Money or different life?

Discussion Open Forum
21

Sorry for stating the obvious, but there’s a huge difference between spending 6 months in Taiwan and making a life here.

I’ve been in Taiwan uniterrupted for almost 10 years and I think it’s fair to say that I’m settled here, what with wife, kids, cars, house, job, and so on. However, Taiwan is not for everyone. There are things here that I love and there are things here that I (still) hate and will continue to hate until I die. I’m in a kind of a love-hate relationship with Taiwan and sometimes the relationship can be a bit stormy at best. I sometimes think back of my previous life in my home country – the space, the people, the air, nature … and I miss it terribly. Other times I remember the poverty, the crime, the hunger … and I regret not having left 20 years ago.

Last point, you mentioned your fiance lost some of the “sparkle” she had in Taiwan? Or maybe it was one of the other poster? Any way, make sure you don’t lose your “sparkle” once you are in Taiwan.

Ultimately, the decision is yours. Best of luck, mate.

Taiwan has been good to me.

22

[quote=“Surly”]Under 30, stay and make as much money as you can.

After that, well, you’re not getting any younger and you only get one chance to use each opportunity that comes your way.[/quote]

Sage advice here from Surly. Taiwan can be a great experience for you professionally if you network properly and aren’t afraid of hard work. However, as you age or have kids, you may realize that you want a change of environments. If you aren’t too materialistic, are willing to take a pay cut and work [at first at least] in a profession (e.g kindy teaching) that you may think is below your elite or semi-elite :wink: education, then take the plunge.

23

I used to have a career back home*, it was safe and stable and secure (why do people call that “boring”?) I thought I could carry it on here. Due to the recent developments in that industry, I might not be doing it now, but I would be in a position to find something.

Now I am unemployed, unemployable, no prospects, no career, no life, nowhere to call home. I have become so agoraphobic (look it up) that I never go out. I have been looking up methods of suicide on the internet, because I can see no way to carry on.

*When I say home, I mean the country on my passport. I have been away too long for it to be my home. This place can never be my home. The only way to life with out my home country and my family is to try to convince myself they don’t exist. So I have so home either.

All because someone said I could survive here, and I believed them.

24

Man, you swedes have 5 weeks holiday, do some adventurous stuff during your vacation … believe me, Taiwan is boring too mostly, unless you’re hanging out drunk in pub with some …
What I wanted to say is that no matter where you are, being in a job and getting in daily routine … it will get boring over time …

25

Well, I don’t think you need to teach English to support yourself here, really, at least not with your educational background. There are loads of companies looking for marketing people here and I’m sure your fiance can help you find the jobs, as for some odd reason, even when they’re looking for English speakers, or other languages for that matter, they post the jobs on Chinese websites, go figure…

As a fellow Swede (although I spent 8 years in the UK before moving here) I have to say that I quite like it out here, despite not making even half the money I made in London, but then again, the cost of living here is not even a third of what it was there.
You have to take the ups with the downs and that’s pretty much it. Taiwan is what it is and as long as you can live with that, then it’s not a bad place to live in.
I much preffer Taipei to London, despite some similarities when it comes to the bad stuff, like delivery people turning up when they want to, not when they said they were going to, undrinkable tap water, some really stupid laws and regulations etc.

Yet, I don’t know where else I’d rather be right now, as my life is pretty good. I got a great girlfriend, a nice place to live in and I don’t work my ass off. Ok, so I don’t have an office job here, but as long as you can make sure that you do your job during your work hours and your boss knows that, I don’t think you have to spend half your life in the office either, like most of the locals who seem to live there, mostly, in my experience anyhow, because they don’t get anything done during their work hours.

Try to find a job before you leave Sweden and negotiate a good deal, it’s possible to get more holiday and what not, just make sure you get it in writing. I’d say give it a go if you feel like you need a break, spend a year here and see how it goes, but don’t come here without a job, that’d be a misstake.

Lycka till

26

can’t you just take your vacations to have an adventure? I mean, the Swedes have 3 months vacation or something ridiculous, good healthcare, clean environment, etc. right?

I mean, maybe I’m exaggerating, but Swedes are not known for their oppressive corporate culture and long-working hours. What’s not to like? so you want to avoid hours by coming to Taiwan? That’s funny.

If you’re bored, go do a safari or something. why Taiwan?

And if your gf doesn’t like depending on you in sweden, what about the reverse in TW?

27

Have you considered going home? It might be good for you.

You’re very employable – you just don’t realize it.

Well, sounds like it is time for you to go home, dude. :noway:

28

Have you considered going home? It might be good for you.

You’re very employable – you just don’t realize it.

Well, sounds like it is time for you to go home, dude. :noway:[/quote]

I agree. Go home. If you are looking up methods of suicide, then how could it possibly be worse trying out back home, no matter what you might have to give up in Taiwan?

