More KMT hypocrisy: combining pres. and leg. elections

Am I the only one who noticed this latest examples of hypocrisy from the Blues. Remember four years ago when the CEC ruled that the election and referenda papers should be at the same table and Blue-governed cities and counties said that they didn’t have to follow the guidence of the CEC because they don’t have authority granted by the legislature? Well, now the KMT is getting its wish to completely change the election cycle and disenfranchise thousands of young voters by combining the legislative and presidential elections (thus moving up the presidential elections by a few months and leaving something like a four month gap between the election and presidential inauguration.)

I know, this is SOP for the KMT, but the KMT loyalists really have to keep defending this kind of crap?!?!?

i think you are a tad sensitive about this…
in the west they combine elections for different levels and it’s okay…
i am neutral in politics, but it is kind of nice to combine these elections…why? first i don’t think it will influence anything…people will continue to get shot right before the elections, so it’s bound to happen again…politics are so easily influenced in this country things won’t change by doing this…all kidding aside, do you really like the atmosphere a few months before election time??? all those rallies, signs and nationalistic bs that comes with it? i go out and hear people getting so caught up in the heat of the moment I feel like vomiting…combine it, it’s more efficient, you only have to deal with it once in a while. i remember a few years ago there was a campaign every year for 5 years straight…sickening…
i saw an article a few years ago about how much an election costs an average county government in terms of admin costs and policing…the number is staggering…think about it from a fiscal view…this won’t help the green or the blues win…
the only people that lose out in this are the blue truck drivers that drive around your neighborhood with a megaphone and all the jeep owners in this country that cart prospective candidates around…

  1. It is the hypocrisy more than anything that gets me.
  2. The laws governing legislative and executive elections are different. The LY hasn’t reconciled the two, making the holding of both polls potentially rather complex.
  3. That will result in a very long gap between presidential election and inauguration (likely more than four months).
  1. Why complex? Surely it’s just marking another piece of paper. They can still follow different laws.

  2. that time gap can always be changed. If the incumbent wins it won’t make any difference, if the challenger wins, it’s only a few extra weeks. Not ideal but minor in the overall scheme of things.

Yes, the KMT is hypocritical - well all knew that. But I don’t think this will hugely help the KMT. Combining elections can improve turnout but that can help any party. Also, given the DPP isn’t exactly flush with cash it should be easier for them to make an impact with limited funds if they’re running ads at the same time for both elections. Because whilst you’re supposed to be voting for a candidate, people often vote for a party. Finally, combining the elections will remind people that both count. There should be less temptation to vote KMT in the legislative election and then vote DPP for the presidential election later.

[quote=“cfimages”]2. Why complex? Surely it’s just marking another piece of paper. They can still follow different laws.

  1. that time gap can always be changed. If the incumbent wins it won’t make any difference, if the challenger wins, it’s only a few extra weeks. Not ideal but minor in the overall scheme of things.[/quote]

  2. No, they can’t because the laws include who is qualified to work the polls…

  3. More than four months is a long period of time. Rules should not be made based on who wins, but based on law and remain the same and consistant all the time.

Funny how you ignored point #1. Four years ago the CEC could be ignored, now their mandate is the law of the land… the wonderful world of KMT government…

I ignored point one because I know the KMT is hypocritical. They’re a political party, it goes with the territory. The DPP, PFP, TSU etc are also hypocritical in certain areas.

Would you please explain how the DPP is hypocritical TO THE EXTENT that the KMT is? I love how people get on here and say the DPP does it too, the DPP does it too, but fail to clarify. Do you HONESTLY think the level of hypocrisy in the DPP even begins to approach that of the KMT???

While changing the date of the presidential election might be in the short-term interests of the KMT, combining the elections is common sense and is in the long term interest of Taiwan. Therefore I support it. I do think that having a lame duck president in office for four months after the election is way too long. But I think they will figure it out.

Anyway, this means there might be a chance to vote Ma out sooner than later. Who can argue with that?

