Michael Brown Shot and Killed in St. Louis

Politics US Politics
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Thus far, the two major political parties are united in their disgust with the police actions in Ferguson. Senator Ted Cruz, one of the most conservative members of Congress, had this to say:

[quote=“Senator Ted Cruz”]“Together, we should all mourn the loss of life in Ferguson, Missouri, and work to keep our communities safe and free. Police officers risk their lives every day to keep us safe, and any time a young man loses his life in a confrontation with law enforcement, it is tragic,” Cruz said in a Facebook statement. “Civil liberties must be protected, but violence is not the answer. Once the unrest is brought to an end, we should examine carefully what happened to ensure that justice is served.”[

Cruz criticized the detention of reporters Wesley Lowery of The Washington Post and Huffington Post reporter Ryan Reilly of The Huffington Post on Wednesday. The two journalists were arrested at a McDonald’s in Ferguson on Wednesday night in a high-profile fashion that has sparked heated reactions toward the police and the news media.

“Reporters should never be detained — a free press is too important — simply for doing their jobs,” Cruz said.[/quote]

Senator Rand Paul, the champion of the libertarian wing of the Republican Party, had this to say:

[quote=“Senator Rand Paul”]“Given the racial disparities in our criminal justice system, it is impossible for African-Americans not to feel like their government is particularly targeting them,” Paul wrote. “This is part of the anguish we are seeing in the tragic events outside of St. Louis, Missouri. It is what the citizens of Ferguson feel when there is an unfortunate and heartbreaking shooting like the incident with Michael Brown.”

“When you couple this militarization of law enforcement with an erosion of civil liberties and due process that allows the police to become judge and jury—national security letters, no-knock searches, broad general warrants, pre-conviction forfeiture—we begin to have a very serious problem on our hands,” Paul said.[/quote]

politico.com/story/2014/08/c … ml?hp=t2_3

Good on these gentlemen for standing up for the citizens of Ferguson, and the reporters, in the face of clear police brutality. President Obama has spoken twice about Ferguson. Here is what he said today:

[quote=“President Barack Obama”]“There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting,” Obama said. “There is also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protests or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully expressing their First Amendment rights.”

“Here in the United States of America, police should not be bullying or arresting journalists who are just trying to do their jobs and report to the American people on what they are seeing on the ground,” Obama said. “Put simply, we all need to hold ourselves to a high standard, particularly those of us in positions of authority.”[/quote]

politico.com/story/2014/08/f … z3AOna6WKj

This is a rare moment of bipartisan unity in the face of a national tragedy. One expects that when natural disasters strike, but this is different. I know it won’t last long, but it’s great to see the government standing united.

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Breaking news: Missouri Governor Jay Nixon has removed the St. Louis County Sheriff’s Department from the investigation, and has instead placed the state police in charge. Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol is now in command. Captain Johnson is black, and grew up in the community.

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The Michael Brown story is not quite as clean as they’re going to make out. My guess is they’ll post pics of him at a really young age, say how innocent he was and then scrub all his social media ala Trayvon Martin.

I grew up in that area. This ain’t nothing but a swipe by the shakedown brigade. Maybe Ferguson too can have their mayor engage in high speed chase with shoot outs by their mayor or have another mayor shot in a park at 2-3am in the morning. I also liked how one had his voters chauffeured in limos with chocolate and champagne. He won by the way despite being indited.

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Can someone translate this?

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[quote=“Okami”]The Michael Brown story is not quite as clean as they’re going to make out. My guess is they’ll post pics of him at a really young age, say how innocent he was and then scrub all his social media ala Trayvon Martin.

[/quote]

OK, so you are saying he deserved to be killed by the police then?

Because that bit of RWBHardery posted above sounds like some butthurtness. Lets make the police judge, jury and executioner. AND while we are at it, lets ignore any positives in his life, talk about his bad side, because you know, he is dead, so lets shit all over him.

Great stuff.

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[quote=“Deuce Dropper”]The RWBHs might actually be onto something when they talking about arming yourselves to defend against the State. Obviously you’d lose in the arms race, but fakkin hell ,how is that kind of spending and ridiculous show of force a net positive?

