or do some exercise, or who think it’s purgatory. Is it really much more enjoyable getting out of breath on the stairs (or on the job)? Or taking pills every day to control your self-inflicted diabetes? It’s weird.
I never understood the “no time” crowd either. If you’ve got time to bake a cake, you’ve got time to exercise. It only takes 10 minutes to break a sweat, anyway. You don’t even need 1 hour a day.
Along with a sugary diet, I think soy is one of the culprits for the health crisis in the Philipines.
Do you mean fillers and meat substitutes? I know processed soybeans (in large amounts) have been tentatively linked to various diseases, but the diabetes epidemic there is undoubtedly a result of massive amounts of sugar (and cakes, cookies, etc) in the diet. They even add sugar to spaghetti sauce, FFS.
And since HIIT has been proven time and again to be one of, if not the best choice for exercise routines, it brings that “time required for a workout” number in a lot closer to something that everybody should be able to accommodate fairly easily.
When I lift weights or go for a run, it takes me an hour and a half of workout time, and probably 30 minutes of stretching and changeroom / shower time after. I can totally see why people could say they don’t have 2 hours in the day for workouts. I do it because I enjoy it, but it’s definitely a time suck.
But just as effective would be a 15-30 minute HIIT workout with a stretch and shower afterwards, bring it in at well under an hour. Who doesn’t have 1 spare hour in a day so they don’t live the last 3 decades of their life in discomfort? Come on…
Yes it’s disgusting. I never had a sweet tooth. Sugar will be the main culprit, but soy can wreck your hormones, cause depression and gut problems and generally doesn’t help as a staple. It’s been foisted on people as a fake health food.
I know I’m generalizing, but I always found some Philippinos to be some of the most emotionally unstable people I’ve met in Asia. They are a lot of fun to hang around with, but very different from the Taiwanese, who come across as more stable, at least on the surface. Sorry, if I’m offending anyone, it’s just what I’ve observed in some of the Philipinos I’ve met.
You mentioned something about a business trip you made there, IIRC. I wonder how much their diet plays a part in their emotional make-up. It can’t be easy over there because poverty can force poor dietary choices onto people…
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16897732.php
http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20040803/soy-benefits-type-2-diabetes
To be honest, I do not have it in me to exercise. I was a sickly child and my mother forbade any activities that required action… which meant as soon as I was not on her sights I was climbing trees and racing down grassy hills. Swam a lot since 3 months old -they just dumped you by the sea and the adults drank beer while you raided lobster nets. There was no active sports encouragement for women in my culture, mostly we watch guys play soccer. Wanna exercise? Grab a broom, do some laundry. But “waste” time in aerobics (it was the 80s) and other stuff? Ladies did ballet. In college I took biking, down grassy hills and landing face first in mud. That was no exercise to me. Self defense, too. Now that was fun. The most structured, labeled “exercise” I’ve done has been in Taiwan, like really planning and going to the gym and having a trainer and a plan and stuff. No fun at all. Me no likey.
As to sugar and stuff, a having a similar diet as Filipinos, there is just too much artificial stuff -labeled as modern and cool, like sodas and KoolAid- which is cheaper, and lots of starches and fried stuff. The only exercise, as said before, is running after the bus, walking miles to the bus, or avoiding thieves. The kind of in touch with nature stuff might be available for kids but adults also do not have the chance/cultural mandate like Taiwan plus a lot of drinking is involved -to forget the pains of being under someone’s foot and the inequalities that keep you there.