An interesting outlook. I’m not as far left as these people, but I agree with them about quite a bit and will be fine with Bernie
What the Left, center or otherwise, have been getting wrong since 2016 is they haven’t accepted this:
Until they do, ahem, wake up to reality, and reform themselves quickly then I can’t see them doing very well in 2020.
Finding excuses in Russian interference, the Electoral College, deplorables in fly-over America simply isn’t helping. I can’t see them extracting themselves from identity politics, so I think they will get their asses kicked again.
Where he will also be forced to rule via EO, as the Congress doesn’t make or pass laws no mo.
“the willful failure of the Democratic Party. Again and again, they fall on their face. There’s some kind of Freudian, masochistic thing they have where they get off on publicly humiliating themselves.”
“Khachiyan takes a refreshingly liberal line: ‘You should be able to hate and hatred should be protected, as long as it doesn’t spill over into physical violence.’ ‘There’s this idea that we live in a white supremacist country when we fundamentally don’t’”
“‘Antifa have manufactured a threat to have some semblance of an identity’, she says. ‘All these people who say they are anti-fascist don’t know what it means to be persecuted.’”
some good quotes
too bad they are in extreme extreme minority therein
I’m afraid you can only pick between one of these two, because if you don’t consider yourself as “far left” you may want to rethink your support for a guy who was treated as a useful idiot by the Soviets in the 80s and turned out to be a fan of the Soviet Union, Venezuela and all that sort of nonsense.
There is so much on the line with the elections in 2020. If the Democrat nominee has coattails then the Democrats may pull off additional gains in Congress and in state legislatures. They’ll be in position to control redistricting legislation in 2021, the consequences of which both parties will live with until 2031.
It’s amazing to watch Democrats openly support free healthcare for illegal immigrants, open borders, tax hikes, antifa, and war with Iran - and that’s on top of their identity politics nonsense. It’s a huge wager and the stakes are very high for them.
Democrats are either convinced they’re going to win and that mistakes don’t matter, or they’re mad as hatters. So far it’s really hard to see a credible path back to the mainstream for any of the 20+ POTUS candidates, who’ve all made rash statements and staked out positions that have appeal only to the far left. I just hope that when/if they lose in 2020 they’re finally willing to do a bit of soul-searching, and return to the adult section of civic life.
I think out of all the Dems running, Bernie is the only one I wouldn’t be fine with. I wouldn’t be happy if Harris or Booker won, but I wouldn’t feel like it’s the end of the world. Bernie imo would destroy everything. He is a full blown socialist.
“The left’s excesses and efforts to silence reasonable debate through political correctness arguably helped to spawn the current backlash on the right. But even if that’s true, the minority identity politics of the left is not ultimately as dangerous as the majority identity politics—the ethno-nationalism—of the right…”
Electoral College: Agreed. Dems complaining about this just sour grapes. Selective outrage is not a good look. A lot like Trumpistas pretending they hated the 2 party system and ‘neo liberalism’ for 10 minutes. Neither bothered them when the Koch Brothers were ruling the United States under W, but clearly these things don’t bother them as long as its one of their clique. Vintage hypocrisy.
Deplorables: Stupid comment from a bad politician but I don’t hear any current candidates discussing this. Trumpistas remind me of Red Sox fans when they finally beat the Yankees, or like they won an argument with dad for the first time. Move on already.
Russians: How does one major political party NOT care about this? It’s weird to see this as an ‘excuse’. The Dems lost the last election because they ran a putrid campaign but this would not mitigate concerns of Americans that love their nation about interference from a foreign power in our political system. If you’ve read the Muller report there’s plenty of reasons for concern and that concern is bi partisan…
Trumpistas love identity politics. Just the majoritarian kind.
Elections aren’t won with the minoritarian kind.
Oh stop it and talk like an adult. What’s next Trumptards? Just grow up and speak like an adult, his name is Trump, not Drumpf, or whatever twist you want to throw on it.