Would you please explain how the DPP is hypocritical TO THE EXTENT that the KMT is? I love how people get on here and say the DPP does it too, the DPP does it too, but fail to clarify. Do you HONESTLY think the level of hypocrisy in the DPP even begins to approach that of the KMT???[/quote]

It’s politics. Hypocrisy is to be expected - there’s probably not a single political party anywhere in the world that’s free of it. Get over it.

“It’s politics” can be used to cover quite a range of things. In this case it’s the KMT’s anti-democratic agenda, the party’s earlier howls of protest against holding simultaneous elections being all about suppressing popular referendums (which the KMT had already done its best to prevent from working by putting onerous restrictions against their passage).

[quote=“ludahai”]
Would you please explain how the DPP is hypocritical TO THE EXTENT that the KMT is? I love how people get on here and say the DPP does it too, the DPP does it too, but fail to clarify. Do you HONESTLY think the level of hypocrisy in the DPP even begins to approach that of the KMT???[/quote]
This is a trick question, right? What’s the catch? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“ludahai”]
Would you please explain how the DPP is hypocritical TO THE EXTENT that the KMT is? I love how people get on here and say the DPP does it too, the DPP does it too, but fail to clarify. Do you HONESTLY think the level of hypocrisy in the DPP even begins to approach that of the KMT???[/quote]
This is a trick question, right? What’s the catch? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:[/quote]

Not a trick question… and I have noted the double dodge on this…

Is there a scale of hypocrisy of something? Maybe 1-10 with the KMT coming in at 7 and the DPP a 6? Does that make it ok for the DPP if they are less hypocritical overall then the KMT? What about areas where they’re more hypocritical? What then? Will Tsai really close the nuclear plants if she becomes president? Is Chen really an innocent victim of persecution who didn’t do anything illegal? :smiley:

Seriously, hypocrisy is part of politics and affects all parties. The only people who can’t see that are the partisan hacks that think their party’s shit don’t stink. :laughing:

[quote=“cfimages”]Is there a scale of hypocrisy of something? Maybe 1-10 with the KMT coming in at 7 and the DPP a 6? Does that make it ok for the DPP if they are less hypocritical overall then the KMT? What about areas where they’re more hypocritical? What then? Will Tsai really close the nuclear plants if she becomes president? Is Chen really an innocent victim of persecution who didn’t do anything illegal? :smiley:

Seriously, hypocrisy is part of politics and affects all parties. The only people who can’t see that are the partisan hacks that think their party’s shit don’t stink. :laughing:[/quote]

KMT is a 7 while the DPP is a 6??? lol… and Tsai says she will work to close down the plants sometime between 2019 and 2025… this is feasible considering that the first three are aging and should be retired by that point as it is anyway… and given the maintenance record of those plants… they really SHOULD be shut down…

As for Chen, I don’t know if he did anything illegal or not… I wasn’t there and I don’t know what the source of the money was, but I DO know that the trial reeked to high heaven and Ma is a rank hypocrite for his comments that the judiciary should be indepedent and yet he and members of his party regularly make statements that interfere with said independence of the judicary…

Again, you have NOT made your point that the DPP is even close to as hypocritical as the KMT… not even close… I need to find a failpail for you…

I haven’t tried to make a point that the DPP is equivalent to the KMT. I’m asking you what you think - hence the question mark at the end of the 6 and 7 statement. It was a question not a statement of my opinion. And the smilies to show that it’s generally tongue-in-cheek and not to be taken seriously.

I have no interest in showing one is more hypocritical than the other. They’re politicians. I expect them all to be hypocritical.

In this opinion piece from last Sunday’s Taipei Times, J. Michael Cole explains why he thinks holding presidential and legislative elections at the same time is anti-democratic, and I agree with him: Combining elections means less democracy

I’ve posted this quote before, but I think it really does bear re-posting:

This link just goes back to this forum posting.

This link just goes back to this forum posting.[/quote]
Beg pardon. I’ve fixed the link now.