My rant about used scooters!

Lately, I’ve been seeing some foreigners down here riding these good awful death traps on 2 wheels and from that I would like to pass on my piece of mind to those interested. It’s all in the interest of safety!

I got a buddy down here in Taichung who has been here for 3 years now…his first scooter cost him 10,000$nt(approx 360$CAD)…he rode that thing in and out of town for 2 years…iot was an unsafe, unregistered, slow as hell, dangerous hunk of junk…it would always misfire, puff smoke and would often never start…he bitched and complained about it all the time…my only answer to this is “You get what you pay for”…most people in Canada pay much more than 350$ for a bicycle…finally, my buddy’s scooter broke for good when the frame snapped in 2 pieces…no matter what anyone says, 10k may seem like a bargain but when it comes to reliability and safety it’s far off the mark…Would you bargain on your safety?

No personal attacks here, just my personal feelings based on my experience…We often overlook the value of the things we buy here…Many have no problems buying a top of the line lap-top or PC for 70k…but can’t manage to spend more than 10k for a scooter??

It’s safe to assume that in Taiwan, when something such as a cheap scooter is labeled as being"used, it’s not referring to it being second hand…it means that it’s literally used…has been used…and it’s useful life has long expired…I’ve seldom seen Taiwanese people buy a “used” scooter…they buy them new and treat them like crap till they don’t run anymore, at which point they sell them to a mechanic for cheap and buy another new machine…the trashed scooter then gets a small “quick fix=quick buck” job and is sold to foreigners mostly.

Many expats discount buying a new scooter because they say they are only planning to stay here for a year or so…but i’ve known lots who’ve said this and managed to stay for 4 years+…

Here’s my advice

  -Spend the money for a new or relatively new scooter(new~3y/o in the 30k~60K range)

  -Think of safety over price. We are not invincible from injury because we are in another country.

  -Don't trust shops that have stacks of old parts lying around. Especially if they sell second hand scooters.

  -Make sure the scooter is well registered to your name and all info on the blue card corresponds to the scooter in question.

  _ If you plan to by second hand, give the scooter a thorough inspection before buying. Feel free to back out from a scooter that seems unsafe or inadequate.

 -Maintain your scooter in good condition with regular servicing.  If you treat it well, it will treat you well in return.

That’s it…I hope this helps anyone who’s looking to buy a scooter in the future.

Cheers

You don’t necessarily need to buy new to get a reliable scooter. My Dio was 10 years old when I bought it and I’ve ridden it for two years with hardly any problems. (Only notable one being when I left it outside during typhoon Mindulle and it wouldn’t start afterwards. A new carb sorted that out.)

A lot of people I know have bought decent second-hand scooters and got years of riding from them. Just make sure it’s in reasonable condition when you buy it, replace anything that needs replaced, then just keep doing the routine maintenance and it should be fine.

I agree with Skylark Puma that a lot of people DON’T bother to keep their bikes in good condition, or they buy a terrible one to start off with.

I’m 98% certain that you weren’t trying to insult anyone personally…but it seems a bit too coincidental that I wrote: forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=42116

And then later this: forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 25&start=0

And then a short while later you write

My “get what you pay for” scooter has a new (rebuilt) engine, new carb, tires, battery, an oversized new starter (I told him my biggest worry was it starting easily), and a few other things. I was so impressed with it I gave him an extra 2,000nt and told him to put some new front shocks on it and keep the change.

So for a grand total of 12,000nt. I have what is to a very large degree…a new scooter.

I’m guessing it was just coincidental that you seemed to use me as your example. But just incase it wasn’t, below I shall write my smart-ass response…don’t bother reading it if your intentions were pure.

Some of us try to save our money without sacrificing saftey. Not all of us can spend 480,000nt on a bike…another 80,000 on mods…then sell it a few months later for a loss of 160,000nt. I’m sure someone like that can buy a new scooter every time his old one gets a flat tire…but most of us aren’t that person.

I do agree that many foreigners (and some locals) are idiotic with neglecting their scooters. They trust that vehicle with their lives on a daily basis. And sooner or later they will have somewhere important to go and it won’t be able to take them.

Should be common sense to maintain your vehicle…too bad so many of us are idiots.

With regards to buying used scooters…a 30,000nt used scooter is not guaranteed to be better than a 10,000nt used scooter. If it’s used it could still have some weird recurring problem.

Personally, I like to find the cheapest piece of shit I can find. Then get someone I trust to rebuild it from scratch. Buying a whole bike in parts is still much cheaper than buying new.

