it also advises other schools to “be cautious and not be deceived by them.” Some pretty intense implying going on there. That seems to be a pretty clear statement that they are “deceitful.” Thanks for the legal brekdown, MT, though don’t you think, considering that last sentence, that by U.S. standards it would be considered libel, unless of course it could be proven that they were indeed, “deceitful.”
Agree that, even were it libel, probaly nothing would happen should these blokes decide to go the legal route, though I’d imagine I’d be pretty pissed about this if I were them, no matter how “deceitful” my behaviour might be (unless of course I was stealing, or pedophiling, in which case I guess I would expect and deserve it). I would probably be looking into some alternate means of extracting compensation for my humiliation.
The fact that a bushiban owner would resort to such a thing hardly suprises me, but the thought that a newspaper would accept such a “memorandum” and publish it is disturbing to say the least.
Heck, I don’t know, all I know is that defamation requires a false statement of material fact, not opinion and I believe not inference, suggestion or implication.
Related to DG’s statement, employers in the US should be very careful about writing letters of recommendation, or condemnation, regarding former employees or even discussing them with prospective employers. Former employers have lost lawsuits for being too positive about former employees and they have lost suits for being too negative. So, in the US anyway, the wise former employer will keep its mouth shut.
What constitutes defamation varies greatly from country to country, as does the burden of proving it. In many countries, its basic elements are something along the lines of the publication of a false statement that is likely to have the effect of harming the reputation of the person it refers to.
I’m not sure what test is applied under Taiwanese law to determine whether a statement is defamatory, but if it’s anything close to that (as I think it probably is), then I’d say there are possible grounds here for suing those who placed the ad, and the newspapers that published them, for defamation. I’m sure it could be persuasively argued that the words of the ad are such as to harm the two teachers’ reputation or standing in Taiwan. If the school were able to prove that the teachers had done something so dishonest or bad as to justify the school’s warning, then there’d be no case. But if they fired them just because of a dispute of some kind which in no way justified the imputations made in their ad, then they might be in trouble.
If something similar were published about any politician here, you can bet he or she would be rushing off to the nearest court to file a suit for defamation against all involved.
wait a minute, guys. my source in taipei, the GF, tells me that an ad against the two guys appeares on the front page , FRONT PAGE, of both the CHINA POST and the Taiwan NEWs today, Friday! It is an ad at the top of the page, front page. That costs beaucoup bucks, as we say in Quebec, my hometown. Moolah.
So the TT has an ad on page 4, while the TN and the CP have front page ads on top of page. This alchohlic angry buxie owner, whatever his name is, deserves to be reported by the local newspapers there. WHO is HE?
Anyone else every work there? WOW. Tell those two fired guys to come to Korea, lots of teaching jobs here, but kind cold at night. Shit! Even the SOJU can’t warm me up enough. I am asking the GF to come over for a 6 month trial period, but her parents loathe me. For good reason.!~
Make an honest woman of her, Formosa. Then her folks might grow to like you. And you’ll have something warm and cuddly to take with you wherever you go.
One of the lawyer people should comment, but from my understanding, the two could file some kind of action themselves without having to pay for legal help (they would need translations of things and how to fill out forms and such). This would entail the school having to reply, which might not at first cost them money, but it would cost them time and make them wonder what was next.
If it were me, I’d go after these guys. The ad could certainly be construed to be willfully damaging to the abilities of the individuals to obtain work here.
By the way, the TT reporter for foriegn affairs called the school but they would not comment on the matter.
If I were one of those guys and were sure enough that I was innocent and had been unfairly victimized by the school, I’d instruct a local lawyer to write a very strong letter threatening to institute proceedings for defamation unless they published a conspicuous retraction and apology on the front pages of the three English newspapers on two successive days. It would cost them only a few thousand dollars, and they wouldn’t need to take it any further if it didn’t elicit the desired response – but at least it would be worth trying it as a bluff.
BUT, if the guys really had done something that could reasonably be regarded as justifying what the school wrote, then they’d be wasting their money and had better keep their heads down and just hope they might still have some chance to get another job in spite of it.
If I was from Finland then nothing that anyone does would have the slightest impact on my ability to get a legal job teching English, would it? (Unless of course I had some high-falutin’ qualification.) Presumably they weren’t employed legally though? They would now be off on a visa run, and presumably black-listed if so.
So why is this buxi-owner spending all this money then? There has to be a reason. You don’t just turn up at work drunk to get this kind of crap. They must have done something pretty major to have pissed the guy off.
