I have an office in Bangkok and one in Taipei so I frequently travel between the two. I love the kindness of the people and the level of service in Thailand compared to Taiwan. Staying at a hotel in Thailand just feels like a vacation even if you’re working whereas Taiwan is almost always an overpriced disappointment. And yes the food is great in Thailand.
However…
Thai people’s English is generally terrible and I’ve struggled to find competent talent there. I recently had a position planned for Thailand that I had to move to Taipei because of a lack of talent and English that was just not passable outside of written emails from the candidates I could find.
I could see the societal problems really grating on me if I lived there long term. The traffic and pollution are terrible in Bangkok. Everything is a bit grungier and rougher around the edges. Getting into an argument, altercation, or legal trouble in Thailand would be much more intimidating. Corruption is more in the open than Taiwan. Overall it seems much harder to integrate there. The language is very difficult and Thai overall just don’t seem as likely to accept a foreigner into their circle as Taiwanese are.
From my own biased experience of 20 years, Taiwan is for living and Thailand is for vacation. I am fully integrated into life in Taiwan. I have no issue with language. My friends, coworkers, associates are all Taiwanese. I prefer the local and “down-to-earth” Taiwanese. The only internationalized Taiwanese that I socialize with are parents of my kid’s classmates from an international school. They tend to be my least favorite to hang out with since they are more materialistic and disconnected from normal society. As for foreigners, the only chance I get to socialize in English is when I have to entertain people from abroad which is nice sometimes.
Taiwanese do know how to get down as well. If you are not a fan of karaoke then you’ll be missing a huge part of the culture. And will have to relegate yourself to foreigner bars.
Sometimes I’m not sure if I’m the one whose changed, or the more I know about Taiwan the less different it feels from my own culture. Once you fully integrate, you realize that people are pretty much the same everywhere. We have the same concerns of getting our kids into a good school, saving for retirement, taking care of parents as they age.
I do know how it feels though to be stuck in the foreigner circles and resenting the influence of English. I felt that the first few years. But eventually you reach a critical mass where your friends, classmates, coworkers are all locals, you get the jokes, the cultural references. And then you realize you have more in common with them now then people from your own culture.
That’s not been a great experience for me i.e. woking with only Taiwanese was a real turnoff.
I had to deal with a lot of insecure people, resentment, liars , backstabbers , shitty bosses , bosses fighting each other , shareholders suing each other, companies suing each other, shareholders suing employees including myself getting sued for just working there , bonuses and promises not kept.
The employees were pretty beaten down, underpaid and slavishly staying late was the norm as well coming in on Saturday mornings sometimes .
Also some (many) Taiwanese are status obsessed that’s quite a turnoff.
I would field many personal and ignorant questions from colleagues and bosses and some offensive questions , but they were very guarded when sharing their personal life with me.
Yes there were some genuine nice colleagues and a FEW good managers (well maybe one) along the way I’m not denying that.
Although I did have some fun the first few years drinking after work, going to rechao, KTV and jiu dian but the above made it not worth it. Then in multinational ones the culture wasn’t hugely better but at least I got paid on time and got my bonuses . I joined one place and the Taiwanese management in the multinational seems to have told the key staff to ignore me or not talk to me because they were afraid of my presence for some reason. I think you are either great at socialising and language acquisition , fortunate in your industry or workplace or a bit of both. Or maybe you are the boss and/or handsome too that always helps anywhere and especially in looks obsessed Taiwan .
Kaohsiung levels of pollution? I actually find Kaohsiung worse. As for Bangkok traffic, yeah there are certain areas where you don’t want to be in a car at rush hour. But, I tended to take the trains a lot or just not move at busy times
Maybe a bit, but also more character
If you know a few things and a few people, really it’s not a big deal. But I guess if you ave a big problem with someone much more connected and wealthy you are SOL. Here it seems kind of a crap shoot…
Which in my experience made paying traffic fines much easier
That wasn’t my experience
It’s not hard to pick up the necessities
I have had the complete opposite experience, but I didn’t live in Bangkok the whole 5 years I was there…
Yeah, this for me is a bit of a driving factor to my likely exit in the coming year or two…
I can understand feeling Thai people are more chill. But I can’t find Bangkok more chill than Taipei, it’s a big effort to get from point a to b to do something already.
I’m going to Thailand for a convention and besides the 2 days in Bangkok for the actual convention, I plan to be koh Sami for the rest of the time.
Yes. Except for traffic, food, services, national defense, and economic diversity. But generally, very safe here and can get most of what we want. Cost of living is good, the healthcare system is great.
Definitely. I make more money in Taiwan than I could in Thailand for the same effort. I don’t see many paths to more money ot less effort here, though. But generally the evonony here is better
I do find the traffic in Bangkok pretty insane still. I’m worn out after a few days business trip usually. Getting a grab when it rains is a soul sucking experience. Not Jakarta or India level but tiring .
There’s a huge difference in the experience of living in different parts of Thailand, couple of people noted it already.
The first place I lived only had motorcycle taxis. They seemed drunk or high more often than they had a spare helmet for passengers. That’s how I ended up getting my first scooter!
English there less than BKK, but I quickly made lifelong close friends with a large group of locals…
Working with Taiwanese certainly has its challenges but you have to sniff out who’s the real boss of the people and get him or her on your side and then you find you fit right in
It’s like swimming in undertow sometimes
You gotta sniff and sus out everyone and where they fit in the structure of the company
I find Taiwanese companies have a very strict hierarchy and you have to know your place
I worked in Taiwan for many companies in different positions
With a lot of employees and with companies with very few
If you are not the boss you have to make yourself liked because if you are not it’s going to be tougher
If it’s a place with many employees they likely have a person who the group most respects and this is usually one of the managers
Get
Him or her on your side and things will work for you
It’s a godfather society , the company structure in big companies in Taiwan
Not all but I think many
It really may not be all that different from working in other countries
I worked for many companies here in the Bay Area many with large numbers of people and although there was no godfather in the group unlike in Taiwan
A lot of the challenges are the same
You gotta sniff out everyone and see how they all fit in the puzzle
You have to keep your nose clean and learn how to work with people an get them to like and accept you
If they don’t you probably will have a short tenure there
Well, I guess let’s check back about Bangkok and Thailand in a year or so. The migration options lack behind and Thai society only seems more open at first contact. Thai is also quite challenging to learn.
