Moving to Taiwan from China

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

Hello everyone. I am a native of New York City, have been teaching English for ten years now–two years in South Korea, six years in my hometown, and for two years now in a semi-provincial town of Mainland China–and am very seriously considering moving to Taiwan. Whether to do so or to remain here is a difficult decision to make and it has been enormously helpful to me, this past month, to read through some of the many discussions here on all topics related to life in Taiwan.

I would like first to apologize in advance if I am asking questions which have been asked already. To tell the truth I have been a little “bewildered in the maze of threads” (to paraphrase Alexander Pope) and although I am aware that I am not the first person to come here seeking general advice of the sort I am asking for, yet I hope that my specific situation justifies me in asking the question again.

The main advantage of teaching in China, for me, is that I can teach at university here, and indeed even teach English literature, which is my special interest and what I have been doing for two years. I do not have a Master’s degree so going to Taiwan would mean reverting to standard teaching of grammar, oral English etc. Also, while teaching at a university here in China does not pay very much money, it pays adequately for a decent lifestyle here and leaves me a great deal of free time for my own writing, studying, and leisure, which is important to me.

However, and although my life here, on the whole, has been, if not very happy, at least one of quiet contentment, I have been longing more and more to move to Taiwan. Since I have never been there this may be due to misperceptions on my part, yet for several strong reasons I think I might be happier there.

Firstly, I have been studying the Chinese language for two years now and enjoy it a great deal and take the study seriously, although to be honest I have not made quite the progress I ought to have had I been more diligent. Now I hate loathe despise detest and am actually nauseated by the simplified characters which are used here on the mainland. It has become almost a mania with me, and from this it will not be hard to see why I might conceive that Taiwan would be a better place in which to continue my Chinese studies.

Secondly, China is not a very happy place in which to be a gay man, which I am. From everything I hear Taipei at least should be a huge improvement on any city here in that regard.

Thirdly, while this provincial city has all the advantages of provincial cities everywhere–relatively large apartments at low rent, and a calm and unhurried lifestyle, for example–this particular New Yorker very much misses theatres, restaurants, well-stocked bookstores and all the other advantages of urban culture. Reading threads on Forumosa has convinced me that Taipei should be far more to my liking than even Shanghai would in that regard, although if anyone who has lived both in Taipei and in either of the major Chinese cities would like to comment I would be very grateful for the advice.

I understand that in Taipei I will be able to go to church with an English langauge service, or with a Chinese language service which has not had to be revised by the censors of the communist party. And that brings me to my last reason for wanting to leave this country in favour of Taiwan. China is not a free country, a fact which one forgets about sometimes in the course of ordinary life, but which has a habit of making itself felt at critical moments. I spent the greater part of yesterday feeling that, after all, to remain here for another year would be a good thing. Then in the evening I went to a five-star hotel where foreign newspapers and magazines are available and, seeing that The Economist contained a review of a new biography of Chairman Mao, by the authoress of the Wild Swans, I bought the hotel’s only copy of the magazine. As I left the hotel I turned to page 83, which contained the book review, and found to my indignation that it had been torn out. And this is the third time in five months that an article relating to China had been torn out of all copies of The Economist to enter this country. Two months ago it was the page containing an article about China’s relations with Australia which had been torn out. How dangerous could that have been to the continuance in government of the present system? But anything is dangerous enough to the paranoid. And confronted with this tangible evidence, in my hand, of unfreedom, this magazine out of which pages had been torn by a political censor, I felt such a wave of revulsion that all the plans I had, earlier that day, formed for a continued residence in this country dissolved like phantoms, and I felt and still feel that if I could once go to Taiwan, news of whose elections, referendums, demonstrations, debates, protests, and all other such behaviour as freedom delights in have made their way even to these shores, then I should derive a real happiness simply from the fact of residing again, after so long a hiatus, in the midst of a liberty-loving people.

Having said all this–and I beg your collective forgiveness for the great length at which I find it necessary to express my situation–I suppose you may ask why I hesitate, and do not simply move to Taiwan as soon as the completion of my duties at the university at which I am currently employed–that will be in the middle of July, and my working visa, if I do not renew it, will expire in August–permits me to do so. There is, first, a natural conservatism of temper on my part which makes each successive uprooting of myself, each successive decision to start life new in a new place, more difficult than the last. Yet that would not in itself deter me long.