29

What was your career back home? I really can’t think of many professions/professional skills that wouldn’t somehow be transferrable to Taiwan (even when things like licensing requirements come into play, there are usually still ways to put skills to profitable use). For example, a foreign lawyer may not be allowed to litigate before a judge in Taiwan, but he or she, by meeting some fairly minimal requirements, can get a license to practice corporate law as an “attorney of foreign affairs”, or failing that can get work in a “paralegal” or “consultant” capacity that can become lucrative once the person gets a reputation for good work. A dentist might not be able to practice dentistry in Taiwan, but might be able to find a lucrative job selling or sourcing dental equipment, etc. Incidentally, I’m not sure how your Chinese skills are, but I tend to think that speaking Chinese is not as essential to finding a professional job in Taiwan as many people suppose it to be. For example, I recently learned that a certain foreign lawyer who has been in Taiwan for a long time is considered by many overseas banking attorneys as the “go-to” guy for advice on securities practicce in Taiwan, although he doesn’t read Chinese (at least this is what I was told) – he works in a team with researchers who can cover that side for him.

From your posts it’s obvious you’re a very sharp guy. I met you once at a happy hour a long time ago and we talked briefly and nothing about you struck me as “unemployable”. (I’m in a position where I make hiring decisions from time to time, so I can say this with some confidence.)

I truly hope you’re not really contemplating suicide! Feel free to pm me if you want someone to talk to. I think you have a lot of friends on Forumosa who would be happy to lend some emotional support (and maybe suggest other resources for help) if you contact us.

30

[quote=“Rotalsnart”]I think you have a lot of friends on Forumosa who would be happy to lend some emotional support (and maybe suggest other resources for help) if you contact us.[/quote]Absolutely.

BFM, if you wanted, I think you could get a job as a tech writer here pretty easily. You write clearly; you like helping people use computers, gadgets and software; and from your posts here you seem to have a whole bunch of tech-y experience.

That in turn could lead to other opportunities here or back home.

31

[quote=“Big Fluffy Matthew”]I used to have a career back home*, it was safe and stable and secure (why do people call that “boring”?) I thought I could carry it on here. Due to the recent developments in that industry, I might not be doing it now, but I would be in a position to find something.

Now I am unemployed, unemployable, no prospects, no career, no life, nowhere to call home. I have become so agoraphobic (look it up) that I never go out. I have been looking up methods of suicide on the internet, because I can see no way to carry on.

*When I say home, I mean the country on my passport. I have been away too long for it to be my home. This place can never be my home. The only way to life with out my home country and my family is to try to convince myself they don’t exist. So I have so home either.

All because someone said I could survive here, and I believed them.[/quote]
But there is nothing in Taiwan that holds you there (as in forces you to stay), so go back - it can only be better. At least your family is there.

I am happy I left Taiwan, wasn’t a place for me either. So the decision was to continue “the misery” or get out. I chose the latter.

32

[quote=“Big Fluffy Matthew”]I used to have a career back home*, it was safe and stable and secure (why do people call that “boring”?) I thought I could carry it on here. Due to the recent developments in that industry, I might not be doing it now, but I would be in a position to find something.

Now I am unemployed, unemployable, no prospects, no career, no life, nowhere to call home. I have become so agoraphobic (look it up) that I never go out. I have been looking up methods of suicide on the internet, because I can see no way to carry on.

*When I say home, I mean the country on my passport. I have been away too long for it to be my home. This place can never be my home. The only way to life with out my home country and my family is to try to convince myself they don’t exist. So I have so home either.

All because someone said I could survive here, and I believed them.[/quote]

WTF!

Get help, BFM. Seriously. Community Center or whatever the hell it is in Tienmu. Get your head on straight.

33

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Well, I don’t think you need to teach English to support yourself here, really, at least not with your educational background. There are loads of companies looking for marketing people here and I’m sure your fiance can help you find the jobs, as for some odd reason, even when they’re looking for English speakers, or other languages for that matter, they post the jobs on Chinese websites, go figure…

[/quote]

These jobs are great for experience, but do you want an office job for 12 hours a day for about 25-30K a year? You’re leaving Sweden because you have an office job with great pay. Why would you trade that for an office job with mediocre pay, unless you think the experience is better?

You can make a lot of money in Taiwan once you meet the right people, but you’ll have to impress them with long hours, creative thinking and results.

34

Once you’ve left your job, have you closed that door? What are the odds you could get it back if things didn’t work out in Taiwan? If you’re accustommed to a certain lifestyle and degree of respect, and English teaching is the only job you can get over here, don’t kid yourself; the novelty will wear off quickly. On the other hand, maybe it will be “just what the doctor ordered”. Who knows?