Mordeth,

It was just a coincidence that you happen to have your post about your 12k scoot to boot. I failed to mention the whole point of my post…it was that my buddy ended up replacing his old “busted in half” scooter with a new scooter that he bought for the large sum of…8,000$nt!..this replacement scooter is up to 90cc from the previous 50cc…but down on having a registration, functional lights and working flashers…and he earns a hefty salary at that!..

As far as the mods went on the CBR…It’s a known fact that from the minute a mod is added, it’s to beconsidered a loss…not an item which adds value…so, I was fully aware of this when selling the bike…

Some people are lucky and find a diamond in the rough for 10K…but i stand on my point that safety should have no compromise when buying a scooter.

What happened to your Cygnus?.. Crashed? Stolen? Sold?

[quote=“skylarkpuma”]

What happened to your Cygnus?.. Crashed? Stolen? Sold?[/quote]

Stolen. My girlfriend confiscated it when she moved in. The new 12k scooter is to try to appease her so she’ll release mine. I’ve been taking either the car to work or my little pink 50cc…which is difficult to start so she can’t use it.

It’s all good man…I didn’t really think you were try to insult me out of the blue for no reason like that. But you gotta admit your quote seems to be taken straight from my posts…even if it wasn’t.

I have myself bought many used scooters, all in the $14000 to $18000 price range, all from the same shop. Not one of the scooters has died after 5 years.

The key is the shop. He rebuilds them himself, and does a good job. He knows to put good breaks on for me and not the cheapest tires.
Then I maintain them. Cheep oil very often.

Then drive the heck outa them.

I think Skylarkpuma was directing his point at people who don’t have a slew of mechanical knowledge but still go for the biggest/least expensive pile of crap that runs…And I agree with him.

Someone like Hsiadogah (you are missed) could look at a 15 year old scooter for 30 seconds and know straightaway whether or not it’s viable/repairable transportation. A newbie who hasn’t ridden a scooter before and doesn’t know the inner workings shouldn’t go after something that cheap.

Mordeth, stop being so darn sensitive…You had a shop refurbish a used machine, very different from what he was getting at.

I don’t own any transportation under 12 years old, but spend time with them, and keep them maintained (maybe overly so) to a point that if I want to go anywhere on the island, all I have to do is turn the key. Anything less would drive me crazy.

Without that sort of mentality you really should stay away from old clunkers, whether they be on two wheels or four.

It doesn’t have to be either an old clunker or brand new. There are quite a few good vehicles about of a medium age at a medium price.

My workmate knows nothing about motor vehicles but he got a very reasonable 125 for around 20,000NT and it hasn’t given him any trouble at all. I doubt that he gets enough of the regular maintenance done on it, but even if you have a new bike and you don’t maintain it it won’t run forever.

Still, if someone doesn’t know much about scooters but wants to buy a used one, I’d say that he/she should either buy it from a trusted source or get someone with a little knowhow to go along to check out scooters with him/her.

PS: how regularly should I be getting my scooter serviced anyway? I have a mechanic I trust and a 10 year old 125cc 2-stroke Suzuki. I live up in the mountains and work the poor girl pretty hard - it’s not unusual for me to do 500+km a week.

And what should I make sure my mechanic is doing?

[quote=“joesax”]It doesn’t have to be either an old clunker or brand new. There are quite a few good vehicles about of a medium age at a medium price.

My workmate knows nothing about motor vehicles but he got a very reasonable 125 for around 20,000NT and it hasn’t given him any trouble at all. I doubt that he gets enough of the regular maintenance done on it, but even if you have a new bike and you don’t maintain it it won’t run forever.

Still, if someone doesn’t know much about scooters but wants to buy a used one, I’d say that he/she should either buy it from a trusted source or get someone with a little knowhow to go along to check out scooters with him/her.[/quote]

[quote=“llary”]PS: how regularly should I be getting my scooter serviced anyway? I have a mechanic I trust and a 10 year old 125cc 2-stroke Suzuki. I live up in the mountains and work the poor girl pretty hard - it’s not unusual for me to do 500+km a week.[/quote]See Plotch’s post in the “scooter maintenance” thread here:
[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 462#461462](Scooter Maintenance
and perhaps mine above that.

I’m not sure how the transmission lubrication works on a 2-stroke motorbike. You have to change transmission oil every few thousand km on a scooter, but you don’t do this on a 4-stroke motorbike.

Okay… I think I’ll just make a monthly trip to my mechanic. It’s a two stroke so the oil just needs topping up every so often and I check tyres/mechanical damage before every trip so at ~2000km/month I guess this is a decent service interval.

