Muslims, Han Chinese clash in north China

Politics International Politics
1

A trend…or of no consequence?
Mrs. Cowboy’s family is from the Shandong area. She tells me their traits are being large and liking a scuffle. From what I have found…quite accurate.
Shandong first…Han when its in their best interests.

[quote]Muslims, Han Chinese clash in north China - group

BEIJING, Sept 4 (Reuters) - Thousands of Han Chinese and members of the Muslim Hui ethnic minority group clashed over a dispute in north China, resulting in one death, a Hong Kong human rights group said on Tuesday.

Relations between the Han, who make up more than 90 percent of China’s 1.3 billion population, and the 10-million-strong Hui Muslims have long been sensitive.

Huis complain about offences to their religion and customs and marginalisation, while Han Chinese resent the preferential policies Hui and other ethnic minorities, such as Muslim Uighurs, Tibetans and Mongols, receive.

The Aug. 17 clash started when a young Hui man was caught stealing and beaten up by Han Chinese in Shimiao township in Huimin county in the coastal province of Shandong, the Information Centre for Human Rights and Democracy said.

Angry Hui Muslims stormed the commercial street in Shimiao, looting shops, smashing property and fighting Han Chinese, the group said in a faxed statement. Four police vehicles were damaged.

“At least one Muslim was killed and more than 20 Hui and Han people injured,” it said, adding hundreds of armed police were still guarding the area.

A propaganda official with the Huimin county government said “there was such an incident” when reached by telephone.

“It has been resolved,” the official told Reuters. He would not confirm the death and other details and declined to give his name.

In December 2000, three Hui men were arrested for demonstrating against a Han Chinese shop that claimed to sell “halal pork” in Shandong’s Yangxin county, near Huimin, a huge insult to Muslims who are forbidden from eating pork.

The arrests drew hundreds of fellow Hui Muslims from the neighbouring Hebei province and police opened fire and shot dead six of them when attempts to block them from entering Yangxin sparked a clash.
alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/PEK269600.htm[/quote]
A nice inter-active map on the upper right of the page.

2

It’s my understanding that any alleged violence by China’s muslim minorities against the Han majority is not a trend, but the opposite of a trend. The trend has been for the majority, non-muslims to suppress, harass, discriminate against and kill the minorities, including muslims, and the PRC government (the Russian govt too) is thrilled with how muslims have been portrayed worldwide as terrorists, so they can brutally crack down on muslim for no legitimate reason and claim they were suppressing terrorists.

3

Ever heard of Tibet and how the commies overran the region, burning down temples, forcing their religious leader to flee the region, beating, killing and imprisoning buddhists and forcing the people to suppress their religious beliefs and practices? Ever heard of how they’ve been doing the same to all other minorities and followers of religion, including Christians. I guess not. I guess FOX news doesn’t report such things.

4

Strange, someone deleted all the worthwhile posts in this thread. Oh well, no matter.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]MT -
Sounds like an excellent opportunity for a caring, compassionate attorney who is deeply moved by un-litigated incidents of minority suppression.
Let me be the first to suggest that you immediately live out your feelings by flying off to represent these oppressed citizens living under the cruel tyrannical yoke of the PRC communist boulder. . .[/quote]

TC, I apologize. For some reason I thought you were being sarcastic. I didn’t realize you were being sincere in your concern for Chinese citizens persecuted by their government for their religious beliefs. But I just came across a post in which you previously expressed such concerns. So I now realize you do care about muslims who are unfairly persecuted. You weren’t expressing ignorant, hateful, anti-muslim sentiments; you were actually commiserating with them. Please accept my apologies. You are a better man than I realized. :notworthy:

Here’s an excerpt from the article you linked in your prior post:

[quote]China maintains tight control over religious affairs and requires all faith communities, whether Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim or Christian, to register and carry out their activities according to strict and often changed guidelines.

. . . a spokesman for Amnesty International in Hong Kong, said: "This latest incident proves that despite the odd overture towards more freedom of expression and the building of a harmonious society, China’s leader’s will use force to crack down on un-sanctioned religion.

"Those arrested. . . who largely go unreported, are forbidden to worship the religion of their choice.

“They will receive summary justice by the police and be sentenced to re-education through forced labour or sentenced to prison.”[/quote]

You are correct, TC: Chinese people of all faiths should be permitted to freely and openly express their beliefs and conduct their chosen worship without being persecuted by the Han majority.

5

MT -
Maoman says my responses to your baiting are mean.
So you just have a nice day… :smiley:

6

Perhaps PRC should take one from US playbooks and open up a Gitmo detention center in Taiwan somewhere.

