Being charged and being guilty is very different under US law. Do you have a final disposition of this case?
If the store owner is/has been found guilty then follow the proscribed laws. This is a matter, straw buyers, which ATF and store owners are very aware of and working to prevent.
This problem, smuggling guns south to Ole Mehico, is a very historic one. Different times…different customers.
And Brian, just a q,…why the “…white American gun shops…” qualifier?..lol…but yes, thanks to the election of PEBO gun sales have soared in the USA…
Never heard of it. What evidence can you present that this is a trustworthy source of information?
Michael Webster, Investigative Reporter?
Never heard of him. His resume smacks of heavy self-promotional padding, though.
Sounds like a gross exaggeration. Where did that number come from. Evidence?
Yes, it’s a VERY serious problem. VERY. But I’d prefer not to trust just any old exaggeration printed by self-promoting pundits on some obscure web page.[/quote]
DB, you make it sound as though my believing or disbelieving this article has consequences or something.
Anyway, I’d love to hear from more American border-dwellers with personal experience.
Police seize more than $1 million from Phish fans
Police said Monday they confiscated about $1.2 million in illegal drugs and more than $68,000 in cash from concertgoers. Authorities also arrested 194 Phish fans during the three-night celebration of the band’s return to the stage after a nearly five-year absence.
Nicolas Sarkozy and Felipe Calderon discussed the case of Florence Cassez
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has pledged to help Mexico in its battle against organised crime during an official visit to the country.
Being charged and being guilty is very different under US law. Do you have a final disposition of this case?
If the store owner is/has been found guilty then follow the proscribed laws. This is a matter, straw buyers, which ATF and store owners are very aware of and working to prevent.
This problem, smuggling guns south to Ole Mehico, is a very historic one. Different times…different customers.
And Brian, just a q,…why the “…white American gun shops…” qualifier?..lol…but yes, thanks to the election of PEBO gun sales have soared in the USA… [/quote]
You are correct that he hasn’t been proven guilty. The trial has started and is expected to last about two weeks.
[quote=“The Arizona Republic”]The trial of a Valley gun store owner accused of supplying firearms to Mexican drug cartels opened Monday with testimony from a federal agent who described how the government seized AK-47s during a sting operation.
Special agent Hope McAllister of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was the prosecution’s first witness against George Iknadosian, owner of X-Caliber Guns in north Phoenix. McAllister outlined gun-trafficking methods and displayed some of the “preferred weapons” allegedly purchased for Mexican gangsters.[/quote]
In a case where the store owners called the police because they were suspicious, and correctly so, read below. The screwy thing is that if the shop owners were wrong, they opened themselves up to a potentially huge lawsuit for profiling.
[quote=“Wall Street Journal piece updated”]Gun stores run the risk of lawsuits if they’re deemed to be “profiling” – refusing to sell guns to young Latinos, for instance. Mr. Logan concedes he has seen men enter gun stores, point out to a girlfriend what weapon they should buy, and leave. The girlfriend fills out the form, attesting the firearm is for her personal use.
Getting bullets is even easier. Gun dealers here must report anyone purchasing more than one handgun during a single five-day period, but there is no restriction on ammunition. Last Christmas Eve, salesmen at Cabela’s Sporting Goods store in Phoenix were surprised when two Hispanic men bought 24,000 rounds of bullets – the same caliber used in FN “cop killers.” They paid in cash – more than $10,000. When the buyers were seen loading their purchase into a car with Mexican license plates, store managers summoned police. Authorities found 12 FN rifles and three “cop killer” handguns.
Police arrested the buyers, but only because they were foreign nationals, thus forbidden from possessing arms in the U.S.[/quote]
lbksig -
Like I said earlier…“Due diligence” on the retailers part. Looks like it can be used against them by a biased DAs office. Lose-Lose situation.
By the way…WTF are …FN “cop killers.” …and …“three “cop killer” handguns.”…more ignorant biased reporting by the media. Another example of biased agenda driven reporting…
[quote]Bodies stacked in the morgues of Mexico’s border cities tell the story of an escalating drug war. Drug violence claimed 6,290 people last year, double the previous year, and more than 1,000 in the first eight weeks of 2009.
Ciudad Juarez, a city of 1.3 million across the border from El Paso, Texas, has a modern, estimated $15 million morgue and crime lab thanks to international support after another notorious spate of killings – the Women of Juarez. More than 400 women have been raped, strangled and dumped in the desert since 1993.[/quote]
These same gangs are building a body count in US cities also.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]lbksig -
Like I said earlier…“Due diligence” on the retailers part. Looks like it can be used against them by a biased DAs office. Lose-Lose situation.
By the way…WTF are …FN “cop killers.” …and …“three “cop killer” handguns.”…more ignorant biased reporting by the media. Another example of biased agenda driven reporting…
[/quote]
I agree with you. If the retailers are required by law to watch out for straw buyers then there should be a legal shield for them. Making the operator of the store solely responsible for enforcing the rules and then making them solely liable to discrimination lawsuits is wrong. If you don’t want them selling to straw buyers then a little situational awareness is in order. Given that the law doesn’t allow for sales to non-citizens, states along border areas should be allowed to be more discriminatory when requiring proof of citizenship.
“Cop killers” sounds to be a snappy media title like “Saturday night specials” was. The pistols in question have been quoted as Colt .38 Super. The rifles that are quoted in the news reports on the case are AK-47’s. I’m not sure which FN rifle is the “cop killer”. The FN family of rifles shoots 7.62 or 5.56 NATO rounds. Unless the police in Mexico are wearing military spec body armor then they won’t be able to stop military spec rounds. I would guess they wear stuff similar to the US, which can only stop standard handgun rounds.
