More Blue Hypocrisy

[ac_dropout]

Mr He,

But Taiwan is only 1 of the territories ROC administers. Once again this comes back to the argument of what about those 2 other islands ROC administers that is not part of Taiwan.

If this argument is that the name of the post office should contain the word Taiwan to make under-educated, less traveled southern Taiwanese feel good about themselves, isn’t that political move done at the expense of ROC citizens in Matzu and Jinmen?

As you know I feel the DPP wasted their time on this issue of name changes, because the KMT can change them all back just as quickly, which they are it seems.

Not to mention this localization movement seems like exaggerated BS most of the time.

[goingstrong]

@ac_dropout

[quote]Lame. Outside Taiwan, people answer “Where are you from?” with Taiwan, not the ROC or their father’s hometown.

I still answer Free China in English.

In the overseas Chinese community, everyone answers with the province or city that they are from. I don’t see people going out of their way to use official nomenclatures of the State they are from either.

Formosa Post would have been a good comprimise.

Unless you think Taiwan is still a Dutch colony, I don’t see the point. Ducth never tried to intergrate the Chinese to their society.

Taiwan is a distinct Chinese society. Zhonghwa, by itself denotes that something is a Chinese. Why bother with something Dutch, when no one speaks Middle Dutch or Modern Dutch in Taiwan on any significant scale?

That would be as silly as naming something in Classical Ming nomenclature in Taiwan.

Many many Taiwanese and even some foreigners have gotten wealthy from night market businesses. The more I read your posts, the more I wonder what you have against small scale business and individual initiative.

I have no problem with nightmarket vendors that hand out receipts and take the proper precaution to prevent the spread of communitable diseases.[/quote]
:roflmao:

When people refer to Taiwan, I don’t even hear them say RoC. They just say “Taiwan”. So, RoC is moot in the name.

Taiwan is nothing like China. Taiwan’s more Japanesey than Chinesey as one Hong Kong friend told me once. Doesn’t even share the same government. There’s no such thing as two Chinas either. You can go to Chinatown in NYC and you can easily tell the difference between the Taiwanese restaurants and the Chinese ones.

And what the heck is a “Free China”? Oh wait… You mean Hong Kong?

Once again, AC (Average Chinese) logic is sinking lower and lower every post that comes through.

[ac_dropout]

You can go to Chinatown in NYC and you can easily tell the difference between the Taiwanese restaurants and the Chinese ones.

Really, how?
I can find bubble tea by Koreans in NYC these days.

If another Chinese ask another Chinese where their from, no one is going to use PRC or ROC. Even if a non-Chinese asked, no one is going to say PRC. Does that mean PRC is moot also.

So hard to debate people that are neither Taiwanese or American about the Strait Issue, their point of reference are just so odd.

[goingstrong]

[quote=“ac_dropout”]
Really, how?
I can find bubble tea by Koreans in NYC these days. [/quote]
Heh. You can find boba tea anywhere. Even in a mall. This isn’t about boba tea though. It’s about how these restaurants clearly have the name “Taiwan” on them and even their presentation is different too (i.e. less crowded and cleaner). Gives you a different feeling all together.

[quote]
If another Chinese ask another Chinese where their from, no one is going to use PRC or ROC. Even if a non-Chinese asked, no one is going to say PRC. Does that mean PRC is moot also.[/quote]
Because those names are used mostly for political debates or to amplify all those history buffs about Chinese roots. I.e. ancestors came from China so that makes you Chinese is about as moot as Anglo-Saxons coming from England so that makes every Anglo-Saxon, Brits. The Chinese don’t seem to understand that you may come from the same ancestors but you have a different culture from them.

Majority of the time, people refer to China as China and Taiwan as Taiwan. So, yes… PRC is moot! >D Much like The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. For one thing, Taiwan doesn’t promote the color “red”.

[quote]
So hard to debate people that are neither Taiwanese or American about the Strait Issue, their point of reference are just so odd.[/quote]So hard to debate to an Average Chinese about “independence” because of China wanting to hold onto its honor of being huge. I find their viewpoints so sad. :loco:

[ac_dropout]

It’s about how these restaurants clearly have the name “Taiwan” on them and even their presentation is different too

Really, I never saw a restaurant with the word “Taiwan” on it. Maybe in your imagination, Chinese restaurants that serve Taiwan style food have a little green flag and speak Minnan. But those of us that engage the overseas Chinese community know that is hardly the case.

