Motorbike Safety Training Courses

Life Cars & Motorcycles
21

[quote=“joesax”][quote=“x08”]… on a side note… i’ve noticed that driving “safely” here is quite often just as dangerous as not safely… because people expect you to do stupid and dangerous things, and your “safe” driving/riding just interrupts the flow of traffic…[/quote]I think I more or less agree with you in principle but not in the way you’ve expressed it. Doing stupid and dangerous things is of course stupid and dangerous wherever you are.

Driving safely means being aware of the all-round road situation, predicting what’s going to happen next, and planning what you’re going to do about it. It does involve some degree of flexibility. Of course if fixating on a particular pattern of driving leads to more danger for yourself and others, then that’s not safe driving, it’s dangerous driving.[/quote]

for example… not flooring it the moment the lights turn orange? slowing down before turning onto another road? keeping in YOUR lane despite the fact that the stupid lanes aren’t even straight?

… and as for predicting what’s gunna happen… well… we try our best, but they ride/drive so unpredictably here that it can be difficult sometimes… though this primarily refers to old people, wannabe gangsters, taxi and bus drivers and mothers with more diamond rings than her children have underwear combined…

the only real SAFE way to drive here is either a) don’t drive, or b) floor it until you’re in front of everyone else and stay in front at a nice distance, dead in the centre of your directional side of the road (ie. on the line for 2 lanes your way) to keep the maximum clearance on each sid…

as such, i support the idea of the safety course… but i also agree that the majority of taiwanese won’t be interested… there’s nothing wrong riding the wrong side of a high speed road where the wrong side is the INSIDE corner with absoloutely no visibility… on your 50cc scooter that hasn’t had it’s oil changed in 5 years, and a toddler STANDING in the footwell… oh and don’t forget, helmets are only there to keep the cops off your back, not for safety… same goes for mirrors…

22

For all that Forumosans and foreigners in general complain about Taiwanese riding/driving, I would have thought this thread would have got more support, or at least a bit less of the ‘nah, won’t work, sod off’ attitude.

Yes, there are always a million hair-brained schemes going on in Taiwan that never go anywhere but if Stefan does manage to get something off the ground with genuinely experienced instructors then I for one would jump at the chance to benefit. If it’s pushed as a for-foreigners thing instead of yanky-doodle-is-here-to-show-you-how-it’s-done then maybe at least a few Taiwanese riders will get jealous and come along for the face value/English show-off potential/whatever. I certainly know plenty of Taiwanese scooter/bike/big bike riders of all abilities who would feel no shame in learning from this kind of course.

23

Two things saved my ass in Taiwan.

The abilety to observe trafick and plan ahead.

The abilety to brake a 750 from 60km/h to full stop in 3 meters.

I finished the closed track part off the big bike course and had started driving on public roads with instructor befour education forced me to quit, but the things I learned was knocked so hard into my head that is will stick with me forever. :notworthy:

I think all Taiwanese would join a course if there was anny benefit from being thought by a smart ass white jerk. eatch pay 100 buck and the one wining a driver competition later get the jackpot. All off them will join because they all think they could beat Valentino Rossi.

Or the other thing I mentioned about having a inshurance company offer a reduction in the payment for taking the course.

24

3 metres? Are you sure?

25

the whole deal with the insurance companies sounds like a good idea, much like MSF endorsement… but i’m still not aware of any insurance companies for big bikes ~~ only cars and scoots

PS. i would love to join the course if it was a qualified instructor… i know i still have a lot to learn… especially about emergency braking

26

3 metres? Are you sure?[/quote]

15meters in Taipei because the roads are soaked in cheap (multismoke) two stroke oil from betlenut oil company. :loco:

A taiwanese nead 30meters because there rider manual tell you not to use the front brake :astonished:

I’m quite shure it was 3 meters, but the speed could be 50km/h.

It’s ben 5years and I have not friven annything other than scooters since that.

As long as the front tyre don’t slip and the tail don’t get off the ground you can stop in a exstremly short distance. I gues this could variable alot on tyre and asphalt qualety and deposits on it+ temperature witch could vary from country to country.

27

i’m quite happy that this tread isn’t dead yet and more and more show interest in it.
would you be happy with an instructor from england (i’ve just flown him in :notworthy: ) to be your coach? i’m certainly more than happy that he is willing to play this part and we’ll let you interested folks know shortly how we proceed.

please check this place from time to time because now we’re going to get serious about it - maybe in a small scale but better that than nothing, am i right?

have a nice day

28

[quote=“x08”]… and as for predicting what’s gunna happen… well… we try our best, but they ride/drive so unpredictably here that it can be difficult sometimes… though this primarily refers to old people, wannabe gangsters, taxi and bus drivers and mothers with more diamond rings than her children have underwear combined…

the only real SAFE way to drive here is either a) don’t drive, or b) floor it until you’re in front of everyone else and stay in front at a nice distance, dead in the centre of your directional side of the road (ie. on the line for 2 lanes your way) to keep the maximum clearance on each sid…[/quote]Developing the three stages of situational awareness has improved my riding. The second stage of prediction really means going through all the possibilities in your mind. Obviously this needs to become an automatic, “felt” thing because as a fully conscious process it’s just too slow. Paradoxically, this prediction may actually be a little easier here than in western countries because all kinds of strange situations do occur here on a regular basis. In a country where people generally drive better, you can get lulled into a false sense of security so that the 1% of the time that something does happen, you’re not ready for it.