What deters me is the nature of the teaching work available in Taiwan, at least as it appears from the online job advertisements I have read so far. Most of them seem to be for teaching kindergarten, something for which I have little talent. Many of them prefer a “female” and ask for teachers under the age of thirty-five, criteria which make me wonder what the priorities and values are of the people for whom I might be working. And I am bewildered by the sheer number of references to “scooters”. In New York I took the subway to work and derived no pleasure from it; to have to negotiate the traffic of a busy city on a “scooter”, especially after two years during which my “commute” has involved a walk of five minutes across a tree-lined campus. But most of all it is the amount of work which I wonder about. Here I teach sixteen hours a week and have about twenty weeks of vacation a year. The jobs I have seen advertised in Taiwan mostly require forty hours of work a week and give one week vacation a year. I am aware that working long hours is the common lot of most of humanity and have no wish to seem spoiled; I myself worked eight hours a day in New York and commuted for two; but I have grown used here to a great deal of free time and have reservations about abandoning that.

Johnson said that Life places her blessings, some on the right hand, and some on the left, so that we cannot advance towards some without losing others. The blessings of life here are largely ones of convenience, and calm, and leisure. Those of Taiwan, if I understand correctly, would be a richer social and cultural life,–perhaps I should simply say, A cultural life, A social life etc., as here those things have approached barrenness.

Let me conclude by again begging pardon for the inordinate length of this post. It is my introduction of myself as a new member of this forum and a request for any information or advice which might make my decision easier, especially from people who have been both here and there but also from anyone who might furnish me with an account of what I can realistically expect in terms of life in and english teaching in Taiwan. I should add that my savings are limited and that I would depend upon finding work within a month at most of arriving in that country. In reciprocation I would be more than happy to furnish anyone who wishes it information about life in mainland China.

Best wishes and Thank You in advance to everyone who takes the time to read and respond to this.

2

The main reason to be in Taiwan is freedom. You will be free to be gay, read all of the Economist, criticize the government, advocate unifying with China (a pox on you if you do ;- ), and go to church in English or Chinese without inteference from the government. Hell, you can go to the park and do Falungong if you like.

It sounds like Taipei is the place for you. The traffic will take a little getting used to, but Taipei is compact and walkable (better yet bikable) with subways and a good bus system. It’s certainly not New York, but there is a lively arts scene, tons of nightlife, and a bazillion cafes.

If you live in Taipei, you should be able to cobble together enough odd jobs on top of a teaching job that gets you a visa IF you can resist the temptations of an expensive western lifestyle. If you live modestly and carefully, I think you will find you can get by working very little especially with your experience. I think you could get away with working 20 to 25 hours a week and probably make about NT$50,000 per month without too much trouble. If you share an apartment downtown, you will need about NT$10k per month, and if you are careful with money you could live off as little NT$300/day. Give yourself another NT$10k/month for fun and you might even be able to save NT$10k per month.

If you decide that you want your own apartment, take cabs, go to trendy clubs, and take lots of vacations, you may find that NT$100k per month is not enough.

There is more variety teaching in Taipei then elsewhere. With you experience, you should be able to find adult teaching gigs in Taipei. There is also a good bit of editing work to be picked up as well. Even if you have an MA, you will not be teaching English literature here.

A final note on the study of Chinese (excuse me while I get up on my hobby horse). Characters are the easy part. Don’t worry about them. Focus on the hard part–learning to speak accurately and gramatically.

3

Thank you very much, Feiren. Your reply confirms me in much of what I have already sensed. Having made myself unpopular in this country by publicly saying that the people of Taiwan should be able to decide for themselves whether they wish to unify with China or not, I am not about to make myself unpopular in Taiwan by advocating there the policies I resist here!

 You actually express my conundrum quite succinctly.  You say, in effect, Taipei has lots of wonderful things to do, but as a teacher I will not be able to afford many of them.  Here there are not many exciting things to do, but what there is I can afford quite well.  I have my own large apartment here, take taxis regularly, go to whatever clubs and restaurants there are, and, within China, can afford to take many and long vacations.  In Taiwan I will have to get used to living like an ordinary mortal again, but in return will be in a free country and one with an interesting cultural life.   The choice should be obvious, but, such is the frailty of life, that I find myself paralyzed by indecision.