For all you know there can be an Amigo in the back making those Taiwanese food.

Taiwan doesn’t promote the color “red”.

I see plenty of red in Taiwanese weddings, Taiwanese birthday, and Taiwanese New Year…

The Chinese don’t seem to understand that you may come from the same ancestors but you have a different culture from them.

Kind of difficult for you to determine, if you’re neither Taiwanese or Chinese…

These are the views of an average Taiwanese.

[LA1]

[quote=“goingstrong”]

Taiwan is nothing like China. Taiwan’s more Japanesey than Chinesey as one Hong Kong friend told me once. Doesn’t even share the same government. There’s no such thing as two Chinas either. You can go to Chinatown in NYC and you can easily tell the difference between the Taiwanese restaurants and the Chinese ones.

[/quote]

Dude, you been gulping too much Green colored water

[LA1]

:roflmao:

[goingstrong]

@ac_dropout

[quote]It’s about how these restaurants clearly have the name “Taiwan” on them and even their presentation is different too

Really, I never saw a restaurant with the word “Taiwan” on it. Maybe in your imagination, Chinese restaurants that serve Taiwan style food have a little green flag and speak Minnan. But those of us that engage the overseas Chinese community know that is hardly the case.

For all you know there can be an Amigo in the back making those Taiwanese food. [/quote]
That’s because you’re blind and you don’t look at all. I wouldn’t expect much from anyone who has connection with China and follows the 80 percent trust in China. Wonder where the minority “uneducated” people’s opinions are…

[quote]Taiwan doesn’t promote the color “red”.

I see plenty of red in Taiwanese weddings, Taiwanese birthday, and Taiwanese New Year…[/quote]
See above again. If you have relatives from China or have ties with China, then of course… You’re going to be seeing a lot of red. When I mean “red”, I mean everything “red”. In China, they celebrate with red. In Taiwan, they celebrate with different colors. Not just red as the “majority” color.

[quote]The Chinese don’t seem to understand that you may come from the same ancestors but you have a different culture from them.

Kind of difficult for you to determine, if you’re neither Taiwanese or Chinese…

These are the views of an average Taiwanese.[/quote]
:roflmao: You’re speaking to a Taiwanese so your point is hard to undetermine. Oh dear, Average Chinese. >D

[quote][quote=“LA”][quote=“goingstrong”]

Taiwan is nothing like China. Taiwan’s more Japanesey than Chinesey as one Hong Kong friend told me once. Doesn’t even share the same government. There’s no such thing as two Chinas either. You can go to Chinatown in NYC and you can easily tell the difference between the Taiwanese restaurants and the Chinese ones.

[/quote]

Dude, you been gulping too much Green colored water [/quote] [/quote]
Nah. I’ve been drinking a lot of purple colored water mixed with super sugar.

Example wise. You go to a CD store in Taiwan and you find a lot of the J-pop selection almost sold out. You go to the Chinese pop selection and most of the CDs are pretty much still there. Taiwan radio plays different mix of songs including J-pop. Oh yea, not to mention all the Japanese malls and Japanese anime/manga fandom. Plus, all the store workers greet you when you walk into a store the Japanese way. Conbini are everywhere.

Or ya mean the two China bit? >D Why can’t Taiwan be Taiwan? It’s already independent as it is. Hmmm. Well, as long as that status quo stays put… Taiwan will stay independent anyways.

I’ve only been to one Chinese restaurant in Taiwan which had that Taiwan tourist touch your heart sticker. That’s the only place where I’ve probably seen a lot of red. Everything else has been nothing but all Taiwanese from buffet to shabu shabu to Yulan food to night market food to a cafe to my grandmother’s own cooking. Any Chinese food in any of them? Nope.

If I see lo-mein…I’ll let you know the next time I go back to Taiwan. ^___^

[ac_dropout]

goingstrong,

Li gong xiang. Li me shi Daiwan lang. Li shi Miguo xu tiao (American french fries).

Not that I know anything about licensing J-pop from Avex Trax Taiwan. But you understand with rampant downloading CD production is kept to a 1st release only these days. Unless you’re super popular you might get a second printing in Taiwan.

If you’re a night market CD buyer, then what are you talking about you can Jpop CDs that are even discontinued in Japan, because those things are unlicensed due to ROC unique WTO status.

Now if you goto the mainland, you’ll see studios like Gainax and Madhouse, making deals with PRC studio on joint production animation. Which ROC never had. Not to mention the mainland legit retailers also get the latest Jpop acts as well.