7

Why would they need to, when they have so many examples from Chinese history already? Surely you are familiar with the Hui uprisings during the Qing dynasty?

8

Surely you can’t be blaming the Qing dynasty on the Hans?
Even the Hans overthrew the Qing dynasty to establish the ROC.

Nobody was happy with the Qing, besides the Manchu and the Japanese.

Those foreigners had no clue on how to run China. They were as bad as those barbarians in the Yuan dynasty.

Any idiot that comes up with a queue as fashion, really needs to step down and get a good beating from the fashion police.

9

Surely you can’t be blaming the Qing dynasty on the Hans?
Even the Hans overthrew the Qing dynasty to establish the ROC.

Nobody was happy with the Qing, besides the Manchu and the Japanese.

Those foreigners had no clue on how to run China. They were as bad as those barbarians in the Yuan dynasty.

Any idiot that comes up with a queue as fashion, really needs to step down and get a good beating from the fashion police.[/quote]

Badly timed, fella, see the other thread on someone copping a bad beating in Taichung.

I understand there is no link in your spiel, by the way,.

HG

10

Surely you can’t be blaming the Qing dynasty on the Hans?
Even the Hans overthrew the Qing dynasty to establish the ROC.

Nobody was happy with the Qing, besides the Manchu and the Japanese.

Those foreigners had no clue on how to run China. They were as bad as those barbarians in the Yuan dynasty.
[/quote]
Right.
Only the Chinese know how to “run” the middle kinsdome, right?
Give over, the whole historical record proves otherwise. Any supposed historical model of CHinese nationalism is rife with foerign means, and ends.

Any idiot that spouts the same perverse spew, always ending up at a 90 degree angle to the actual intent of the thread in question deserves all the noxious odius overtones they can gather.
\\
cool map, from TC’s original link
alertnet.org/map/index.htm?c … de=41690_5

11

Surely you can’t be blaming the Qing dynasty on the Hans?[/quote]

Whose blaming anybody? I’m just saying that China already has a model in place for dealing with the Hui. No need to look to the US.

12

Taichung is now and always been a part of British India and anyone who says otherwise no I wont bloody well move on I was here first what night bus to Islington what sort of person lives in bloody Islington and waits for the night bus in Trafalg… oh charming I ask you why do we botheugferhSD

13

Ha, funny you should say that. As it turns out, PRC doesn’t need to create a Gitmo of their own. Turns out the US invited them to Gitmo to torture confessions out of Uighurs with US assistance. That’s globalization for you.

[quote]U.S. military personnel at Guantanamo Bay allegedly softened up detainees at the request of Chinese intelligence officials who had come to the island facility to interrogate the men – or they allowed the Chinese to dole out the treatment themselves, according to claims in a new government report.

Buried in a Department of Justice report released Tuesday are new allegations about a 2002 arrangement between the United States and China, which allowed Chinese intelligence to visit Guantanamo and interrogate Chinese Uighurs held there.

. . . an FBI agent reported a detainee belonging to China’s ethnic Uighur minority and a Uighur translator told him Uighur detainees were kept awake for long periods, deprived of food and forced to endure cold for hours on end, just prior to questioning by Chinese interrogators.

Susan Manning, a lawyer who represents several Uighurs still held at Guantanamo, said Tuesday the allegations are all too familiar.

U.S. personnel “are engaging in abusive tactics on behalf of the Chinese,” she said Tuesday. When Uighur detainees refused to talk to Chinese interrogators in 2002, U.S. military personnel put them in solitary confinement as punishment, she said.[/quote]
abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4894921&page=1

14

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote]Surely you are familiar with the Hui uprisings during the Qing dynasty?[/quote]They were as bad as those barbarians in the Yuan dynasty.
[/quote]

International trade, freedom of religion, tax reform, cultural diversity, west-east contact/exchanges. Kublai Khan also improved the agriculture of China, extending the Grand Canal, highways and public granaries (public infrastructure), building hospitals and orphanages. OK, so there was a glass ceiling for top posts for Han, but c’mon, these guys were trying to kill Mongols. gosh, they even reinstated the stupid Confucian exams.

Yea, real bad barbarians… :unamused:

15

Ohh those pesky details…from the same article:
[i]“An official authorized to speak on behalf of the Defense Department but who declined to be named confirmed it was Pentagon policy to allow officials from other countries to have access to interview their nationals at Guantanamo but declined to discuss the specifics alleged in the report.”