Taiwan has less corruption, more rule of law and better overall organisation. Also, Taiwan’s Gold Card and APRC programs are better than what Thailand has to offer.
But as you said, housing is just on a different level. In Bangkok, you get a beautiful, modern studio apartment for 30-35 USD per night in a high rise building that features a rooftop pool and gym. You can’t get anything like that in Taiwan.
Social dancing… big topic. In Thailand, it is much more playful. In Taiwan it is dominated by this tendency of seeking perfection.
What I don’t get is the advice to look outside of Taipei. As you mentioned, you connected best with Taiwanese that lived abroad. And these are abundant in Taipei but less so in other cities.
Ok but working in the US which has a bazillion immigrants (and they are often the boss /manager(, has plenty of well paid jobs, mostly large companies and also working in the English language is completely different than working in Taiwan.
And these are abundant in Taipei but less so in other cities
Not really abundant, but maybe slightly more than before with people who worked in Australia or China (which kinda doesn’t count).
I know this is a totally surface level analysis that literally everyone who has considered living in both cities has thought about, but man, Bangkok’s heat is just brutal. I know most don’t consider Taipei’s weather to be anything special, but at least we still get roughly half the year where talking long walks outside in the city/hikes in nature is pleasant enough, or at least not instantly leading to incredible sweating. And more than half the year if you include the cool-ish evenings. Even the “winter” evenings in Bangkok are too hot for me
I haven’t lived in Taipei. Down here in Kaohsiung I think the heat is comparable to Bangkok, but cooler winters which I like.
However, in addition to the bad rental options up there, the weather for me is a big turn off. Seems like it is raining a lot of the time. Taking a look at Wikipedia it seems Taipei gets half the sunshine of Bangkok
The visa I got in Thailand is their new “Destination Thailand Visa (DTV)”. It allows one to stay up to 6 months at a time and is good for 5 years. It is extremely easy to get, with the easiest method being signing up for a “cultural activity” like a cooking class that meets a couple hours each week. That’s it. Note that where you apply for the visa has a big impact. The Thailand embassy in Taiwan is… “try-hard”, for lack of a better word. Many people comment on having to go above-and-beyond to try to make their case for something that is ultimately a tourist visa with no path to residency. Since I work for myself, my case was a tiny bit unique, and I ended up having to get an interview in Taipei for my tourist visa about my business and how it operates. For a tourist visa. Egregious when compared with the fact that one can get a gold card and a PR in Taiwan without any of that bullshit. So if you apply, it may be beneficial to go to Vietnam to apply as some people seem to do.
The comments about visa issues in Thailand is pretty accurate though. I cannot open a bank account on the DTV, though it was possible like a year ago. I even met people who previously opened an account and then had it closed once the Thailand government changed its mind. And those who live in Thailand are well aware of one thing: the Thailand government loves to change its mind. It is the almost exact opposite of the relative stability and great efficiency of the Taiwanese government. I think if I was trying to settle-down permanently in Thailand I would go sort of crazy. I plan to stay here for a couple years at least, but am sort of non-invested in the sense I don’t even have my work here. I read online about people being married to a Thai person for over a decade on the marriage visa and still needing to fill out paperwork, complete with detailed photos and other things each year to prove to the government it isn’t a sham marriage.
The comment about Taiwan being better for settling-down I think is probably accurate. From having a simple path towards permanent residency to things being much more stable (putting aside the geopolitical situation) to economic opportunities being a bit better. However, if anything, that is maybe why I left for the time being. I could, and still can, see a path of making Taiwan work, especially after my aforementioned frustrations which I have more or less gotten over. But I wanted to try something else for a while before committing even more. If, for no other reason, than to give myself a means of comparison later on.
Another thing on that note: Thailand just passed a law or something where it changed taxation for foreign residences. I think technically all income is taxed now, whereas before it was only local income and foreign income that was remitted into Thailand. But then I get contradicting info on that. Previously Thailand was particularly attractive to people working remotely or having foreign-sourced income because it was not taxed at all. I’m happy to pay my taxes (and monthly health care costs) in Taiwan, but in Thailand I’m not a resident and can’t open a bank account but they want to tax me. I won’t go over their 180ish day cut-off this year so haven’t looked into it too much as of yet. I’m sure many people just ignore it, it being Thailand after all.
In either case, if there is anything I learned over the past couple years is that wherever you go, there you are. I don’t really think living in Bangkok or Taipei will make as much of a difference as changing ones mindset or one’s habits (exercising, etc). After many years on focusing too much on language skills and building a small business I’m looking forward to changing focus for a bit and getting into better shape and rebuilding a normal social life. I could do this in Taiwan, but I think in Bangkok it will be a bit easier as I can guard against falling into old ways and thinking patterns a bit better. There is something blissful about not knowing the local language, too.
, bonuses and promises not kept.
. I joined one place and the Taiwanese management in the multinational seems to have told the key staff to ignore me or not talk to me because they were afraid of my presence for some reason. I think you are either great at socialising and language acquisition , fortunate in your industry or workplace or a bit of both. Or maybe you are the boss and/or handsome too that always helps anywhere and especially in looks obsessed Taiwan 
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