America! FUCK YEAH!!![/quote]

Could you imagine what would happen if the people in Ferguson armed up the way the people at the Clive Bundy Ranch standoff did?

These people are being shot at and tear gassed for standing there with their hands up. Imagine if they had assault rifles and the massive weaponry that the gun nuts out in Nevada had…It would be a WAR.

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[quote=“Okami”]The Michael Brown story is not quite as clean as they’re going to make out. My guess is they’ll post pics of him at a really young age, say how innocent he was and then scrub all his social media ala Trayvon Martin.

I grew up in that area. This ain’t nothing but a swipe by the shakedown brigade. Maybe Ferguson too can have their mayor engage in high speed chase with shoot outs by their mayor or have another mayor shot in a park at 2-3am in the morning. I also liked how one had his voters chauffeured in limos with chocolate and champagne. He won by the way despite being indited.[/quote]

I grew up in that area as well. Born in St. Louis City proper, raised in Overland…not more than a couple miles away from where this is all happening. My family all lives there still. My brother and his wife packed their car with bottled water last night and took it to give to the protesters.

I have no idea what your post means.

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I’m still on the fence about this and trying to find out more.

The police shot an unarmed kid, fucked up and cause for anger, no doubt.

However the first candlelight vigil held about this, as far as I know uncontested by the police, degenerated into looting.

There are places in the States that basically have never recovered from urban rioting dating back to 1968. At that time the cops basically just cordoned neighborhoods off and said “fuck it.” That would be one easy option which would not be a problem from the standpoint of civil liberties I suppose but which could have serious long-lasting effects. Undoubtedly the authorities would be under criticism if that were the case for not doing anything. The police here seem to be taking a much more aggressive and difficult stand in the face of great and legitimate anger in order to protect public and private property. I doubt they could do it without encountering any problems. They may well be going too far in their methods from what I’ve seen, but overall there is a legitimate reason for what they’re doing. I don’t believe they’re doing it simply to shut down peaceful protest or harass journalists. As far as I know no one has been killed or seriously injured since the initial shooting. Have to go now but will be reading more later.

From what I’ve seen so far, I’m far more concerned by the initial shooting and other incidents like it.

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[quote=“Taiwanguy”][quote=“Okami”]The Michael Brown story is not quite as clean as they’re going to make out. My guess is they’ll post pics of him at a really young age, say how innocent he was and then scrub all his social media ala Trayvon Martin.

I grew up in that area. This ain’t nothing but a swipe by the shakedown brigade. Maybe Ferguson too can have their mayor engage in high speed chase with shoot outs by their mayor or have another mayor shot in a park at 2-3am in the morning. I also liked how one had his voters chauffeured in limos with chocolate and champagne. He won by the way despite being indited.[/quote]

I grew up in that area as well. Born in St. Louis City proper, raised in Overland…not more than a couple miles away from where this is all happening. My family all lives there still. My brother and his wife packed their car with bottled water last night and took it to give to the protesters.

I have no idea what your post means.[/quote]

its right wing fuckery, just sticking to the playbook.

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[quote=“Tempo Gain”]I’m still on the fence about this and trying to find out more.

The police shot an unarmed kid, fucked up and cause for anger, no doubt.

However the first candlelight vigil held about this, as far as I know uncontested by the police, degenerated into looting.

There are places in the States that basically have never recovered from urban rioting dating back to 1968. At that time the cops basically just cordoned neighborhoods off and said “fuck it.” That would be one easy option which would not be a problem from the standpoint of civil liberties I suppose but which could have serious long-lasting effects. Undoubtedly the authorities would be under criticism if that were the case for not doing anything. The police here seem to be taking a much more aggressive and difficult stand in the face of great and legitimate anger in order to protect public and private property. I doubt they could do it without encountering any problems. They may well be going too far in their methods from what I’ve seen, but overall there is a legitimate reason for what they’re doing. I don’t believe they’re doing it simply to shut down peaceful protest or harass journalists. As far as I know no one has been killed or seriously injured since the initial shooting. Have to go now but will be reading more later.