Have you and your fiancee lived together in Taiwan before? Going from being the one with the “advantage” in terms of job, language etc. to being the one without can be really stressful in a relationship. And don’t even get me started on the inlaws… :blah:

Please note that I’m not trying to dissuade you or to be overly negative, but think this through, especially if you’ll be burning bridges in Sweden.

35

[quote=“irishstu”]I agree. Go home. If you are looking up methods of suicide, then how could it possibly be worse trying out back home, no matter what you might have to give up in Taiwan?[/quote]I am hoping that when push comes to shove I will jump on a plane instead. But then I’ll have make a new life, and deal with the consequences of my actions, including the legals ones. I don’t think I could handle that stress. So yes, the other option is the cowardly selfish way out; less stressful, for me.
Thanks for the PMs, if I don’t answer I’m not being rude or ungrateful, I’m just not sure how to handle it. I try to avoid or forget things that stress me out, not always possible though.

36

And according to Taiwanese law even English teaching isn’t legally possible … what’s left is opening your own business or office job …

37

Eddie G, I see you got a lot of good replies already. Let me just say that I can relate to not wanting to get stuck in a job that you alraedy know you’d end up not being happy in. I turned down a promotion last week for that same reason.
As for moving to Taiwan, do consider all the posts first. I loved my two years there, but I went to work on a two year contract from Holland. My retourn date was always more or less set and that made it easy to enjoy everything and ignore the stuff that would have annoyed me in the long run.
Is there any chance for you to find a job with a company with office in Taipei and then get sent on expat contract?

BMF, this has been going on for way too long, dear. You know how I feel on the subject so I won’t nag you again. But, maybe it’s time to listen to these good people.

38

[quote=“tash”]Eddie G, I see you got a lot of good replies already. Let me just say that I can relate to not wanting to get stuck in a job that you alraedy know you’d end up not being happy in. I turned down a promotion last week for that same reason.
As for moving to Taiwan, do consider all the posts first. I loved my two years there, but I went to work on a two year contract from Holland. My retourn date was always more or less set and that made it easy to enjoy everything and ignore the stuff that would have annoyed me in the long run.
Is there any chance for you to find a job with a company with office in Taipei and then get sent on expat contract?

BMF, this has been going on for way too long, dear. You know how I feel on the subject so I won’t nag you again. But, maybe it’s time to listen to these good people.[/quote]

I’ll definitely consider them. The problem as always is that they keep on repeating all that stuff I have in my head. Writing the original post really made me feel better but now it’s all coming back.

An Expat contract would be marvelous of course, but I really don’t know how to find one. It’s not like you just find them on the regular job sites.

39

[quote=“nemesis”]Once you’ve left your job, have you closed that door? What are the odds you could get it back if things didn’t work out in Taiwan? If you’re accustommed to a certain lifestyle and degree of respect, and English teaching is the only job you can get over here, don’t kid yourself; the novelty will wear off quickly. On the other hand, maybe it will be “just what the doctor ordered”. Who knows?

Have you and your fiancee lived together in Taiwan before? Going from being the one with the “advantage” in terms of job, language etc. to being the one without can be really stressful in a relationship. And don’t even get me started on the inlaws… :blah:

Please note that I’m not trying to dissuade you or to be overly negative, but think this through, especially if you’ll be burning bridges in Sweden.[/quote]

It’s 9 AM here and I’m starting my last day at this placement, next Monday I start a new one, so maybe this is my last reply here :wink:

I don’t think that I’ve closed the door definitely if I leave. I’ve shown good performance and people like me. It’s just a matter of how long I’m away.

We have lived together in Taiwan for 3 months. In a 15 square meters room with no kitchen. I was on exchange at the time though so the “job” was not an issue, but I got to feel the language thing pretty hard a few times. I’m sorry you’re having problems with the inlaws. My GF’s dad (her mother is not with us anymore) is a cool guy. We’re communicating through his 10 words in English, my 30 words in Chinese, and about 50 different gestures. He even gave me a back rub when we were visiting this summer and I beat him in the basketball game :notworthy:

Thank you for a great reply nemesis! I think (somewhere down deep) that I started this thread to see how many would try to dissuade me and how many would try to persuade me…

40

If you’re young, you can do most anything for a year or two and still get back on track in your home country. You can probably do it when you’re older too, though it will be a little more difficult. It is also possible that if you learn fluent Mandarin and learn something about the Asia trade when you’re here, you could be in even greater demand when and if you move back to Sweden.

I think the answer to your questions depends largely on what you think is going to make you happy long-term. A brilliant career can do that; a career in a field you’re interested in won’t. You have considered that there are probably other jobs available in Sweden, right? If the the one you have now doesn’t motivate you, there’s always that.

Personally, Taiwan (combined with some hard work) has provided me and my family with a great life. Deciding to live here permanently was largely a factor of my decision to marry my wife, who is Taiwanese. If I hadn’t met her, I might not have stayed.