Go to a night market in ROC and PRC and you will see over 80% of the food is the same. Stinky tofu, Ja Jiang Noodles, Crythanmium Tea, steamed buns, baked buns, Cow Tongue (the pastry), Rice balls, Egg pancakes, beef noodle soup, etc. etc.

You can even have sushi, sashimi, and miso soup on the mainland as well. But it is still Chinese.

Go to 圓山大飯店 Grand hotel in Taipei. Very Chinese.

You’ll find mostly Chinese food in Taiwan.

I guess my point being, you haven’t seen the 4 sides of the world yet American french fries.

These are the views of the average Taiwanese.

[goingstrong]

[quote=“ac_dropout”]goingstrong,

Li gong xiang. Li me shi Daiwan lang. Li shi Miguo xu tiao (American french fries).

Not that I know anything about licensing J-pop from Avex Trax Taiwan. But you understand with rampant downloading CD production is kept to a 1st release only these days. Unless you’re super popular you might get a second printing in Taiwan.

If you’re a night market CD buyer, then what are you talking about you can Jpop CDs that are even discontinued in Japan, because those things are unlicensed due to ROC unique WTO status.

Now if you goto the mainland, you’ll see studios like Gainax and Madhouse, making deals with PRC studio on joint production animation. Which ROC never had. Not to mention the mainland legit retailers also get the latest Jpop acts as well. [/quote]

D I wasn’t taught Mandarin when I was young so I wouldn’t get a clue of what you just put down. (I wasn’t taught Taiwanese either though so heh… At least I know my identity.)

I’m quite aware that the Chinese are all over Japan goods too. It’s too obvious because you can get free manga in Chinese online. My point is that Taiwan has a blend of Japanese culture in the country. It isn’t all Chinese. So, when you blend both, it becomes a whole different thing.

I’m also not a night market CD buyer. I buy all my stuff in stores. nods

[quote]Go to a night market in ROC and PRC and you will see over 80% of the food is the same. Stinky tofu, Ja Jiang Noodles, Crythanmium Tea, steamed buns, baked buns, Cow Tongue (the pastry), Rice balls, Egg pancakes, beef noodle soup, etc. etc.

You can even have sushi, sashimi, and miso soup on the mainland as well. But it is still Chinese. [/quote]
And? Of course you can find that stuff there but you can find other food that isn’t Chinese in a night market. (i.e. takayoki balls and tempura which are the Taiwanese versions) You can also find some of those Chinese food in other Asian countries in their own markets and night markets. Vietnam comes to mind of that. Taiwan isn’t the only one.

Oh. And a lot of countries have their own versions of sushi, sashimi, and miso soup depending on whether the country has at least one Japanese restaurant. >D

[quote]
Go to 圓山大飯店 Grand hotel in Taipei. Very Chinese. [/quote]
Yeah. Like. The only Chinese looking hotel on that mountain. Point? I don’t feel much connection to it except that it serves as a grim reminder of the martial law.

[quote]
You’ll find mostly Chinese food in Taiwan.[/quote]
:roflmao: :loco:

There isn’t just Chinese food in Taiwan and mostly, whenever I go to a Taiwanese supermarket, I don’t just find Chinese food. You must be the one who goes and eat a lot of that stuff. Edit: And when I said in previous post that I don’t come across any Chinese food, means…food that I’m going to eat right away. I know there’s Chinese food out there. The people, who came from China to Taiwan, brought over what they have. It’s a no brainer.

[quote]
I guess my point being, you haven’t seen the 4 sides of the world yet American french fries.

These are the views of the average Taiwanese.[/quote]
I’ve been to over 8 countries in my life. Have I seen the entire world? Nope. Do I intend to do that? Nope. But I’ve learned a lot when visiting them. Ya know what though? Media does help in certain situations. Love all the raw footage that comes from people living tough times.

And resorting to some kind of nickname? >D Haha… Cute. Must be the small payback for calling you Average Chinese which you are, yeah? You’re not very average Taiwanese at all if you base all of your food and culture in Chinese.

That’s how 3 way split Taiwan is (thankfully). Depending on where you grew up and who taught you what, you get a whole different persective upon others. :3

[Poagao]

Watching Goingstrong and AC_Dropout trying to see which one knows more about living in Taiwan. Priceless.

