Motorcycle touring

Travel Taiwan Travel
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I still haven’t finished the Thailand addition to my website. But there’s something else I wanted to post about that I won’t put on the site (because family members read it including my mother, and you know how mothers worry). When I was in Thailand I came off the bike - not badly, but enough to make me very grateful for my protective gear and to rethink aspects of my riding technique.

I was coming down a mountain and was a bit tired (having got up at 4 a.m. to ride up the mountain to get back the camera I’d accidentally left up there the night before, then done a bit more sightseeing). It had made my leg a bit cramped to cover the back brake with my foot, so I wasn’t doing so. I was coming round a tight left-hand corner when a pickup track came barrelling up on the other side. He was within his own lane, but I was surprised enough to pull the front brake quite firmly. The dual front discs bit, the wheel locked and the bike went down (lowside - front end slid out & bike was in front of me). I think the bike slid about 7 meters - me about 5. The very surprised pickup driver and his mates helped me and the bike up and made sure that things were OK before driving on.

On inspection, the Cordura (tough, abrasion-resistant material) on my jacket was worn completely through at the edge of the elbow armour. Had I not been wearing it, I would have had severe grazing and possibly bone abrasion. My Cordura pants were a bit scuffed and because the knee armour wasn’t firmly in place, my knee ached for a day (but was fine after).

The front forks of the bike were bent and needed to be fixed before any more serious riding. I took it pretty slowly down rest of the mountain to the little town where we were staying (if you’re wondering where my brother was- he had taken the Honda Baja up a long dirt road for the morning). Our wonderful landlady’s cousin ran a bike shop and they managed to fix it by lunchtime the next day.

It made me think about my riding techniques. The immediate cause of the accident was that the combined braking and cornering forces were on the front wheel and the tyre slipped out. If I had used a combination of back brake and a little front, it probably wouldn’t have happened. Alternatively, I could have just tightened the turn a little and cornered without any braking - there was enough space because as I said the pickup was within his own lane.

There was a physical and a mental lesson I learned. The physical one was that when coming downhill, or on the level, I should always cover the back brake with my foot. I should get used to using the brakes in combination- my brother recommended me to try thinking of it as a right-side-of-body action, rather than a hand or foot one. I should also consider the balance of braking - most times a bias towards more front brake is better, but sometimes, as in this accident, an equal balance or even a slight bias towards back brake would be better. To aid this, when coming down steep hills I started to cover the front brake with only two fingers, to reduce the force that could be applied, even in a panic reaction situation.

The mental lesson I learned was really a development of the process of anticipation and defensive riding. I realised once again that when riding a motorcycle, there is no time when one can afford to be complacent. I thought I had the road to myself and my panic at suddenly seeing the pickup caused the accident. Simple anticipation of situations defuses panic reactions and enables better decisions to be made.

Connected with this is something called ‘target fixation’ which I have read about on motorcycle safety and advanced riding sites. Target fixation is that situation when something is coming towards you and you panic and kind of ‘lock on’ to the thing, unable to make a rational decision to turn left or right to avoid it. On motorcycle safety courses they give you tips that can help avoid this, but for myself, for the moment, I’ve just been focusing more on my anticipation and defensive riding techniques. So sometimes when I’m riding I’ll think to myself ‘What if somebody is coming the wrong way down this road just round this corner; what will I do? Is there anyone coming up behind me who might be trying to overtake me? Would there be space on the inside?’ I think that conscious practice of this kind of thinking can help the body’s automatic reactions when things do get tricky. It’s all about instilling habits.

Hope this has been of some interest/use and I haven’t bored everybody.

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Thanks Almas. I’ll look into that.

You being in Chiayi is pretty convenient for the Southern Cross-Island, which starts just down the road in Tainan county I believe. Also, the start of the road is close to Zhengwen reservoir, a place I have been past but not seen because it was too dark.

Have you been there or any other of the places Feiren mentions? You could certainly do Zhengwen on a scooter - don’t know about the Southern Cross - depends on your scooter.

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I had posted about motorcycle touring over on the taiwanfun forum in May but heard nothing since, so was very surprised to see quite an aggressive post from a ‘serious sports rider’. I wasn’t quite sure how to reply to him; I didn’t want to fan the flames, but on the other hand I didn’t want to leave his points unchallenged. I have never hidden the fact that I am quite a cautious rider but I don’t think my caution means that I ride dangerously, as he suggests.