 The financial details you give are actually very helpful to me.  As for the study of Chinese, I agree entirely.  I have had little trouble learning to read and write, and in two years have managed to learn a little under 1500 characters (I write traditional and can read simplified).  It is speaking and listening which is making my life hard.  And I cannot master the tones to save my life.
4

Last year I lived in Mainland China and worked at a university in Sichuan province. You articulated the experience very well. I had an excellent standard of living over all. Especially considering the work load of 16 classes, which were given to extremely keen, friendly, and hardworking students. I was quite happy there, but I too felt a bit of disdain for the cultural void created by an over self protective governing system. Especially as far as music was concerned, as I was a music major in university.

The move to Taipei has been, as you have guessed, a mixed bag. On the positive tip there are endless amounts of interesting cafes, an amazing night life, and the unsuppressed diversity of the people means making friends with common interests has been very easy. From world class Western classical performances to techno clubs, skateboard parks, and all the way back to ancient Chinese theater & arts; Taipei is an amazing city and I could spend my life here without any regrets.

The work situation is where the heavier burden of compromise seems to lay. The pay is fantastic and offers a standard of living far higher than in China. The consumer system is also far more mature and developed here. Since I have been here I have spent thousands of dollars on hi-tech gadgets and bought a bicycle I could only dream about owning at home. However, my work hour load has doubled to around 30hours a week and I am now working with young school aged children who, though wonderful, demand a lot more energy and require discipline and structure not necessary with university aged students.

After my first couple weeks here I was sure I wouldn’t last the term. The kids were running circles around me and I was rebelling against the schools excessive and redundant documenting policies which ate up hours of my time every week.

It’s been six months now, and slowly over that time, most of the major problems have dissipated or relaxed. The children have grown on me a lot. I look forward to seeing many of them, and I have a lot of fun being silly and playing. Also, I think my work sensed I was on the brink of walking, and they have made many concessions and backed off a lot on their paper work demands. We’ve had other staff leave over the time I’ve been with the company, so the hour demands have gone up. They will be even higher over the summer, in which I have a total of 5 days vacation! The school runs year round without break. Stats seem almost non-existent in Taiwan. In China it felt as if I had a week off every two months. I had almost 2 months for Chinese New Year, and I was paid for all of it. The senior staff seem to be able to skip out for a month or two at a time (without pay), but I’m far too low on the totem pole for this year.

Well, there’s my two cents and you can make of it what you will. If you want my opinion of the situation: Over all I’m quite happy here now. I’ve come to terms … … Slowly… . with the higher work load. And I’ve been payed off quite substantially in consumer goods as a result. My social life has also taken a great boost, and I’m definitely spending time with people who share common interests rather than spending time with people solely because we share a common “predicament” of cultural isolation.

All the best,

Gary=-,

5

Regarding chinese tones:

Funny you should mention this. I am flipping TV channels right now and on CTS there is a program going through “hong lu deng” or “ma lu” red ligh and road. But as this is Taiwan, they are using zhuyin ping yin. And for each word, they are going through each of the 4 major tones.

I find that zhuyin pingyin is more accurate than hanyu pingyin. Taiwan pronounciation is a bit more accurate than Sichuan. Where you live is going to determine your accent. Taiwanese people don’t do “shi” vs “si” very well. But the instructors are pretty accurate, but again it is not true Beijing standard.

Regards alternative livestyles:

It will be no problem in Taipei. Heck, I go to some local cell phone store, and the employee is rather openly gay. I would say that you would be able to find a gay lifestyle quite tolerable in Shanghai, China.

Freedom:

There is a stupid Bureaucracy here too, but that happens to be rather Chinese. But freedom of speech, freedom of press, no censorship. Yup all that and a bag of chips.

Lifestyle:

You will have to work harder to maintain the same standard of living. More hours less free time. However, the quality of life is higher (pollution is worse in Taipei, but then again I don’t know if you were in Chongqing or Chendu, etc.). The quality of produce is hgher. More nightclubs, the museum pieces are better, more classical music, etc.

6

Gary and Chichow, Thanks a lot. It’s especially good to hear from someone who has done the very thing I am contemplating doing. You all confirm the impressions I had already formed, but I am glad to hear someone say that Taipei is a great city. To be honest, there was a time when the amount of unpleasant things people had to say about Taipei and Taiwan in general, not here at Forumosa, but on certain other “English-teaching” oriented online discussion groups, frightened me. But then I remembered my own foreign students in New York: a lot of them loved the city, and some of them hated it. It seems to me that the more articulate and interesting people online are the ones who like Taipei.