Pray continue:

[goingstrong]

Hmmm… The fact that both of us actually have our families immigrate to the States must be something to do with that. Except, for my family’s reason was because of that martial law crackdown before I was born. >D But I have my yearly visits to Taiwan ever since I was six years old. Although, that has gotten less since I’m older now. I have cousins in Taiwan who attend two different institutions. So, I also have a nice perspective of those who go to TAS (Taipei American School) and a local school in southern Taiwan.

But a week to two week yearly visits aren’t enough to actually experience a country as a whole. So, I can only go by what I’ve experienced so far. Edit: So, I prefer to actually watch the debates with people living in Taiwan more so regardless of who you are and what you believe in. ^___^

[ac_dropout]

goingstrong,

Yes I see, you don’t understand Mandarin or Minnan, that makes you an above average Taiwanese, like some of those WGR in f.com that claim to be Taiwanese by association or length of residency in Taiwan…

No wonder I find f.com so entertaining.

I’m quite aware that the Chinese are all over Japan goods too.

Yes, you can find illegal fansubs and scanlantion in English too, my Chinese illiterate french fries. Does that mean the US is part of Japan?

Does the existance of Western otaku in the West mean that Western culture is now really Eastern culture?

Your logic is quite amusing.

And when I said in previous post that I don’t come across any Chinese food, means…food that I’m going to eat right away. I know there’s Chinese food out there. The people, who came from China to Taiwan, brought over what they have. It’s a no brainer.

Since the dawn of time the basement of Sogo department store has existed in Taiwan serving Japanese food…

Please don’t change your handle anytime soon.

[ac_dropout]

@Poagao

Watching Goingstrong and AC_Dropout trying to see which one knows more about living in Taiwan. Priceless.

I think our perspective may be alien, because we never are assumed to be WGR when we goto Taiwan. Not that it is not enlightening to observe WGR going through localization or Tai-hua, a sub-category of Sinification.

But in terms of political discourse I don’t believe WGR were ever a target of a wedge issue in Taiwan during a presidential race, unlike WSR.

Granted there does exist discrimination against WGR in Taiwan on an individual level, but I’m not aware of a national political campaign against WGR sanctioned by any of the political parties in Taiwan.

[goingstrong]

[quote=“ac_dropout”]goingstrong,

Yes I see, you don’t understand Mandarin or Minnan, that makes you an above average Taiwanese, like some of those WGR in f.com that claim to be Taiwanese by association or length of residency in Taiwan…

No wonder I find f.com so entertaining.[/quote]
Who cares if you’re above or below . The fact that people live there with their own government and president makes it enough as its own country already. It’s fine enough to have shared ethnic backgrounds or different backgrounds, but the fact that people from China do not recognize enough all the people who have lived in Taiwan for generations, like my family. A lot of years have passed over time and Taiwan was able to stand on its own two feet.

And maybe you should recheck those claims through family albums.

[quote]Yes, you can find illegal fansubs and scanlantion in English too, my Chinese illiterate french fries. Does that mean the US is part of Japan?

Does the existance of Western otaku in the West mean that Western culture is now really Eastern culture?

Your logic is quite amusing. [/quote]
What does the West have to do with that? You were pointing out the obvious of finding J-goods in China. Now, you’re stating another obvious about western anime otaku. (Oh, and I’m quite aware also of your account on ANN.)

Your logic is very cute indeed. :bravo: As for your questions, that should apply to the entire world. You’d think the entire world is part of Japan?

Oh and I have no relatives in China so why would I be a Chinese? Once again, you’re ignoring the fact that for everyone who came from China and lived in Taiwan for over 100 of years. They developed their own identity, culture, system, and country. Unfortunately for people like you who are on the side that we should all be “brothers and sisters because we all share the same culture background” doesn’t work at all. Creating the so-called “social harmony” is a Chinese ideology rooted from the communist system.

No wonder 80 percent of the people in China enjoy the prosperity of their country. Besides a booming fast growth in the economy, they enjoy having their houses taken away by the CCP to make room for the Olympics. No wonder there’s a huge gap between rich and poor people (meaning the so-called “uneducated” ones) in China. They all believe that the country should be runned strictly by the government only. Thankfully, there are a lot of social changes being done but it’s slow.

Taiwan is on a whole different level.

[quote]
Since the dawn of time the basement of Sogo department store has existed in Taiwan serving Japanese food…

Please don’t change your handle anytime soon.[/quote]
You just said that you’ll find mostly Chinese food in Taiwan. Please don’t change your handle anytime soon either.

D As for that, I just wanted to be more specific since I wasn’t earlier.

