Mormons in Taiwan

Arts & Sciences Religion & Spirituality
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[quote=“formosa”]almas john, the Mormons i met here in Korea last week told me that they cannot even read the newspapers overseas for two years? Tomas, is that true too? So they cannot read the China Post or TT while they are in Taiwan? Yikes! How do they get the news?

Tomas, your stories are great, thanks. You will be damned to Hell for telling us, but thanks. They really wear special underwear? OMIGOD! and that initiation ceremony is positively BONKERS SUPERNATURAL HOCUS POCUS. unbelieavble!

God bless you,f or being so honest to tell us the truth. I hope you do not suffer any negative repercussons from Mormons in Taiwan reading your posts…[/quote]

Yes, it is true that missionaries are not allowed to read newspapers or non-church related magazines. They are cautioned to stay focused “on the Lord’s work,” and not become distracted by worldly issues.

The rest of your assertions are pretty out there. There is no English-teaching bonanza among the missionaries. There was no particular “target” when proseltizing, so I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea thea missionaries only go after lonely, single people. The main goal was in fact families, as they are considered the bedrock of any church organization.

The emotional manipulation claim could be made of any organized religion, and bear in mind that these young missionaries are themselves victims of that manipulation. They honestly believe that they are doing the right thing, and doing it out of love and a sense of duty.

I don’t feel badly about having introduced Mormonism to some people. I think that people are capable of making their own decisions about staying in or leaving the church, and most Taiwanese people I know who were at one time Mormons have no feelings of bitterness about the experience, so I’m not sure whether your getting the “emotional swindling” from. To be sure, some manipulation is involved, but not to the degree that you imply.

But then, if you weren’t a little “out there,” you wouldn’t be our beloved formosa, now would you? :slight_smile:

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[quote=“formosa”] I have seen many Taiwanese and Koreans crying deep tears over this kind of extreme family and personal pressure – all for a charlatan religion that we in the West know to be pure bullshit. Come one, Joe Smith found a golden bible in upstate New York?
[/quote]

Ouch, Formosa! Any religion that brought us Donnie and Marie, Ricky Schroeder of “The Champ” and “Silver Spoons” fame and The Jetts can’t be all that bad.

23

But then, if you weren’t a little “out there,” you wouldn’t be our beloved formosa, now would you? TRUE ENUF!

But, Tomas, one thing I don’t understand, if you left the church because your mind opened up and you saw the world is more than the black and white picture the church shows its members, then why do you still defend its practices? In fact, the effed up your life, and you will now spend the rest of your life getting healthier. But why stick up for a sick church that practices mind control? Maybe because you can never leave the church entirely?

Yes, they do target lonley single people at post offices, in parks and in bookstores, all over Taiwan and Korea. Ask anyone on this board who has seen them in action. They also target families, but they work in pairs and they always target single people. maybe they never told you.

Anyway, Tomas, I still love you. you have a huge inherited heritage to get rid of. it will not be easy. mind control is subtle and vast.

just look at me, the victim of terrible mind control experiments on Planet Tune-Nep!

As for God, i know she is a black woman in Africa. It is where we all began. Eve.

24

I get as annoyed as anyone when I have to deal with a Mormon missionary. However, I have to give them respect when respect is due. Most of them come over to Taiwan when they are 18 to 20 years old. 99% of the LDS missionaries I knew had worked for a year after high school to finance their missions. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t think I would have been able to make that kind of commitment at age 18. I think the object of their commitment is silly, but I still think it shows a lot of maturity on their part. I also think that these mission experiences probably exert a progressive influence on the Mormon church. They are going home with a broader view of the world, and I have met quite a few whose mission experiences led them to question their faith.

25

You might better give them your pity. Religions always prey on young and impressionable minds or tormented souls. It’smuch easier to sell hope to someone who’s looking to buy it. Literally hundreds of Taiwan’s mormons are young gay men who believe the mormon experience will “cure” them.

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So in order to keep the faith expanding, they’re risking their flocks by sending them out there to get a ‘broader view’. This may prove fatal. Actually, I’m surprised that LDS is going so strong in the US, but then again, they’re probably all cocooned into their communities and the US is a scary place for youngsters who’re on the religious fringe of society.