The original post, the ‘flame’ and my reply are here;
taiwanfun.com/phpBBen/viewto … highlight=

What do you think?
By the way, if you post there could I suggest not linking back to here? This thread has been very constructive and friendly so far and I’d be sad to see it descend into flames like so many others. If he finds this place on his own then so be it but I for one don’t want to encourage him.

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I did the Southern Cross on a rented 125 cc scooter with two people. No problem at all. On a previous trip I saw people on bigger sport bikes racing.

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That proves what I’ve said all along; that you can do motorcycle touring on just about any machine. OK, a 50cc might be pushing it for the Southern Cross-Island (although I’m sure somebody’s done it at one time or another), but in general, all one needs to do is get one’s machine checked out mechanically, then hop on and go wherever you like!
I’m not sure what Mr. ‘Serious Sport Rider’ on the other forum would say about that, though :wink:

[quote=“Feiren”]On a previous trip I saw people on bigger sport bikes racing.[/quote] Well, I hope they weren’t actually racing. The track is the place for that.

By the way, the Lonely Planet mentions three hostels alond the Southern Cross-Island. Have you seen all of those? Is Yakou the best place to stay and to break the journey?

I forgot to say thanks to Traveller for his interesting post above, and welcome. Does anybody in that riding group ride a 150? I’d certainly be interested in tagging along for a bit, if they come down our way.

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They were definitely racing.

I have only seen the hostel at Yakou. There are ads for hostels (民宿 Min2su4) along they way at Lidao and Motian. I think Yakou is probably ideal though. In the high mountains you usually get the best weather eary in the morning before 10:00 AM. After that the fog often sets in. The best views are on the Kaohsiong side of Yakou (the pass), so you could hit those right after breakfast if you stayed at the Yakou hostel.

BTW I was easily able to hit 40 km on the steepest sections on the 125 I was riding. I don’t see how you could go faster safely.

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Enjoyed your reply to the flamer.

My quick take - defensive riding is always best, but riding slowly is not always defensive. In the UK riding test, the instructors require you to ride “to the speed limit” and “to make progress”. Being overtaken by cars increases your risk (of being cut up by a flamer probably)!

There’s no excuse for not wearing a decent lid.

About those guys you saw on big bikes who might have been racing…pretty dumb really, but if you’d seen me on some of the trips I’ve done, you might have thought I was racing too. Actually, in the group I usually ride with, we only ride fast on roads we know well, with top-class safety gear, only with other riders whose skill level and riding style we know, and we usually employ a “no overtaking” rule. We ride very quickly (but don’t race), using the machines as they are meant to be used, while limiting “offs”. Still, it’s not very responsible and we don’t see much scenery during the blatt, but it’s very, very good fun (if that’s what gives you a kick).

If you know what you are doing on a big bike, regular and, I stress, safe speeds will be considerably higher than on a 150cc or in a car, although a determined 125cc rider could give any big bike a hard time in the twisties!

All that said and done, I find it can be just as much fun thrashing the nuts off a 150cc, 'cos you can really take it to the limit - more than can be said for the big Jap bikes. But there’s the comfort factor of a big bike…and the straight line acceleration. :smiley:

I do a lot more riding on my own these days so I can take in Taiwan’s mind-blowing scenery too. I prefer the larger seat and power/brakes of my big bike to a 125/150cc, although the smaller bikes are perfectly adequate. I have riden a 150cc around the island and it was very unforgiving on the bum cheeks!

May I second the motion that this is an excellent thread? Thanks.

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Thanks for your kind comments. I like Sandman’s post after mine on that thread - it’s very constructive and doesn’t denigrate the other poster.

This is a really interesting topic (to me, anyway!) I wish I’d had the chance to do my bike test in the UK, but I only did the car one. The principle in that is the same, though; you have to keep up with traffic, make progress and drive to the speed limit if appropriate. My driving instructor was an 80-year old lady who had first learned to drive at the age of 13, in her dad’s car on a private road. She was good. She was strict and had a high pass rate. One time she made me overtake an ambulance (it wasn’t doing an emergency job, though) because it was doing 65 in a 70 limit. The ambulance driver got mad at this learner overtaking him and proceeded to re-overtake us.