[LA1]

@goingstrong

Example wise. You go to a CD store in Taiwan and you find a lot of the J-pop selection almost sold out. You go to the Chinese pop selection and most of the CDs are pretty much still there. Taiwan radio plays different mix of songs including J-pop. Oh yea, not to mention all the Japanese malls and Japanese anime/manga fandom. Plus, all the store workers greet you when you walk into a store the Japanese way. Conbini are everywhere.

That’s your example that Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese. Now, I must :roflmao:

I must be turning Japanese, because I ate sushi last night.

P.S. tell all those gringos who went to Taiwan to learn Chinese that they went to the wrong place.

[LA1]

[goingstrong]

[quote=“LA”]That’s your example that Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese. Now, I must :roflmao:

I must be turning Japanese, because I ate sushi last night.

P.S. tell all those gringos who went to Taiwan to learn Chinese that they went to the wrong place. [/quote]
:roflmao: :bravo: You definitely missed the point just like AC. That would be like saying everyone who reads manga are Japanese.

It’s already clear that Taiwan is crazy for Japan stuff but I’m talking about culture wise. You can tell it from the department stores and convenience stores. And also, inside some of the older and newer homes in Taiwan have tatami rooms (which is due to the Japanese colonization period). Taiwanese are also very welcoming towards other people and enjoy having independence without having any forced war on them. Half of them don’t care much for having a “pure bloodline” of any sort with Chinese. They’re happy enough as to where they are which is why, many just support the status quo.

Just because a lot of the people speak Mandarin doesn’t mean they affiliate themselves as Chinese. You live on an island called Taiwan. Not a province. A country. Understandably, all those who have relatives in China or had a past history of within 50 years of coming to Taiwan would associate themselves under the belief that Taiwan is the “true China”. I mean, it might’ve made sense years ago when Chiang came but in an ever changing world, most of Taiwan moved forward from that mindset. It’s pretty sad to see people still think this way instead of not seeing a potential of a country that made a name for itself in the world. China’s the only one holding it back because of missiles and using scare tactics which are sooo obvious.

I believe people of similar backgrounds but different cultures can work things out together without having to go the Nazi way. “Ethnic cleansing 101! Unite all Chinese blood!” …

And it’s pretty clear that this thread has been… :threadjacked: otherwise, I wouldn’t be seeing a similar response. I seriously respect your guys’ opinions. Love all the sarcasm and viewpoints. It’s really been an enjoyable thread. ^___^

[ac_dropout]

Oh and I have no relatives in China so why would I be a Chinese? Once again, you’re ignoring the fact that for everyone who came from China and lived in Taiwan for over 100 of years. They developed their own identity, culture, system, and country. Unfortunately for people like you who are on the side that we should all be “brothers and sisters because we all share the same culture background” doesn’t work at all. Creating the so-called “social harmony” is a Chinese ideology rooted from the communist system.

I find your understanding of anthropology and socialogy to be quite novel.

The Chinese have been in the US for 100 years as well. Since the gold rush period and transcontinental railroad period. Thus using your premise, the Chinese in the USA are actually American, because they’ve been in the US for 100 years. They have their own identity, culture, system, and occupy local government position within the US as well.

Thus your conclusions on your own identity of being an illerate non-fluent Taiwanese, means that your really an American.

As LA has point out, Japanese products, entertainment, and food can be found worldwide. So finding these things in Taiwan doesn’t make your argument anymore convincing.

Now, you’re stating another obvious about western anime otaku. (Oh, and I’m quite aware also of your account on ANN.)

I know you’ve had an online crush on me for quite sometime now.

Don’t change your handle anytime soon…

Just because a lot of the people speak Mandarin doesn’t mean they affiliate themselves as Chinese.

The average Taiwanese have voted to put the party that has no issue with Chinese culture, introduced modern Mandarin in Taiwan, and support the offical name of ROC back in power again.

Perhaps when you become literate in Chinese and fluent in either dialect of Mandarin or Minnan Chinese, your arguments will become more convincing.

Because right now your views are not aligned with the average Taiwanese.

[doraemon]

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote]

Just because a lot of the people speak Mandarin doesn’t mean they affiliate themselves as Chinese.

The average Taiwanese have voted to put the party that has no issue with Chinese culture, introduced modern Mandarin in Taiwan, and support the offical name of ROC back in power again.

.[/quote][/quote]

You mean the party of Mr horsey, who get only 27% of support (a world record) after only a little bit more than 2 months?