Tomas, you didn’t answer my questions about divorce or about the financial and social benefits of being in a close-knit mormon community which I would guess keeps the smartest of folks well-entwined.

27

Tomas, I have been interested in this: The garments (underwear) for men has various symbols on them. What are the symbols, where are they on the garments and what do they represent?

Not coming to a theater near you…and not starring Tom Cruise.

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Above poster wrote: “Literally hundreds of Taiwan’s mormons are young gay men who believe the mormon experience will “cure” them.”

Wowsers! IF this is true, this is a major story for the newspapers to investigate! How do u come by this info? is there some rumor among Taiwanese that Mormons can cure homos? If true, this news will be in the NEW YORK TIMEs tomorrow. But first, verify, can you? examples? dish!

Tomas, ever heard of this CURE issue?

My God, this might be the straw that broke the camel’s back if true. I never heard of this before, but u know, formosa’s way slow on the uptake! I just found out the Earth’s not flat a few days ago. Life is one big long learning curve. did u know that SMILES is the longest word in the Englishy language?

Yes. ask me why… and volunteer an answer!

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So in order to keep the faith expanding, they’re risking their flocks by sending them out there to get a ‘broader view’. This may prove fatal. Actually, I’m surprised that LDS is going so strong in the US, but then again, they’re probably all cocooned into their communities and the US is a scary place for youngsters who’re on the religious fringe of society.

Tomas, you didn’t answer my questions about divorce or about the financial and social benefits of being in a close-knit mormon community which I would guess keeps the smartest of folks well-entwined.[/quote]

The mission experience seldom leads people to question their faith. What causes some of us to reconsider the church is going out and experiencing real life (e.g. going to graduate school, getting a job, becoming close with non-members, experiencing difference points of view). These experiences can be very eye-opening, and can lead one to realize that a lot of what is taught by the church is wrong. The missionary experience is very much a fantasy existence in which you are soldier of God sent to fight the devil and save the souls of others. Most people only become more indoctrinated through their missionary experience. Those who question their faith because of it usually had trouble fitting in with the whole program, with all of its rules and discipline.

Okay Alien, sorry. A little thing called work keeps interfering.

Divorce is allowed in the Mormon church, though the elders typically frown upon it, except in cases of abuse or addiction. Yes, my ex-wife remarried, and yes to a Mormon. We had to get what’s called a “temple divorce,” which means that whereas when we were married we were sealed together forever, we are now “unsealed,” which gave her the freedom to be sealed to another man. When the church asked me whether I would agree to the temple divorce, I laughed and said “With all due respect, don’t you realize that if we don’t want to be married to each other in this life, we sure as hell don’t want to be hitched in the hearafter?” They didn’t get the joke.

As for the “socialist system,” I have no idea what you’re talking about. There is a welfare system in place to take care of the poor who need food and clothing, but nobody but the poorest Mormons take advantage of it. There are also employment specialists in each ward (about 400 people make up a ward) who help those who need a job to find one, but there is nothing resembling socialism going on. The Mormons are very big on self-sufficiency and free enterprise, and typically quite thrifty, so there isn’t much need for a security blanket (if one did in fact exist).

There was never any financial benefit to being Mormon, nor was there a security blanket, other than feeling that God would take care of you if you remained faithful. In fact, being a Mormon cost me about $10,000 of my hard earned dollars for my mission, plus 10% of every dollar I earned from the time I started working until the time I left the church. I don’t regret paying what I did. The missionary experience was extremely rewarding (I work in Taiwan now because of it), and the tithes I paid went to pay for temples and churches that my relatives are now using to worship, and which I once used to worship.

Extremists such as polygamists are officially condemned by the church. I personally have no judgment of people who believe in polygamy, as long as the women are of legal age and are not abused in any way. Having said that, my take on polygamy is that I found keeping one wife happy to be enough of a challenge. I can’t imagine wanting to have more than one wife :laughing: .

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maybe starrring tommy cruise, mr reinhold. cruisey is a scientology buff and that’s close to brainwashed too. weird.