[quote=“joesax”][quote=“llary”]PS: how regularly should I be getting my scooter serviced anyway? I have a mechanic I trust and a 10 year old 125cc 2-stroke Suzuki. I live up in the mountains and work the poor girl pretty hard - it’s not unusual for me to do 500+km a week.[/quote]See Plotch’s post in the “scooter maintenance” thread here:
[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 462#461462](Scooter Maintenance
and perhaps mine above that.

I’m not sure how the transmission lubrication works on a 2-stroke motorbike. You have to change transmission oil every few thousand km on a scooter, but you don’t do this on a 4-stroke motorbike.[/quote]

Thanks MJB, you got the point I was trying make. I also know a few people who paid 20~25k for their scooters and they have run fine with monthly oil changes…but I’m talking about the engine condition…many times I’ve seen exhausted shocks, poorly built forks, welded frames, warped wheels, lousy brakes and flawed elecrticals…but the engine runs well and starts every time!..

It’s happened more than once where a friend or co-worker rolled up with his new 20~25k steed and offered a test ride. After riding, I would agree that the engine ran well, but usually suggested a fork rebuild, rear shock change and front brake change(normally inadequate for heavier foreigners and knackered used machines)…usually, my suggestions are met with “how much does that cost?”…I say “from 3k to 5k, depending on which rear shock/s you chose”…then it’s “Oh no way, I don’t race my scooter, I just drive around town”. I just leave it at that until that friend tells me a few weeks later that he’s had an accident because he had no brakes or something like that!

Getting the help from someone who knows about cars, scooters or motorcycles can save money, time and lots of problems.

Cheers

Happy new year to all and safe driving and riding in 2006!

Compared to the cost of a really nice bicycle in Canada, there isn’t much excuse for driving around on something that isn’t roadworthy here.

That said, I am a bit mechanically minded on what I expect in a motorbike. Assuming the bike starts up well and the lights and gauges work well, this is my personal checklist:

#1 Does it stop well? If not this should be fixed immediately. Recommend front and rear disk brakes. A good mechanic can install rear disks for a decent price, but don’t ask me what that does for your registration papers. Disk brakes work well in the rain. I won’t ride if I have a brake problem. Too many reasons to use them here.

#2 Does it go well? When you hit the throttle, you should be able to get going and hopefully out of the way according to manufacturers design. If your bike stalls out or hiccups and backfires when you really need it to MOVE then you better get it fixed! If you are 250 pounds on a 50 cc then you might rethink your purchase. If you are too big for little power, then it’s bad. If you’re too little for big power, then it’s bad. Get a motorcycle that fits you and your riding style!

#3 Can it be controlled well? If the front shocks are leaking oil and it bounces like a trampoline, you might have a bit of problem when you need to hit the brakes and veer out of the way. You might be bouncing all over the road when you really need to control your beast. You need to get those front strut seals replaced and the tension adjusted. This is most important. If the rear shock or shocks are leaky and bouncy, replace them! Hold the front brake down hard and try to rock the bike back and forth. If you feel movement between the handlebars and the wheel, get the headset bracket bearing replaced! Any looseness or play in your steering or suspension leads to a change in your bikes geometry and the way it handles.

Of course make sure your tires are in good shape with the proper amount of air pressure. If you notice any oil leaks, fix it!

It’s really cheap here to keep any motorcycle or scooter in proper running condition. It’s really worth it. I think your average foreigner probably makes enough money. Buy a good helmet and don’t drink and drive!

Now if we could just get the locals to see things our way… :slight_smile:

[quote=“skylarkpuma”]Getting the help from someone who knows about cars, scooters or motorcycles can save money, time and lots of problems.[/quote]Absolutely. Or failing that, it’s a good idea to follow a checklist such as this one:
clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html

Plasmatron also posted a link for a good used bike buying checklist recently, but I can’t find it right now.

Without this kind of knowledge, buying a used vehicle is a bit of a gamble. I still think it’s more likely than not that someone will get a scooter in reasonably good condition for say 18,000-25,000. But there will probably be one or two things that need renovating to get it running really well.

Actually, the real problem is the one you mentioned: that many people seem completely uninterested in keeping their vehicles in good, safe condition. I suppose that buying a new scooter means that even if you don’t do anything but change the oil it should run alright for a while. But eventually, without maintenance, any vehicle will have problems.

[quote=“skylarkpuma”]Happy new year to all and safe driving and riding in 2006![/quote]Ditto that!

[quote]the trashed scooter then gets a small “quick fix=quick buck” job [/quote]That’s so true. Traded a scooter for a better one because it had ongoing problems the mechanic or myself couldn’t solve. The shop that bought the bike couldn’t solve the problem yet it was for sale the next day. :unamused:

This said, I think skylarkpuma is making good sense, rant or not.

bobepine