My ride is unlicensed / unregistered / stolen and

Life Cars & Motorcycles
21

And the Taiwanese follow these laws faithfully. Especially in regards to driving. Not yesterday, two police officers on scooters went through red right in front of me.
I’m not advocating having an illegal scooter by any means, and I don’t, but it helps when the majority of the population follows the law. Some foreigners try to get away with it because often that’s what the locals do. The police are too inept to deal with any proper law breaking because they are usually out somewhere breaking the law themselves.

“blah blah blah…you don’t respect our culture blah blah blah…”
“…yes I do. I have an illegal scooter with no papers.”

[quote]I knew a Taiwanese kid in England who had no license and drove around in a celica in London, got caught and sent to prison for 6 months :s
He couldn’t speak good English and pleaded that he was confused by the local laws, the judge just slammed the hammer down… think about it
[/quote]

Now this is utter nonsense. Why?

Penalties for Driving Without a Licence
The penalties you can incur for driving without a licence are between 3 and 6 penalty points and a maximum fine of £1000. The court may also issue you with a driving ban for a set period of time. It follows that if you are driving without a licence, you will also be charged with driving without a licence.

It is not an indictable offense, meaning you can’t be sent to prison for it. If he was disqualified but was still driving, then that changes everything, but he wouldn’t get the maximum penalty of 6 months, especially on the first offense.[/quote]

That law reads funny, how can you incur points without a licence?.
I do believe he lied to the police repeatedly and they threw the book at him.

As for the locals, yeah they ride/drive like butt monkeys, but we stand out more and are easier to victimise because of it.
Everyone has got a hard on for foreigners doing stuff wrong right now, im just saying try to do things as legit as possible, jumping lights, illegal parking is fine, but not registering the car/bike is just stupid.

22

[quote]That law reads funny, how can you incur points without a licence?.
I do believe he lied to the police repeatedly and they threw the book at him.[/quote]

The actual law is Driving other in accordance with a licence, so if I were to drive an HGV but I didn’t have a license to actually drive one, but I had a car license, then I could incur points on my car license. Same if I rode a motorcycle without doing the CBT.
If you drive with absolutely no license, then points can still be incurred. If I were to drive a car without a license, then I would get either points on my provisional and a ban, or be banned from driving or learning to drive for an amount of time, or automatically have points for a set time when I finally get a license - so I could pass my test two years after my offense, but my license would arrive with points already attached starting from the date the license was issued.
Lying in court does not carry a jail term, and neither does driving without a license. He was probably drunk or disqualified already, or had some other unrelated criminal activity he was wanted for.

[quote]As for the locals, yeah they ride/drive like butt monkeys, but we stand out more and are easier to victimise because of it.
Everyone has got a hard on for foreigners doing stuff wrong right now, im just saying try to do things as legit as possible, jumping lights, illegal parking is fine, but not registering the car/bike is just stupid.
[/quote]

I disagree with jumping reds etc. Jumping lights and illegal parking - well, I do that sometimes but not at the inconvenience of others, not jumping lights though - I think foreigners should follow the law. I spent 22 years of my life in the UK, and I noticed that there were many foreigners, from the eastern European countries especially, driving around with no license. insurance or MOT, so this is in no way unique to Taiwan. In fact, I think most foreigners here are licensed up and respect the laws here and I feel disappointed when they don’t.
Now don’t get me wrong - I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW HERE, it’s a farce - but I do have respect for the people who follow the law, which is still the majority, so why should I break it when most people don’t?

23

I just feel that everybody should at least make an effort to legally own a vehicle at the very least.
Jumping reds etc. it pisses me off when others do it, but i cant deny that at 2am in the middle of linkou i don’t swing a right to save 99 seconds of waiting.
The reason i care about them having a legit vehicle more than obeying the rules of the road is because nobody gives a rats arse about the road rules, but if some drunken foreigner gets caught on a nicked bike, i know its going to make the news and i know its going to kickstart a witch hunt…

24

Kidding, right?

25

Would have to be a very slow week for news… Mrs. Chen didn’t fry rice, no little starlet broke her fingernail etc. The only time I recall the media having a full-on field day was when the son of some official at AIT was busted on a stolen bike and put on a proper show of asshattery at the police station for the cameras. Even then it only went on for a few days, until daddy stepped in and he was released and deported. The day after… back to non-news as usual.

Mmm. There was minor media interest when some foreigner was going around making endless videos about Taiwanese bad driving habits while breaking a bunch of laws himself, but that was also over pretty quickly… at least in public. More serious than the media coverage was the reaction of the local police chief who either took it upon himself to harass every foreigner on a motorcycle or was pushed into it by his superiors. That was pretty un-funny for the foreign residents of the city in question, or anyone passing through. At least one member here decided to sell his bike because it was just too much of a pain in the ass to ride it and be stopped that often to face cops basically ordered to bring back this person’s head.

