Yes, I understand that. Nobody wants to be told they are wrong. And nobody certainly wants to be told they are going to hell. And worse, nobody wants to be told they are going to hell because they are wrong about a belief.
However, I have two responses to this:
First, we are people living in a society where interacting with each other, sharing ideas, and even disagreeing on things is part of the communal contract. People can come to your house and try and sell you something, they can come and express political views, they can come and ask you marketing questions. People are free to respond rudely to any sort of intrusion, but I believe that reflects poorly on whomever is being rude first. Courtesy and manners make society a better place, even when faced with an unwanted opinion or visit.
The second thing is that you have to weigh the discomfort others feel about being presented with a belief that says it is the right one (and hence yours is wrong) against their going to hell. While you may not believe what they say is true, they do, and so should understand it in that light.
Still, not all missionaries do it politely, and they should definitely always be polite.
Ack. That’s too early, and in such a case I think you’ve a right to be snippy if that’s your natural response. But if you were still courteous, then more power to you!
My goodness, how is it that this thread has already run to five pages without anybody posting this classic bit by Emo Philips? It’s a crime!
[quote]I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!”
“Why shouldn’t I?” he said.
I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!”
He said, “Like what?”
I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?”
He said, “Religious.”
I said, “Me too!
Are you Christian or Buddhist?”
He said, “Christian.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
He said, “Protestant.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?”
He said, “Baptist!”
I said,“Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?”
He said, “Baptist Church of God!”
I said, “Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?”
He said,“Reformed Baptist Church of God!”
I said, “Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?”
He said, “Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!”
I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.
[/quote]
Bollocks. They can ask can they come to my house. Of course the 7/11 trucks are allowed as they have to give me products and send out my products to customers. We have an arrangement you see. Contractual an all.
You can’t get to my house without first trespassing on my private property. You have to walk 40m up my driveway past a gate to get to my house. You don’t have the right just because you want to put your point of view across.
Of course by then you will have walked past signs and my dog will be barking.
[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”] The second thing is that [color=blue]you have to weigh the discomfort others feel [/color]about being presented with a belief that says it is the right one (and hence yours is wrong) against their going to hell. While you may not believe what they say is true, they do, and so should understand it in that light.
Still, not all missionaries do it politely, and they should definitely always be polite.[/quote]
Why should I have to weigh the discomfort others are about to place on me. It is they who should understand the discomfort they cause others.
Of course as long as you dont talk politics or religion in my home you are all quite welcome for a cup of tea, scones, and jam.
No they can’t. I pay a security professional every month to keep people from bothering me at my house. It is worth every penny.[/quote]
That’s also part of society. Putting up signs and fences.
In reference in passing judgment on whether their actions are rude or not.
There are plenty of people interested in having a discussion on religion. Plenty that aren’t. You won’t know until you ask. Is the act of asking itself rude? Well, if it’s at 7am, yes, cause the same thing could be done at a respectable hour. But otherwise, asking of a person is willing to hear a message is not out of the bounds of decency in society.
[quote] But otherwise, asking of a person is willing to hear a message is not out of the bounds of decency in society. [/quote] Except in Greece, where you might find yourself locked up for proselytizing . I mentioned before, it doesn’t bother me, but I think it is wrong to assume that this should be ok for everyone, to do so would be to impose your values on everyone else.
Also, I agree, the time and the place and the manner in which people are approached is important, and I understand you are not suggesting this should occur at unreasonable times or in a way which could be seen to be aggressive or pushy. However, while some religions are more aggressive (Jehovah’s Witnesses as my memory serves were always particularly insistent, my neighbors on more than one occasion called up so I could excuse myself from their presence, I couldn’t bring myself to slam the door on them and, it really didn’t matter what you said , they would never go away), human nature being what it is, different peoples personalities withing the same religion will approach this differently as well. Perhaps not all being as delicate as you.