On one of the news write ups they said that the SKS is a popular weapon to be smuggled south. I don’t get that. Why would anyone want to buy an old semi-automatic when you can buy AK’s?
Why the SKS?
Several possible reasons come to mind.
Cheap. Dependable. Easy to use and maintain. Cheap. Uses easy to find ammo. Lots of part available. Cheap. A darn good gun.
SKSs have found a niche in sport shooters and hunters in the USA. Frankly, its a simple, well-made design that works.
About the .38 Super. This caliber is very popular south of the border. It was a caliber that was acceptable to Mexican, and other middle and South American governments, who did not want to risk the .45 acp caliber getting into the hands of the populace. So some enterprising salesman convinced them that a buffer up .38 caliber was just the ticket. So the .38 Super was born. Thousands of Colt Model 1911s were chambered for this round, easily done, and sold to buyers down south. Its an accurate and good round. But almost…almost…unknown in the US. Been around for a very long time. Just not that popular in the US where the .45 acp has been the caliber of choice for the model 1911.
I’ve seen some very beautifully engraved 1911s down south. In .38 Super.
From what I understand and I could very well be wrong. Standard kevlar body armor protects you from pistols and shotguns, but is useless against rifles unless you use the additional plates.
Can someone please tell me if that is right or not?
I mean I know it’s the MSM and they don’t want the facts get in the way of a story that they want to write. Is the Mexican drug wars getting any play in the US? You think this one would be a no-brainer.
[quote=“Okami”]From what I understand and I could very well be wrong. Standard kevlar body armor protects you from pistols and shotguns, but is useless against rifles unless you use the additional plates.
Can someone please tell me if that is right or not?
[/quote]
You are correct. There are several levels of Kevlar body armor. They rate from type I to type IV. Type III protects against rifles and type IV protects against AP (Armor Piercing) rounds. The problem with type III and IV is that they are heavy as hell to wear for long periods of time. Ordinary police officers don’t often have to respond to rifle wielding criminals but instead have to worry about handguns.
For example, Tactical Armor by US Armor markets themselves to US police departments. They have the option of the standard level III or an upgrade to level IV with 8" X 10" plates or 10" X 12" plates. Standard level III protects against rounds up to 9mm or .357 magnum. Their extremely slow loading PDF has a feature page with the following:
[quote]
I mean I know it’s the MSM and they don’t want the facts get in the way of a story that they want to write. Is the Mexican drug wars getting any play in the US? You think this one would be a no-brainer.[/quote]
Yes it does in the border states. Quite often there are shootouts between border patrol and smugglers who are running drugs or people across the border.
Police officers drive past a burning police vehicle in Zihuatanejo, Mexico. In a three-week period, five grenade attacks were launched on police patrols and stations.
excert:
"The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico’s drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.
Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
“The enhanced weaponry represents a wide sampling from the international arms bazaar, with grenades and launchers produced by U.S., South Korean, Israeli, Spanish or former Soviet bloc manufacturers. Many had been sold legally to governments, including Mexico’s, and then were diverted onto the black market. Some may be sold directly to the traffickers by corrupt elements of national armies, authorities and experts say.”[/quote]
The articles details the increase in mil grade weaponry that the drug cartels have brought into the game.
Quite simply, the police in Mexico are out-gunned. And the Mexican military is controlled by corrupt officers and politicians.
I pity the people of Mexico.
Grenades are covered under the category “destructive device” in the 1934 National Firearms Act. You can buy them in the US but it’s very difficult and very expensive.
You have to get:
Permission from the ATF
Get an extensive background check
Get a signature from your local sheriff or police station stating that they know you will be purchasing a Title II weapon.
Fully register the firearm (in this case a grenade falls under the firearm category).
Get written permission from the ATF if you plan on taking it across state lines
Pay a tax.
Given all those steps, it’s easier just to get the big stuff shipped to a Central American country and sneak it over the border. That or smuggle it in by sea. Dealers won’t sell to straw buyers because of the criminal penalties they can be sentenced to (10 years in prison plus US 10k fine per item sold). Non citizens won’t be able to buy this stuff in the US. They’ll just steal it while its being shipped.
Of course I am speaking in the “legal” sense and referring to drug cartel members and/or buyers for this group.
Military ordinance is not legally available to persons with out an approved license or end-user certificate.
I do not know how far the parsing quibblers will want to take this but I think you understand what I’m saying.
Grenades are covered under the category “destructive device” in the 1934 National Firearms Act. You can buy them in the US but it’s very difficult and very expensive.
You have to get:
Permission from the ATF
Get an extensive background check
Get a signature from your local sheriff or police station stating that they know you will be purchasing a Title II weapon.
Fully register the firearm (in this case a grenade falls under the firearm category).
Get written permission from the ATF if you plan on taking it across state lines
Pay a tax.
Given all those steps, it’s easier just to get the big stuff shipped to a Central American country and sneak it over the border. That or smuggle it in by sea. Dealers won’t sell to straw buyers because of the criminal penalties they can be sentenced to (10 years in prison plus US 10k fine per item sold). Non citizens won’t be able to buy this stuff in the US. They’ll just steal it while its being shipped.[/quote]
The intersting thing is that these weapons from Central America are brand new, latest models. This is far more advanced than the leftovers from the 80’s wars or what the local armies use. So I cannot see the reason why they can possibly justify purchasing this legally, even to keep up with the “bad guys”.
The money these cartel groups have is simply mindboggling, not to say the level of escalation between the rival Mexican and colombian cartels for market in the States and turf between gangs. Buy off the politicians,. buy off the officials, open ports, no truck inspections… sigh