In a car, in the UK, I drive at an average speed. I overtake quite a few people when safe, but some people overtake me (about half of them are really going too fast for the conditions, though). I suppose I’m one of those rare people who actually took note of the braking distances chart on the back of the Highway Code. I wasn’t always that sensible. When I was eighteen, I drove too fast and was lucky not to have any serious accidents. The only one I had was accomplished at the princely speed of 5 miles an hour, but I managed to trash the entire left bodywork of my father’s car! (I was on a single-track bridge with high steel plate sides; I pulled left to give a pedestrian space but didn’t notice that at the end of the bridge the steel plate was folded in at a right angle and jutted out six inches. By way of consolation, the Weymouth harbourmaster, whose bridge it was, told me that quite a few people had had the same accident and they were considering painting the jutting-out metal yellow to avoid this happening again).

I’m not entirely decided about the speed issue for city motorcycle/scooter riding on Taiwan. My feeling at the moment is that if you have very good defensive riding skills, a lot of experience and a high level of technical skill then yes, you can afford to take it quicker. But I have none of the above and I’m sure readers will agree that neither do the vast majority of riders on Taiwan whether foreigners or locals.

Keeping to a slower speed, if you have average skills like mine, exponentially reduces your chance of having an accident. I don’t mean stupidly slow - of course you should be overtaking the people who put-put along at 20kmh. But crucially, there should be a bit of distance between you and the vehicles in front (and, if possible those to the front left and front right). It is a matter of physics. If you are hanging off somebody’s bumper, or just by the back corner, you have very little time indeed to react should they brake suddenly or change course into your path.

This does mean that some scooter riders and a few cars will be overtaking you, sometimes dangerously. But there’s an important aspect to the Taiwanese driving style that protects you to some extent. As everybody has noticed, people often do not check to see what’s behind them before pulling out or changing lanes. This means that people are used to looking out in front for danger. I believe (although I have no figures for it) that there are comparatively few rear-ender accidents in Taiwan as a result of this.

Opinions please!

You are very honest. We should all be so honest. Motorcycling is never going to be completely safe. It’s a lot of fun, though and it’s basically up to each person where he/she draws the lines.

That’s interesting. I think that your comment about safe speeds being higher refers to proper two-lane roads with some degree of forward visibility (although you still never know whether somebody may be coming along the wrong lane towards you). You state that you must ‘know what you are doing’; I agree that just having a big bike is not enough; having the experience and skills is vital.

And what you say about a determined 125cc rider refers to the kind of situation where you have single-lane mountain roads with a lot of blind corners, provided that your bike has decent brakes and tyres. See Feiren’s comment above; there are plenty of corners (perhaps especially in central/southern Taiwan) where it’s not safe whatever you’re riding to go above 40kmh.

One more thing - the concept of ‘accelerating out of danger’ certainly has its place in our repertoire of defensive riding techniques. But in the conditions we face here (and especially if we’re riding 150cc bikes or smaller) it has to be used with caution. There is a risk that, while we are leaving one dangerous situation behind, we are approaching another one, and at a much higher velocity than would otherwise have been the case.

Have you heard of those guys in the States who do ‘Iron Butt’ rallies? I wonder how they’d cope riding my Yamaha FZ150 castration machine round Taiwan!

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[quote]dog wrote:
I have riden a 150cc around the island and it was very unforgiving on the bum cheeks!

Have you heard of those guys in the States who do ‘Iron Butt’ rallies? I wonder how they’d cope riding my Yamaha FZ150 castration machine round Taiwan![/quote]
My cat has finally succeeded in converting her new scratching post (the formerly extremely comfortable saddle of my Dragfire) into a fully absorbent sponge that keeps my arse soaked no matter how dry and sunny the weather.
I’m interested in replacing it with a gel saddle. Any idea if these are available here?

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Yes they are. I have one on the FZ. To be precise, it transforms it from a fully-fledged castration machine to a mere instrument of genital and posterior torture.

I’m sure I could sort one out for you in Taichung if you needed; I think they’re made by small companies or individuals. Would you like me to ask Eric (certified Yamaha mechanic) about it?

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Yes I would. Can you find out how to say it in Chinese (not characters as this computer doesn’t recognize them). I’m sure my Yamaha mech. could get one for me if I know what to ask for. Cheers.

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Just got off the phone with the man himself.

It’s something like fang2hua2 zuo4dian4 (fang2hua2 is gel, zuo4dian4 saddle).