[quote=“x08”]the only real SAFE way to drive here is either a) don’t drive, or b) floor it until you’re in front of everyone else and stay in front at a nice distance, dead in the centre of your directional side of the road (ie. on the line for 2 lanes your way) to keep the maximum clearance on each sid…[/quote]As I said, the final stage of planning what you’re actually going to do should involve some flexibility.

However, if the only defensive riding skills you feel able to implement are what you described, I suppose it’s better than nothing.

29

while i will agree with what you say joe, it brings to memory an old near-miss i had…

was coming up behind this old guy on a scooter… he was clearly turning left at the intersection ahead… he was moving over left and yes - he turned left… but then, for some reason, halfway through his turn he decided he was supposed to turn right, not left… and so promptly turned back again…

luckily i have enough perception to notice this as he did it, because i managed to drop down to an angle that would make rossi jealous and just manage to scrape past…

yes, some things about perception can be taught, but it’s more something that needs to be learnt over time…

Stefan> i’m interested… but i don’t have time to get to taipei atm… any chance for a taichung session?

30

The people most interested in this all seem to be down here in Taichung… so screw Taipei :slight_smile:

31

i think taichung is definately possible. we just need a place where we can do it, a big parking place or even better a track, go-cart maybe. can you recommend one (hopefully without a renting fee)?

i’m getting together with the instructor-to-be next tuesday and discuss a few things, he’s got some nice new ideas as well and we’ll see from there on how and when the first session will take place. invite your buddies and wifes, the more the merrier.
guys from taipei and somewhere in between - how about going down to taichung together and having fun there for a weekend? all suggestions are welcome.

hope to see you soon, guys
be safe

32

there’s a big parking lot… and i mean BIG on tai-yuan rd. not sure how to find out about renting fees or anything… but i’ve never seen cars parked inside, and there must be a way to get bikes in there, as there’s often scooters practicing there on sunday…

33

[quote=“Stefan”]i’m getting together with the instructor-to-be next tuesday and discuss a few things, he’s got some nice new ideas as well and we’ll see from there on how and when the first session will take place.[/quote]Who is he? What qualifications does he have? Will he be charging for his services? If so, I assume he’s set up the necessary insurance, etc.

Sorry to be picky but I think it’s important for people to know whether this is a case of a guy giving a few tips to others out of the kindness of his heart, or whether this is real, organised, qualified and insured training.

34

well, seems its time to tell…
a few of you might know him, some in person, some as dangermouse here in this forum.
he offered to help me out as an istructor since he received a training from the police in the uk (or has been a moto-cop, don’t want to mess up things so its better to let him explain…). please step forward :notworthy:

anyhow, he knows a thing or two about safety and riding skills. i’m afraid many will just regard it as ‘get together to exchange ideas and experiences’ only - which isn’t a bad thing either - but not a training as the word suggests. but that shall not put you off, either way we can only profit from each other. and, and here lies my respect for him and my regards, he is the only one that came forward and offered to help. so if anyone complains, they’ll have their chance to make it better.

at least in the beginning, when we still fall flat down on our noses and making our experiences how to run this idea, we won’t be able to issue certificates and points to the applicants. but, i received a fair amount of thumbs-up from magazines and even my company, that engages in this kind of training back in germany itself - but not here, yet. maybe in the future when they see that there is any interest and progress. then we’ll be able to bring it to the next level and actually employ (in the wi(l)dest meaning of this word) an instructor with written applications and liabilities and insructions and training material. its all already been worked out. i prepared the necessary forms and all - so far only in english available, though.

as for insurance and the lot: for now everything is at own risk - just like being on the street. i’m sure we wont teach/practice stuff that sees your bike being crashed into the wall, but if it happens (and that includes me myself and the missus as well; i am just the initiator) - its at our own risk and costs. for now, i might add again. in the future… who knows, maybe the insurance companies realize the advantage and actually support as well and reduce the premium sum you have to pay annually after showing them my certificate :blush: - you never know. (but admittingly, i will not live long enough to see that day…)

if all can agree to these terms or have even better ideas, everything is welcome. we can then actually get started and try to find a time and schedule. let me know what you think, regardless wether you support this idea or not.

looking forward to meet you guys

35

OK,

Well first I had better let everyone know my driving credentials;

In the UK I am a hold valid licences to drive motorcycles of any displacement.

During my time in the police force I became a response and pursuit driver for cars and a response driver for vehicles up to 12 tonnes.
The driver training is very, very high and focuses alot on observation, risk assessment, safety and vehicle handling.