From what I’ve seen so far, I’m far more concerned by the initial shooting and other incidents like it.[/quote]

You’re on the fence because you clearly haven’t actually read about the situation. The first candlelight vigil did NOT degenerate into looting. That’s not even close to being accurate. The first night, there were large peaceful protests and there was a SMALL number of idiots that reacted stupidly and illegally. Two different things. In response, the police went all nutso and started teargassing and shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protesters in public areas for no reason. They were marching down the streets of residential areas in full riot gear, with armed vehicles and mounted weapons trained on innocent peaceful civilians. They shot teargas into the YARDS of citizens just because those people were standing on their own personal property, hands in the air, shouting chants of “Hands up, Don’t shoot!”

There is nothing to be on the fence about. The police exercised force FAR beyond that necessary to perform proper crowd control. They came with weapons drawn and pointed at innocent people.

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[quote=“Taiwanguy”][quote=“Tempo Gain”]I’m still on the fence about this and trying to find out more.

The police shot an unarmed kid, fucked up and cause for anger, no doubt.

However the first candlelight vigil held about this, as far as I know uncontested by the police, degenerated into looting.

There are places in the States that basically have never recovered from urban rioting dating back to 1968. At that time the cops basically just cordoned neighborhoods off and said “fuck it.” That would be one easy option which would not be a problem from the standpoint of civil liberties I suppose but which could have serious long-lasting effects. Undoubtedly the authorities would be under criticism if that were the case for not doing anything. The police here seem to be taking a much more aggressive and difficult stand in the face of great and legitimate anger in order to protect public and private property. I doubt they could do it without encountering any problems. They may well be going too far in their methods from what I’ve seen, but overall there is a legitimate reason for what they’re doing. I don’t believe they’re doing it simply to shut down peaceful protest or harass journalists. As far as I know no one has been killed or seriously injured since the initial shooting. Have to go now but will be reading more later.

From what I’ve seen so far, I’m far more concerned by the initial shooting and other incidents like it.[/quote]

You’re on the fence because you clearly haven’t actually read about the situation. The first candlelight vigil did NOT degenerate into looting. That’s not even close to being accurate. The first night, there were large peaceful protests and there was a SMALL number of idiots that reacted stupidly and illegally. Two different things. In response, the police went all nutso and started teargassing and shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protesters in public areas for no reason. They were marching down the streets of residential areas in full riot gear, with armed vehicles and mounted weapons trained on innocent peaceful civilians. The shot teargas into the YARDS of citizens just because those people were standing on their own personal property, hands in the air, shouting chants of “Hands up, Don’t shoot!”

There is nothing to be on the fence about. The police exercised force FAR beyond that necessary to perform proper crowd control. They came with weapons drawn and pointed at innocent people.[/quote]

In addition, let me add…there are no urban riots taking place now. There was a small amount of contained looting the first night. Today’s events just go to prove that any violence that WAS occurring was due to the abuses of power and authority that the Ferguson and St. Louis County Police Departments were engaging in. Now that the governor has (thankfully) relieved them of their duty here and turned the baton over to the State Highway Patrol, things are completely peaceful. The SHP showed up today in normal uniforms, without all the ridiculous military weapons, armor, and vehicles. Their presence was minimal…and everything was absolutely fine. The previous few days were the worst handling of protest and crowd control I’ve ever seen. It was pathetic.

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Even in areas such as Northern Ireland, where there was a true risk of being shot at or bombed, there was not this kind of attitude by the authorities. Yes, there was a military presence but the amount of hardware and the attitude towards members of the public was nowhere near as offensive, aggressive and disproportionate as what we are seeing here.

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I usually like your posts, Bernadette, but in this case I have to call bullshit.

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I just think the justification for the use of a militarized force against a largely unarmed population is uncalled for. The police are not being fire bombed or shot at. There are no molatov cocktails being used: it’s a peaceful. non militarized protest with no political leanings or history of violence, and yet our police turn up with kit the RUC could only have wished for.
I don’t want to get into the politics of Northern Ireland and I realize that this subject area could be very close to your heart; I’m merely drawing comparisons, as in my belief, I can see a very worrying trend occurring in the United States where parallels can be drawn between the government application of force against a non-violent population and current and past conflicts around the world where militarized use of force has been applied against known, established groups.
Sorry if any offence was caused.