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[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]Tomas, I have been interested in this: The garments (underwear) for men has various symbols on them. What are the symbols, where are they on the garments and what do they represent?

[/quote]

Well, I have to be careful here because people I love and respect would be very offended if I answered you too directly. What I wrote about the temple ceremony was pretty general, but enough to give you the general idea. I’ll try to do the same thing here.

Basically, men and women both wear garments, once they’ve been through the temple ceremony. The garments are basically like short-sleeved undershirts on top, with a sort of long brief on the bottom, going down to just above the knee. They come in a variety of fabrics and sizes. Some of you may have seen Mormons in the locker room before and seen them wearing them. There are four symbols sewn into the garments at various points. The symbols are basically Masonic symbols that represent things like health to the body, faith in God, humility and righteousness. They’re supposed to be reminders to the members to keep their commitments to the church. Each symbol is mentioned in the temple endowment ceremony.

Hope that give you enough to satify your curiosity.
There is a book out called “The Godmakers” that goes into great detail on the temple ceremony and the garment symbols.

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[quote=“formosa”]Above poster wrote: “Literally hundreds of Taiwan’s mormons are young gay men who believe the mormon experience will “cure” them.”

Wowsers! IF this is true, this is a major story for the newspapers to investigate! How do u come by this info? is there some rumor among Taiwanese that Mormons can cure homos? If true, this news will be in the NEW YORK TIMEs tomorrow. But first, verify, can you? examples? dish!

Tomas, ever heard of this CURE issue?

My God, this might be the straw that broke the camel’s back if true. I never heard of this before, but u know, formosa’s way slow on the uptake! I just found out the Earth’s not flat a few days ago. Life is one big long learning curve. did u know that SMILES is the longest word in the Englishy language?

Yes. ask me why… and volunteer an answer![/quote]

Nope, never heard of the “cure” theory. One of the Mormon apostles (Boyd K. Packer) usually handles the gay issue in church conferences. He is pretty hard-line about it, saying that those with homosexual tendencies are sinners in the eyes of God, and must repent and change. He has also claimed that there is no medical evidence suggesting that people are born gay. I have a close relative who is a Mormon psychologist who gets pretty pissed off every time he hears that drivel, because his own research has proven that homosexuality is in fact physiologically-determined, and hence natural.

The less hard-line members of the church leadership view homosexuality as a cross that gay members must bear. They are told never to act on their tendencies, and to wait until the next life, when God will “heal” them.

I know, I know. I think it’s a load of crap too.

And formosa, I’m not defending the church in earlier posts. I’m just refuting some of your inaccurate claims. I feel no attachment to the church anymore, except when it comes to my relatives and friends who are still members. They deserve respect and the right to pursue their beliefs as they wish. I don’t feel anger or pain about my experiences. I recognize them for what they were; part of my personal growth process, or one stage in my personal evolution. Hope that makes sense.

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I think you’ll find that the symbols on the clothing, if connected with lines, make the shape of a pentagram, or so I’ve been told.

The secret handshakes are a blast though.

People are people and there are a lot of great sincere Mormon’s out there. Forget about what I wrote in the “mormon missionary experience thread”, I am much more balanced these days.

34

tomas, to get back to one thing you said, with all due respect, you are right: people stay in a church or a cult or any group, even this forum, for emotional reasons, becauses they find comfort and succor and release and emotional belonging there, NOT because it is rational or logical etc.

So we have perfectly nice people staying inside the doors of oppressive Christianity, oppressive Islam, oppressive Jewishism, oppressive Scientology Heaven’s Gate Mormoniism Hinduism SHinotism … because they find solace and comfort there, and I do respect that. I respect the need for humans to find comfort somewhere in this godforsaken world!

But I also find all these religions totally revolting and assinine and I am glad you got out of the church in time to experience DIY the pleasures of the flesh, and the wonder of the open mind. You obviously didn’'t need the emotional coddling. Why? Cause you no baby anymore. You matured out of that one. Good on ya!