The course allows me to:

*  Demonstrate competence in systemised driving at all speeds
* Demonstrate competence in the smooth control of the vehicle
* Demonstrate confidence when driving in all weather conditions
* Demonstrate an ability and understanding of high speed driving on motorways and dual carriageways
* Correctly carry out a pre-drive check of the vehicle
* Apply the knowledge and understanding required to correctly position a vehicle when stopping/checking vehicles etc.
 * Tactical pursuit driving.
 * Accident control.

During my time in the police I expressed a desire to move into the motorcycle unit. To enhance the chances that I would be selected, I enrolled in the Bikesafe initiative. Although I was not an instructor, I took a special course so that I could give classroom based lectures about safety, first aid, hazard awareness and perception, and theory regarding vehicle (motorcycle) handling. This also included the attitude of other road users towards motorcyclists. However, this was only on a part time basis when operational manpower was sufficient. I never instructed on the road using a motorcycle during my time with this initiative.

Now very unfortunately for me, 2 weeks into my training to become a police motorcyclist, government cutbacks and the restructuring of the police service resulted in my training being cut short after stage 1 to be commenced at a later date…and shortly after that I left the police.

However, I am trained (amongst others) in the following:

* Safe systemised driving at all speeds
* Skid control
* Motorway driving
* Pre-driving checks
* Evidential commentary
* Night time driving
* Defensive use of motorcycles
* Pursuit training (initial phase)
* Directed patrolling
* Use of emergency blue lights and sirens
* Attitudinal/response/urgent duty driving

Now, please be aware that I am not a qualified motorcycle instructor or police motorcycle instructor, but I feel that I have enough knowledge in this area to pass on skills and knowledge to those that want it here in Taiwan.
However, I am qualified to instruct road safety awareness and riding/driving tactics.
I am not charging for this and will use some of my own free time to pass on the knowledge and experience I have gained.

I have been working out how to apply my knowledge to the driving situation in Taiwan - of course, riding in the UK and riding in Taiwan are completely different. It is therefore my wish to design a very short course involving all the risk assements/safety procedures I have learned and then apply them to Taiwan’s driving conditions.

I think Stefan has a very good idea here. There is no good formal driver training in Taiwan and for foreigners who take to the roads on scooters and motorcycles in Taiwan (often the very fIrst time they have ever ridden a motorcycle in their life) I hope we can help to minimize the risks presented by the traffic in Taiwan and also coach on the basic operating principles, maintenance and use of motorcycles and associated riding skills.

Ideally, I would like to have a qualified, certified instructor to present the course - perhaps in time - but at the moment, this is the only way to get this project off the ground.

We look forward to your support. If anyone else thinks that they can offer their experience or knowledge pertaining to the operation of a motorcycle then we would be very glad to accept your input and time. I for one know there are many well trained, experienced riders on these boards - most of them have been riding longer than I have been in existence :laughing:

36

nice resume :bravo:

i’ll prepare some flyers (and underline the use of blue light and siren :smiley: )
next weekend we’ll have a guided tour in the alishan range near chiayi again and i believe some guys of that group might be interested as well…

so, we have a place (X08, can you check the parking lot that you mentioned for accessability again, please?), we’ll set up a schedule, and all we need now is who would like to take part, what kind of driving skill you have (beginner, advanced, even more advanced…), what bike (for better grouping) and other expectations you have.

send a message to me or DM and we’ll see from there

37

[quote=“Dangermouse”]
However, I am trained (amongst others) in the following:

* Safe systemised driving at all speeds
* Skid control
* Motorway driving
* Pre-driving checks
* Evidential commentary
* Night time driving
* Defensive use of motorcycles
* Pursuit training (initial phase)
* Directed patrolling
* Use of emergency blue lights and sirens
* Attitudinal/response/urgent duty driving[/quote]

You forgot one:

* How to survive being knocked over a cliff by a rockslide while riding :smiley:
38

I’ll admit to having been a bit cautious, even cynical, but now I know that DM is doing this I feel completely different about it. I am sure that anything he is involved in will be well organised and of very good quality.

[quote=“Stefan”]…so, we have a place (X08, can you check the parking lot that you mentioned for accessability again, please?)[/quote]X08, which car park is that?

I think the place could still be a bit of a sticking point. I don’t see car park owners being very happy about letting their space be used by a bunch of bikers!

39

I’m really sad that I no longer own a streetbike.

40

[quote=“joesax”]I’ll admit to having been a bit cautious, even cynical, but now I know that DM is doing this I feel completely different about it. I am sure that anything he is involved in will be well organised and of very good quality.

[quote=“Stefan”]…so, we have a place (X08, can you check the parking lot that you mentioned for accessability again, please?)[/quote]X08, which car park is that?

I think the place could still be a bit of a sticking point. I don’t see car park owners being very happy about letting their space be used by a bunch of bikers![/quote]

hmmm… i’ll try to check it out… but no idea who to ask about renting it out or somewhat…

joesax > do you live in taichung? if so, it’s up TaiYuan Rd… if you’re heading out towards daken (away from the city) it’ll be on your left… it’s huge and empty… i don’t think i’ve ever seen any cars parked there… not that i can see why they would want to either… there’s nothing there…