On the other hand, whatever it was presumably wasn’t illegal. Or there is some other reason why they aren’t now on the run from the police.
I’m guessing they’ve talked him into some illegal scheme that he has put up money for, and run off with it. Or else impugned his honor in some kind of wife-and-daughter orgy. And more power to them both I say, if that’s the case.
I noticed that they put an ad on Tealit recently looking for new teachers, and it says their school is located near Kuting MRT station, above the Starbucks. I say we recruit Ironlady to go raid their school (she’s good at that!) and see what kind of information we can dig up …
[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]One of the lawyer people should comment, but from my understanding, the two could file some kind of action themselves without having to pay for legal help (they would need translations of things and how to fill out forms and such). This would entail the school having to reply, which might not at first cost them money, but it would cost them time and make them wonder what was next.
If it were me, I’d go after these guys. The ad could certainly be construed to be willfully damaging to the abilities of the individuals to obtain work here.
By the way, the TT reporter for foreign affairs called the school but they would not comment on the matter.[/quote]
Oooh! Ooooh! Is somebody going to write themselves some “cun2zheng4 xin4han2”? Those are the great Post Office letters that have employers very, very nervous when they receive them. (Anyone needing more information on how to intimidate people using these letters, see the old “Glossika” thread… ) Many companies prefer to “settle” rather than letting a sequence of 2 or 3 of these letters lead to real legal action.
I think the foreign affairs reporter for the TT should now make this a story. How about an interview with the two blokes, plus the “no comment” from the school? Turn about is fair play. Expose! Expose! Unscrupulous buxiban exposed…
Yee-hah! Let’s you, me, and my mysterious former back-pack carrying accomplice head over there in the guise of “interviewing” for those positions…I’m free Monday…and I plan to be in Taipei anyway…
The Guting Spontaneous is, I think, a different franchise - but I’ve had dealings with them and don’t have the highest of opinions. Hope you have fun, Ironlady. PM me and I’ll put you in touch with one of their former employees who was asking me how he could get in touch with the amazing Mr Hartzell. …
Taiwan has many legal stipulations that require public notices to release victims of crime from liability. If a Taiwanese person looses their driver’s license, for example, they have to place a notice in a newspaper as part of the process that releases them from crimes that could be committed by someone fraudulantly using their license as ID. The same is true even if I loose the ID that my university has issued me.
In fact, everyone who reads English newspapers has seen notices of this sort posted about Southeast Asian domestic workers and factory employees who have run away. It’s interesting to see the difference in response when the skin colour changes.
ScottSommers wrote[quote]In fact, everyone who reads English newspapers has seen notices of this sort posted about Southeast Asian domestic workers and factory employees who have run away. It’s interesting to see the difference in response when the skin colour changes.[/quote]Totally dissagree there Scott. Link to where you see the difference and I’ll retract from calling you an ignoramous
The branch in question is infact in Taipei. A friend of mine is familiar with theschol and this is what I got from him/her. The two guys were teachers at one point but came up with a scheme to get themselves out of the classroom and into the office by building a program(English) that would be contracted out to various companies and businesses. They were apparently business majors and believed they could do better with this new idea rather than in a classroom of kids. So they built a plan and made some contacts but never landed a contract, including one that was to be a very lucrative one with a local TV station. I guess over time the laoban grew tired of this inability to get contracts and released(fired) them. I understand they contacted a lawyer about their firing and then went back to the school and threatened to sue over this. I guess this is where the school in question felt that these two blokes couldn’t be trusted and thus took out ads in the papers to let all of Taiwan know this. I know this story is pretty(very) vague but it’s all i could get out of my contact and I thought it was better than nothing. As a side to all of this, apparently after their firings, these two guys where going around still pitching their plan to companies but using the the name cards that the school had originally given them. Thus, using the schools name for their marketing, but with their own phone numbers. Again, all this is info I got from a contact who is familiar with the said school. If any of the above info is incorrect then please correct where mistakes are made.
I heard a story last year about a couple of Canadian bloks doing kinds the same thing. They would approach a school and offer to make this amazing program and then would do a runner when they got the first installment of payment. Heard that they did quite well.
I thought that only people from countries like the USA and Australia could get visas from English schools. One of these guys was from Finland right?! How was it that he was working at this school? It makes me wonder if he even had a the legal right to be working there. Any news about that?
Does anyone hereknow whats going on with this or if there has been any further developments?I would have thought an incident of this magnitude would have recieved much more public uproar amongst the international community in Taiwan.If this happened in America it would recieve a great deal of media attention.Your comments are always welcome.