I have a good friend who is a Jesuit and I feel so sorry for him, because to tell the truth, he confides in me, he loves women, he craves them, but he can’t break his vows. For now. I keep urging him to leave the Church and experience a good fuck! At least once before he goes to Jesus. He said he will consider it. I mean, if God had really wanted men to be celibate, he would have created celibate people. But he didn’t. He created horny randy sensualists like you and me and omni and alien and everyone else here aboard the Starship Formosa. Gay, strait or transgendered, the goal in life is to connect, goddamn it, connect above all else!

Celibacy is pure idiocy.

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After a storm of silliness, formosa comes up with this beautifully, logically reasoned nugget of truth about the human need for congress with other humans:

[quote=“formosa”]

I have a good friend who is a Jesuit and I feel so sorry for him, because to tell the truth, he confides in me, he loves women, he craves them, but he can’t break his vows. For now. I keep urging him to leave the Church and experience a good fuck! At least once before he goes to Jesus. He said he will consider it. I mean, if God had really wanted men to be celibate, he would have created celibate people. But he didn’t. He created horny randy sensualists like you and me and omni and alien and everyone else here aboard the Starship Formosa. Gay, strait or transgendered, the goal in life is to connect, goddamn it, connect above all else!

Celibacy is pure idiocy.[/quote]

Formosa, you must be a great dinner date :slight_smile: .

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Tomas wrote: “I don’t feel anger or pain about my experiences. I recognize them for what they were; part of my personal growth process, or one stage in my personal evolution. Hope that makes sense.”

yes, it does, Tomas, makes perfect sense, and I truly sincerely respect your POV. Don’t mind my inaccuracies. i make them not on purpose but out of ignorance. today, thanks you, I learn somethine new every day and you have enlightened us more than you know.

Yes, your relatives deserve their happiness with the Church. I respect that too.

I just wish the whole damn enterprise of human artificial religion would go away someday and let us human have fun!

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Yeah, you’re a real friend. Lucky him. :unamused:

This coming from our very own village idiot. :smiling_imp:

BTW, there’s a 10 page thread on the Mormon Missionary Experience here.

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Maoman, I see you haven’t lost your ikky edge. Still the same old grouch, lesser improved. But there’s hope for u yet. Just watch, some day you are going to lose the edge and become a kind uncle and people will actually like you. Soon.

But seriously, Maomeany, you judged me before I could state the entire case. This Jesuit guy really really wants to experience some carnal pleasure, not as a sin, but as an experience, and he has told me he actually appreciates my concern and my advice. I am not making this up. I am not telling HIM to leave the church, he is telling me he WANTS to leave the church. big difference.

As for the being the village i.dot.com, well, you got me there, as usual. But are you thereby defending celibacy? There is absolutely no meaning or reason for it in the church. Jesus never said so. It was the puritan church pappas who said so. Jesus said LET’S ROLL! Jesus said LETS ROCK AND ROLL. He never said LET’S KEEP OUR PANTS ZIPPED UP. never. he even did it.

Yours as ever,

Zee Village Idiot

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Whatever you say. :?

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[quote=“formosa”]Maoman, I see you haven’t lost your ikky edge. Still the same old grouch, lesser improved. But there’s hope for u yet. Just watch, some day you are going to lose the edge and become a kind uncle and people will actually like you. Soon.

But seriously, Maomeany, you judged me before I could state the entire case. This Jesuit guy really really wants to experience some carnal pleasure, not as a sin, but as an experience, and he has told me he actually appreciates my concern and my advice. I am not making this up. I am not telling HIM to leave the church, he is telling me he WANTS to leave the church. big difference.

As for the being the village i.dot.com, well, you got me there, as usual. But are you thereby defending celibacy? There is absolutely no meaning or reason for it in the church. Jesus never said so. It was the puritan church pappas who said so. Jesus said LET’S ROLL! Jesus said LETS ROCK AND ROLL. He never said LET’S KEEP OUR PANTS ZIPPED UP. never. he even did it.

Yours as ever,

Zee Village Idiot[/quote]

In the time of Jesus, celibacy would have been considered a sin. Jesus was also a rabbi and if I remember correctly, unmarried rabbis were either frowned upon (considered strange) or not allowed.