“The U.S. State Department has found China to have suppressed the religious freedom of Uighurs, who are Muslim, and has accused the Chinese government of persecuting, even executing, those who advocate Uighur independence.
In 2006, after the United States released five Uighurs from Guantanamo, China asked for them to be repatriated so they could be prosecuted as terrorists. The United States declined to do so, out of concern they would not be treated humanely. Instead they transferred the men to Albania, which was the only country out of 90 approached by the U.S. government who would take them.
The Pentagon says it is trying to release and resettle the majority of the 17 Uighurs who remain in Guantanamo, although it says it still considers them enemy combatants and a threat.”[/i]

Anyone who actually reads the article will see that there was no "invitation to torture confessions from prisoners. This is merely an [i]allegation[/i] being put forth by a ‘lawyer’ who has latched onto a theory. We all know how loose a hungry lawyer can be with the ‘facts’ and ‘truth’ when they smell fame or a governmental lawsuit. Can anyone say ‘Deep Pockets’…sure ya can.

As always, one is cautioned to actually posts in their entirety. And looking for supplemental sources is also a good idea. As is apparent, none were provided to bolster this …allegation.

16

Ohh those pesky details…from the same article:
[i]“An official authorized to speak on behalf of the Defense Department but who declined to be named confirmed it was Pentagon policy to allow officials from other countries to have access to interview their nationals at Guantanamo but declined to discuss the specifics alleged in the report.”

“The U.S. State Department has found China to have suppressed the religious freedom of Uighurs, who are Muslim, and has accused the Chinese government of persecuting, even executing, those who advocate Uighur independence.
In 2006, after the United States released five Uighurs from Guantanamo, China asked for them to be repatriated so they could be prosecuted as terrorists. The United States declined to do so, out of concern they would not be treated humanely. Instead they transferred the men to Albania, which was the only country out of 90 approached by the U.S. government who would take them.
The Pentagon says it is trying to release and resettle the majority of the 17 Uighurs who remain in Guantanamo, although it says it still considers them enemy combatants and a threat.”[/i]

Anyone who actually reads the article will see that there was no "invitation to torture confessions from prisoners. This is merely an [i]allegation[/i] being put forth by a ‘lawyer’ who has latched onto a theory. We all know how loose a hungry lawyer can be with the ‘facts’ and ‘truth’ when they smell fame or a governmental lawsuit. Can anyone say ‘Deep Pockets’…sure ya can.

As always, one is cautioned to actually posts in their entirety. And looking for supplemental sources is also a good idea. As is apparent, none were provided to bolster this …allegation.[/quote]

Telegram!

You’s just got slapped.

17

More likely they’ll take a page from the canadian playbooks and just send them back to their home countries where they are likely to face torture worse than in gitmo. It’s cheaper.

18

More likely they’ll take a page from the Canadian playbooks and just send them back to their home countries where they are likely to face torture worse than in gitmo. It’s cheaper.[/quote]

Yes, it’s cheaper, since sending Hui Chinese located in China back to China will cost absolutely nothing. :slight_smile:

19

[quote=“Jack Burton”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]Ohh those pesky details…from the same article:
“An official authorized to speak on behalf of the Defense Department but who declined to be named confirmed it was Pentagon policy to allow officials from other countries to have access to interview their nationals at Guantanamo but declined to discuss the specifics alleged in the report.”

Anyone who actually reads the article will see that there was no "invitation to torture confessions from prisoners. This is merely an [i]allegation[/i] being put forth by a ‘lawyer’ who has latched onto a theory. . . . [/quote]

Telegram!

You’s just got slapped.[/quote]

Really? I didn’t feel a thing.

You’re telling me if TC and an anonymous official from the Defense Department who declined to be named and declined to discuss the specifics say the allegations in a Justice Department report are incorrect, then the allegations couldn’t possibly be true? After all, the Defense Dept, and TC, would never disseminate faulty information, would they, whereas the Justice Dept clearly would? Ooookay. . . I don’t quite get the hierarchy of whose allegations are indisputible and whose are clearly lies, but I’ll try to believe you.

Incidentally, here’s from the CS Monitor.

[quote]the report reveals that the United States allowed Chinese officials to interrogate Chinese Uighur inmates at Guantánamo. Uighurs are an ethnic minority in China who are primarily Muslim.

As one FBI agent recounts, “one Uighur detainee, Bahtiyar Mahnut … claimed that the night before his interrogation by Chinese officials he was awakened at 15-minute intervals the entire night and into the next day. . .”[/quote]
csmonitor.com/2008/0523/p03s01-usmi.html

20

Alright… you caught me instigating.

doh!