I must say, Gary, that the “five days vacation” you mention is what I find most daunting. I’m willing to work hard, and work longer hours, for a good school which pays adequately, but I do like to have free time as well. Here I have about four months holiday a year, as you said. On the other hand, if I’m having a good time in Taipei, possibly I will not want as many vacations.

In the end I have no doubt that culturally and socially my life in Taipei would be far richer than here. The question is whether, as a writer, I would not be more productive in some quiet part of China where I could work little and devote much of my time to writing. I am one of the laziest people alive and I fear that in Taipei, between the far greater demands of the work on the one hand, and the temptations of the city on the other, I will never do any writing. On the other hand, it might at least give me something to write about.

Chichow–half the people in China cannot distinguish between ‘s’ and ‘sh’! And there’s a motley assortment of other consonants which are often confused; where I live, which is the northeast of the country, not Sichuan, it is common to hear ‘c’ pronounced as ‘ch’.

7

Public school jobs require* an education degree/certificate. University jobs require* an MA. Public school jobs have maybe two months of vacation (if you don’t get roped into some kind of summer program because you have a white face) and unis four or five. You will absolutley not be teaching English Lit here unless you’re a blueblooded academic from back home (which you’re not) – the Taiwan / US exchange is huge and there’s a ready supply of bilingual Taiwanese with MAs in English who will have those jobs. You can come up with some “english through novels” thing and try to sell it to your boss, but he’s more likely to say “just stick to the phonics and games.”

Once you leave those arenas you’re looking at one paid week (Chinese New Year) plus request-in-advance unpaid leave at 95% of the jobs out there. Also, while you can find adult work, it’ll seem like every job you see advertised is for either kindergardens (work there is technically illegal) or buxibans that cater primarily to first and second grade kids. If you’ve never taught kids that age expect a lead-up time where you’ll be doing about four or five times the prep work for each hour of teaching that you do now. After a month or two you’ll figure out how to save a little prep time for youself without turning your lessons into poo, but until then you won’t have that much free time if you’re at all serious about teaching the kids well.

I see tons of openly gay folks here – both male and female. Post and pre op trannies, too.

The reason people live here is so that when they go home they’ll have something in the bank to show for it. If you plan to turn yourself into a Chinaman you might do that better in China – but be aware that if you have kids some day (or the equivalent of kids for a guy guy – I don’t know what that would be) you might, at that point, not have the resources to get them back to the states to afford them advantages that a US upbringing certainly affords.

*require = you need that degree unless you have a really solid contact or some special inside information about the hiring proces and their pet peeves, which you likely don’t have when you’re living in another place.

8

Again, thank you all for the information. I think now I have a pretty clear idea of the advantages and disadvantages of Taiwan–as clear an idea as I can have without actually going–and all I need to do now is make a decision.

 What would help me a great deal now is any information about the cost of going from here to there--the flight to Hong Kong, the cost of the visa, and the flight to Taiwan from there.  Also, how much luggage am I allowed to bring?  When I flew from New York to China I was allowed a surprisingly large amount of luggage, both check-in and carry-on, but I do not know if it will be the same here.  

 Thanks a lot for any information about these things.
9

i work 30 hours a week and pull in almost 80,000NT after tax. i don’t work 6 hours a day straight, either. 2 in the morning, 2 hours lunch, and then 4 in the afternoon. a regular work day… 930-630.

i think you’ll be able to find, without much trouble, a good schedule and good pay. if you are paid hourly then you will not get paid for national holidays. if you get paid on a salary system, then you will.

in my 4 years here i’ve never had a problem working a month vacation in the summer into my contract. most schools, if you find a sub, don’t have too many qualms about you taking time off here and there. granted, it’s a month unpaid, but i don’t care.

being gay in taipei has been pretty good… the lesbian scene/bars/clubs have gotten a lot better. the gay bars are shit hot and a ton of fun with an equal mix of foriegn and local patrons.

taipei is a really easy city to live in aside from the traffic, which one eventually become accustomed to. as mentioned before there is a fantastic subway system and an equally excellent bus system. i prefer driving a scooter myself… allows for a bit more freedom and easy access to out-of-town day trips.

give it a shot… it’s just as easy to leave as it is to come and taipei isn’t so expensive that you’ll be broke by the time you figure out if you like it here or not.

10

EXACTLY! Traditional characters RULE!
That’s exactly why Taiwan kicks China’s ass. We write beautiful and meaningful traditional characters while China is still using that crap created by the commies to bastardize the language. Simplified characters are an insult to the Chinese language and culture.