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[quote=“Bernadette”]I just think the justification for the use of a militarized force against a largely unarmed population is uncalled for. The police are not being fire bombed or shot at. There are no molatov cocktails being used: it’s a peaceful. non militarized protest with no political leanings or history of violence, and yet our police turn up with kit the RUC could only have wished for.
I don’t want to get into the politics of Northern Ireland and I realize that this subject area could be very close to your heart; I’m merely drawing comparisons, as in my belief, I can see a very worrying trend occurring in the United States where parallels can be drawn between the government application of force against a non-violent population and current and past conflicts around the world where militarized use of force has been applied against known, established groups.
Sorry if any offence was caused.[/quote]

No offense caused, but maybe you should look up Bloody Sunday. That was a human rights protest. The authorities ended up shooting 26 protesters or bystanders, killing 13 (and another died a few months later). All of them were unarmed.

Here’s a link to who was killed and how: belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ … 41680.html

For example,

[quote] Bernard “Barney” McGuigan, 41

Was going to the aid of Patrick Doherty, waving a white handkerchief in his hand, when he was shot in the head with a single round. He died instantly.[/quote]

And a link to the results of the Saville inquiry: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saville_Inquiry

Google some images of the event and you’ll see that the authorities had substantial “hardware”.

Note that I am in no way downplaying what has been going on in Ferguson in recent days.

Again, no offense caused.

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I’m not sure I even have a heart anymore, boldly assuming I ever did, but if I do, intense concern for the well-being of my own butt probably occupies the core of it, and anyway my Northern Irish paternal ancestors were Protestant, but here are some snippets by a lady named Gail Sheehy, from a book called Passages, from around 1974, I think (the events described took place in 1972):

[quote]We were standing side by side in the sun, relaxed and triumphant after a civil rights march by the Catholics of Derry. We had been met by soldiers at the barricade; we had vomited tear gas and dragged those dented by rubber bullets back to safety.

“How do the paratroopers fire those gas canisters so far?” I asked.

“See them jammin’ their rifle butts against the ground?” the boy was saying when the steel slug tore into his mouth and ripped up the bridge of his nose and left of his face nothing but ground bone meal.

Below the balcony, British armoured cars began to plow into the crowd. Paratroopers jackknifed out of them with high-velocity rifles. They sprayed us with steel.

The boy without a face fell on top of me. An older man, walloped on the back of the neck with a rifle butt, stumbled up the stairs and collapsed upon us.

For nearly an hour the bullets kept coming. From the window I saw three boys rise from behind a barricade to make a run for it. They were cut down like dummies in a shooting gallery. So was the priest who followed them, waving a white handkerchief, and the old man who bent to say a prayer over them.

After the surprise massacre, I was one among trapped thousands cringing in the paper-walled bungalows of the Catholic ghetto. All exits from the city were sealed. Waiting was the only occupation. Waiting for the British army to perform a house-to-house search.[/quote]
randomhouse.ca/books/excerpt … 0345479228

Just so you’ll know, I didn’t post this to try and get your goat, Bernadette. You’re all right by me.

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Oh yeah, that doesn’t even cover the extremely intimidating tactics of the police and army during the troubles in N.Ireland, but yes there was a war of sorts going on at the time.

The way these police suited up in St Louis, I though it was a parody at first. The hardware they have is unbelievable, and to train it on what are essentially unarmed citizens pretty stunning. But America has been going down that route for a while now, the ‘swattisation’ of the police force and giving them too much power overall.

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I left the States in late March of 2001 and haven’t been back since, so it’s all kind of baffling to me.

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So here’s what happened last night. The protesters assembled at dusk as they have every evening since the tragedy occurred. Captain Johnson, the state police captain who has taken over the investigation, walked with the protesters. Captain Johnson was not wearing military armor, did not carry a military weapon, and he wasn’t surrounded by tanks with snipers on top. Captain Johnson, and all of his men, looked like cops, not soldiers. They didn’t hassle anybody.

So what was the result? A night of peaceful protests. There was not one act of violence, nor looting, nor arson.

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Thanks for the info Irish Stu and Charlie Jack.