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oh dear… it seems our friend Louis from Taiwan Fun, has his facts about as crooked as a Taiwanese politician… actually i though he was just trolling, and was about to flame him, bit Joesax and Sandman’s posts put him in his place with far more tact and diplomacy…

Just for the record:

Er… is that your final answer?.. actually since it’s inception in 1987 the CBR600 has always been a 599cc, in-line 4… despite various model updates over the years, CBR600’s in all their guises have been 599cc, liquid cooled, in-line 4’s without exception…

hmmm… unfortunately for Louis’ active imagination, the CBR600 only got the suffix “RR” for the 2003 model update… Louis says he

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Thanks for the support, Plasmatronic and everybody. Actually, Louis apologised very nicely and in the end he made a couple of decent points, so, a good guy after all.

Plasma, I’ve been thinking about what you wrote about brakes. The drums on my old SR150 weren’t too bad and did have some progression, but I do prefer the disc on the FZ. I was talking to my mechanic and he said it would be easy to swap in the front shocks and wheel of an FZR, the newer model which has dual discs. We’d keep the FZ’s original forks though so we kept the height. I think we’d look for the wheel in a scrapyard but go for brand new shocks - my existing front shocks are up for replacement in any case.
I’m kind of reluctant to spend the money, especially as I might sell the FZ on in a year or so. Do you really think it’s worth it? The existing single disc will stop pretty quickly if I pull the lever hard enough, although over a longer ride my hand gets a bit strained. Would having dual discs reduce the effort required?
Also, front end slides are nastier than back end ones - is it risky to increase front braking power too much?

Interesting news - my mechanic says that Taiwanese manufacturers CPI are planning a 225 enduro bike which will be road legal and hopefully will be on sale next year at a cost of around 120,000NT. Sounds very nice especially for the back roads near me, but it’s still a lot of money and the seat might be a bit high for me. Worth keeping an eye on, though.

I think I saw Jeremy in his bike shop in a very brief slot on TVBS news. I think they were doing a feature on small businesses using computers or something like that.

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I’m not sure double discs on the front of an FZ are going to improve things much. There’s just not enough tyre and therefore not enough friction to make use of the increased braking power. Also, the FZ is a bit front-heavy, and dives quite dramatically on factory forks. I think the FZ corners well, but I’m not sure the weight distribution is optimal. They had to make it a twin, and I think it’s too heavy. I have a fear over-braking it will turn it into a unicycle. I don’t know - just my guess.

By the time my front wheel starts to squeal in the dry I’m almost doing a stoppie anyway - any more and it would be arse over tit territory. In the wet of course braking power is not an issue. Control is. Is your caliper in need of replacing ? Perhaps a better way to spend those $$$. I imagine they’re fairly pricey ? Steel braided brake pipes ? (are your pipes like a piano accordion?) A new reservoir ? (NT$1500) A new disc ? Better pads ? Just a thought…

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Joesax:

Think you would be far better served by replacing your rear drum with it’s FZR disc counterpart…agree with Hexuan that a single disc is more than adequate for a bike of that size.

If you need more than one finger to slow you down in front than something is amiss with your existing front disc. Have you ever changed the Caliper?

From what I’ve seen, drum to disc changes are a real hassle…Joesax, you are lucky that the exchange will be far less complicated between the FZ and FZR.

Start hitting those junkyards… :wink:

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Thanks guys.

[quote=“hexuan”]I’m not sure double discs on the front of an FZ are going to improve things much. There’s just not enough tyre and therefore not enough friction to make use of the increased braking power.
[/quote]That’s what I was worried about.

[quote=“Michael J Botti”]If you need more than one finger to slow you down in front than something is amiss with your existing front disc. Have you ever changed the Caliper?[/quote]That I had to do a quick search just to find out what a caliper was should give you your answer!

My dad once had a piano accordion so at least I know what one of those looks like :wink:
I’ll look into all those things - caliper and pads first. When my mate got his SYM new, the single front disc felt great - really progressive and easy to operate. A year later it feels a bit spongy and unresponsive - the same as mine.

Michael, getting a back disc is a nice idea but even though the similarity FZ-FZR would make it easier, I think it could still be a big job. I’ll bear it in mind but I’m a bit hesitant because I’m not sure how long I’ll keep the FZ.