In fact, I have too many funny stories of people proselytizing, over the years and since it happens so often back in London, its not that surprising ( and yes, 99% of the time those who approach me are very respectful). I once had a guy follow me round a supermarket playing peek a boo, I could see he was hoping to catch my eye, and I was doing my best to avoid his, so he would appear in the frozen foods section (I had realized what he was going to talk to me about as he had the bible in his hand), then putting cornflakes in my trolley I could see him bobbing and weaving in the other isle, still trying to get my attention. Finally at the check out, hes peeking over one shoulder then the other, I think at this point both myself and the cashier are doing the best we can not to start laughing. Finally, not able to contain himself anymore , stands arms stretched in the air and proclaims “Jesus loves you, praise the lord !”. I’m quite sure not a Mormon though, strangely enough I don’t have much of a memory of Mormons in London. Maybe we’re a lost cause being pagans and all.
RDO, I bet you’re the kind of guy who doesn’t mind finding his mailbox full of junk mail, right? You’re in a TINY minority on THAT score, too. These daft doorsteppers are absolutely no better than junk mailers. Lots of people – millions, probably – would no doubt be happy to hear of the painful demise of a goddamn email spammer (not me of course – I love everybody), and I would not be surprised in the least to find out that these bloody religion-spammers are detested just as much.
When the Jehovah’s Witnesses knock one day, and the Mormons knock the next, and the insurance salesman knocks the next, and the phone rings twice a day with similar spam, and my bloody inbox is full of unsolicited crap, and my mailbox downstairs is too, then YES IT IS OUT OF THE BOUNDS OF BLOODY DECENCY. :fume: Spam is not welcome, period. Least of all spam from people who think that their beliefs and values are better than mine and they’re bent on changing mine.
[quote]People can come to your house and try and sell you something, they can come and express political views, they can come and ask you marketing questions.[/quote]No they can’t, that’s why there are no-call lists and such like.
Imagine you’re at home, in YOUR HOME, your place of solitude, your personal retreat, relaxing, or enjoying whatever you like to do in your personal space, and someone calls at your door, disturbing whatever you were doing. You can’t not answer it, it might be important. You have to get up, you have to make sure you are decently dressed. Maybe you’re an insomniac and you finally get some sleep after several days. And you find out it’s a couple of kids wanting to push their religion on to you. Wouldn’t you be furious?
Besides, who believes in a religion just because someone tells you to? Isn’t a personal choice?
Anyway,
I had a couple of Mormons over for lunch. Nice chaps. They didn’t mention their religion, didn’t even invite me to their church. They were really appreciative of the western-style food i cooked for them, and for the invite. One was from Phoenix, the other was a farm boy from the back of beyond in Southern Utah (one hour’s drive from a city of 25,000). The farm boy arrived just two weeks ago so he looked a bit overwhelmed, the other chap was playing the part of the veteran with 11 months under his belt.
The no-call list is how society deals with it. If you put a “no soliciting” sign on your door, then proselyters should leave you alone. If you aren’t on the no-call list then they can call you.
I don’t get furious over something like that. I get upset if they are rude or if they call at an irregular hour, in contravention of what would be considered proper in society. Or if they don’t go away after I ask them to leave. That’s normal.
Being pissy just because someone comes to you with a matter you don’t care for (even if it’s at your home) is rude and anti-social. If you were disturbed in the middle of something then being a little impatient or abrupt may be a natural reaction, but it’s not actually a sign of good character.
Only if you know to choose it. Proselyters are out to give you more choices.
[quote]If you put a “no soliciting” sign on your door, then proselyters should leave you alone.[/quote]Oh aye, come to think of it, that probably would work But what about in the street? Do I have to hang a sign around my neck? Nowadays, opt-out spam is considered bad.
But… in reality they haven’t really bothered me. Those people handing out leaflets at MRT stations bother me more, sticking things in my way, invading my personal space, getting in my way. Twice I’ve had people ask me if they can help me lose weight, I don’t know if they even knew how insulting that is. The first time I just gave him dirty looks, the second time I ripped a strip off him. Now they did make me furious.
What bothers me is those guys standing around asking you if you want a pretter girl or a special massage. Sometimes I have to walk around for hours before I find one.
But what about in the street? Do I have to hang a sign around my neck? Nowadays, opt-out spam is considered bad.