Unless you’re a ethno nationalist like a Nazi, people on the right condemn this kind of politics. Tell me how many on the left feels the same way about socialism and such?
Minority identity politics is how ethno nationalism works anyways. Attribution of group fault and guilt, is how the holocaust started. This whole white male oppression rhetoric is the same as blaming Jews for everything. Same thing.
It’s interesting how I’m putting forward an idea critical of the left and right simulatneously and yet here we are. I never said Drumpf FFS. Who are you even talking to? Did you bother to read the article I put up, which is very critical of the left?
At least one poster here, BD, finally acknolwedged that the right is engaging in identity politics as well, just an ethno-nationalist type. Let’s see if you’re grown up enough to admit that as well.
"If unifying everyone behind a march is hard, unifying everyone around a political agenda for electoral success is even harder. The predicament of the Democrats in Virginia—whether to fire accused racists or an accused sexual assaulter—is instructive. So are the attacks on Beto O’Rourke’s white privilege. It shows that the game of identity politics requires such a high level of purity and conformity on so many dimensions that it becomes extremely difficult to find one leader who can please everyone. Ultimately, identity politics self-destructs by devouring its own. As Mark Lilla has noted, the left’s identity politics can’t win elections, only lose them.
So the left’s identity-politics danger is limited because its self-destructiveness makes it weirdly self-correcting, although whether it can come to its senses before the next election is anybody’s guess.
Majoritarian identity politics does not suffer from the same inner contradictions, on the other hand. The right does not need to pull together multiple unwieldy tribes with disparate interests to advance its ends. It has enough numbers in one tribe with overlapping identities of race and religion to launch a coherent and credible populist ethno-nationalism, as Trump’s has shown. If tribal politics becomes the game in America, the right’s mono-tribalism is much more powerful and dangerous than the left’s multi-tribalism.
Princeton Univeristy’s Jan-Werner Mueller has brilliantly pointed out that this sort of populism isn’t so much against elites as it is against pluralism. A populist demagogue can claim to represent “the people” but not mean all the people, only the “real people” who back him. He makes it morally acceptable to exclude the others from the state’s protection and patronage. Trump, Muller notes, has made many Americans see themselves as part of a white identity movement. Christian whites are the in-group. And who are members of the out-group? Hispanics, Muslims, portions of the media that don’t cheerlead for him, and immigrants—not just undocumented ones but even legal ones from “shithole” countries.
What are the dangers of this movement?
This country maintained its cool in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 because President George W. Bush avoided even a hint of collective punishment. To the contrary, he went to a mosque and prayed for peace. This is in sharp contrast to, say, a country like India, where Hindu mobs in 1984 killed thousands of Sikhs in a mini-pogrom and in 2002 killed a similar number of Muslims. In Trump’s America, it is an open question as to what an aggrieved majority fed a steady diet of suspicion of the Other would do in the event of another terrorist attack. When minority identity politics overreaches, it lamentably forces Christians to bake cakes for gays. When a majority united by ethno-nationalistic passions does so, mass violence, often with the overt or covert complicity of the state, isn’t off-limits.
So how do we get rid of the identity politics of the left and the right and restore a civic nationalism committed to liberal democratic values?"
I read the entire article, I too could quote.
Ok, and do you agree with its conclusions about the right wing also engaging in identity politics as well?
Yes, but unless you’re a neo Nazi/ethno nationalist, no one accepts it on the right.
You would probably say many of us are on the right here, not one of us agrees with ethno nationalist ideas like neo nazism. Not one.
Yes, but I don’t see the greater danger from the right, those in the middle recognize and distance themselves from right wing extremism, the problem I have is the left is not self checking extremism from the left.
What about those crazy anti-identity-politics commies in the article? They seem pretty cool. It’s a weird day when I identify with a couple of commies more than any of these other lunatics.
“Yes, but I don’t see the greater danger from the right”
I think that’s our stumbling point here, among others.