[quote=“hexuan”]…the FZ is a bit front-heavy, and dives quite dramatically on factory forks.[/quote]When I change the front shocks, I’m going to ask Eric to put in heavier oil than normal to increase the damping. Hopefully it won’t dive so much then.

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ah yes… the joys of taiwanese engineering efficiency and attention to detail, sometimes i wonder just how far they can stretch the ‘just barely adequate for today, but tomorrow you’re on your own’ design and engineering philosophy…

actually joesax, i completely agree with Hexuan and Michael J about your disc dilemma…

if that’s the case, then there’s no need to get double discs… If you’re interested in improving stopping power without too much expense, then all of Hexuan’s suggestions regarding new hoses, calipers, pads and reservoir are well worth persuing… also in my personal experience with the above mentioned slack taiwanese engineering, i’ve found that a common culprit for front brakes becoming "spongy and unresponsive " is the brake lever itself… cheaply made from soft alloy, the tip part of the lever which actually pushes down onto the hydraulic piston bit below the reservoir, gets worn down and bent over time meaning that even if the rest of your brake system is shiny and new, you’ve just not got the leverage to apply enough psi to your fluid, hence impaired braking performance… it’s easy to check, just pull the bolt, take out the lever and check it for wear…

completely unrelated, but on the topic of the thread in general, last weekend i had the immense pleasure of taking a mates CB400 V-Tech out into the mountains of central taiwan to investigate the is “400cc enough for taiwan” question that has been dogging me of late… 200km of practical evaluation and around 4 hours later, i’m happy to report that 400cc, especially with V-Tech, is more than enough to keep you grinning like a fool under your tinted visor, but innitial empirical results strongly suggest that if 400cc is good, then 600cc would be ‘really’ good, and if 600cc is ‘really’ good, then…

anyway, once i find my map and can figure out which roads i took ( i stumbled upon some ‘wonderful’ stretches) i will post more details…

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Thanks Plasmatron.
Eric’s a quick mover. On the phone today, he told me he’s already found an FZR front wheel in reasonable condition, for either 1000 or 1800NT (not sure whether he said ‘yi4qian1, ba’ or ‘yi4qian1ba1’). I had phoned him to say I was having second thoughts, so he said it didn’t matter and if I didn’t want it that was fine. Nevertheless I don’t think he has much other use for an FZR front wheel so I probably should buy it, as I asked him to get it in the first place. I’ll go over there tomorrow morning for a chat.

The FZRs are newer bikes - I wonder whether the calipers on the wheel he found will be better than my existing one. How long do they last? How can we tell if they’re knackered?

Hexuan mentioned replacing the reservoir - excuse my ignorance but what could go wrong with a reservoir? Is it the valve or something?

The CB400 I rented in Thailand had a flat spot from 6000 to 7000rpm. Did the VTEC overcome this?

I still like the look of the Honda Bros 400cc v-twin (photo on my site shortly).

[quote=“plasmatron”]…once I find my map and can figure out which roads i took ( i stumbled upon some ‘wonderful’ stretches) I will post more details…[/quote]Looking forward to that. I often take that approach - go somewhere and find out where I went later. It sometimes puzzles people though; this is a conversation I had by the side of the road somewhere beyond Taiping:
Taiwanese young person: ‘Where are you going?’
Me: ‘I don’t know.’
By now concerned Taiwanese young person: ‘Where have you just come from?’
Me: ‘Hmmmm…I don’t know that, either.’

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I’ve just got back from Eric’s. He told me that he has another bike he can use that FZR front wheel on, so it really doesn’t matter and it’s up to me.

We found out that replacing the front wheel means also replacing the forks, which would make the front end lower unless Eric did some time-consuming (welding?) work on the forks. All in, using the FZR front wheel, replacing forks, getting new shocks, putting on renovated calipers, new pads and replacing the reservoir would cost at least 10,000NT. Add a new front tyre and it’s 13,000.

Keeping the old wheel and forks, replacing shock seals and springs, putting on renovated calipers, new pads, a bigger disc and getting a new reservoir could cost around 4,000NT; plus the tyre makes that 7,000. Completely new shocks would bump the price up a bit - is that worth it or would renovating the old ones be OK?

I want to think about it for a couple of days - any further thoughts, anyone? I’m tending - and so’s Eric - towards the latter, cheaper option of keeping the existing front wheel.