Pretty much, if you operate a vehicle like a local no-one will take any notice of you. Put on a show or point fingers, there will be an audience.

26

.

27

We can’t change the way things are so its a waste of brain cycles to try to teach locals a lesson or get upset about it.
Sometimes I shout “先生你不會” (xian sheng ni bu hui !) - “Mister, you can noooot!” when someone is crossing the red light just in front of me.
When they break and turn their head around its priceless. Like a 4 year old caught stealing candy.
Or when there’s a small (sometimes very small) kid on the back of a bike without helmet I ask the kid if it doesn’t need a helmet :stuck_out_tongue:
Major loose-of-face to their auntie or mom in front… Don’t do that when they are punks though or you might loose some teeth.

Every-time someone pushes me to drive faster (mostly too fast, especially taxi drivers) by pushing the horn I slow down and turn around and pretend to be confused. Its just Taiwanese driving here anyhow…
When you drive the most important is too chill and remember safety first.

PS. Most of the younger cops are very very nice persons. They constantly ask me about Nowitzki (the NBA player) once they know I’m from Germany. So err, try to change the subject if you are in trouble :slight_smile:

Most funny thing that happened to me:

  • I cross the street at a red light (wife in the back) (three way road)
  • Cop on the other side of the road, stops us, asks her we didn’t see the red light
  • Wife says “I saw it but I think he didn’t see it.” (back stabbing b***?)
  • I say in Chinese that she should pay then
  • He just let us go…
28

Those foreigner’s scooters, I thought it was something which people did 15 years ago.

Ultimately, the risk is to be sent to Sanxia, followed by a kick in the butt out of the country. That’s a bloody high price to pay for a cheap ride.

29

I know a few righteous people aren’t gonna like what I’m writing, but here is what really happen in Taipei with scooters in this situation:
I was in the same situation for over a year with two different scooters. I had no ARC and needed to go around. When first scooter was impounded (I didn’t even have the papers of the bike and the owner was a catholic priest who was a friend of a friend of a friend… that i couldn’t trace), I went with a TW friend to the local impound lot, she chatted with them a bit, I gave them my name and prints, she did the same (she had a legal license), and we left with the scooter. No other questions asked.
The second scooter had raked up so much in fines from the first owner that he wasn’t interested in selling it the normal way and sold it to me at a 10k discount (I still had no ARC). I rode it for a long while and never had a single issue. Even though I was pulled over by the cops a dozen time, it never was an issue (I do not speak mandarin with the police). The cops didn’t care about the blue registration paper that had expired, and did not care that the bike belonged to a friend. I was flashed a few times by speed cameras, and probably forgot to pay for several parking charges. Nothing even happened. The bike was insured normally. I sold the bike (along with the ARC of the original owner) to a friend who rode it for over a year, with zero problems. He has now just sold it for a good price. Still no problems. I know of a few other people who have had bikes in the same situation.

Bottom line is: Do it if you cannot do otherwise. My current bike (much pricier) is in my name, it feels safer.

30

I also met a chap with an unlicensed BMW bike which arrived on a palate. It was riden with nothing but German plates on for over a year, and nothing happened. It wasn’t pulled over, confiscated or ticketed. It actually couldn’t be logically according to the law as it isn’t the property of the Taiwan government. This is as far as I can gather in accordance with statute law.

31

oh i’d be interested in this… but considering it done in taipei.

the other day talking of bikes, a friend of a friend said they had a bike (the same i used to have in an other country) but it was an unlicensed one from Japan.
There was some mumbo jumbo about a 3 times provisionary license, which i have never heard of. The bike is over 10 years old, under 250cc.

What would i risk getting caught with it ?

From experience the cops aren’t afraid of me even pretending i don’t understand chinese, i still get issued fines or take the breatheliser test. So i’d be willing to license it, however I’m not sure that is possible from reading other threads on cars.

32

it’s just a warning, next time you’ll get a fine. Come to Taichung, there are no cops at all :wink:

33

yes i know and i am planning on moving :laughing: however any ideo of the fine for riding japanese trash, wouldn’t they confiscate the bike (at least not let you ride home on it ?)

34

[quote=“forefit”]So the other day I turned left on my scooter at a busy intersection and got caught by the cops sitting there and waiting for me. After pretending to be a dumb clueless foreigner (I knew exactly what I had done I’m just kinda wanted to get home ASAP) I get slapped with a lovely fine. However nowhere on the ticket does it state as to how much the fine is, how is much a traffic violation like this going to be?? or since it doesn’t say how much it is on the ticket I don’t have to pay a fine? (Yes, I know wishful thinking and that) Also the scooter was driven by me but is in the name of someone else who has long since left the country but we never exchanged the papers who would be liable for the fine. I suppose I should just take the fine like a man really.

After reading this post I don’t think I really should be driving on the road, driving a scooter with no documents, doing left turns on intersections and trying to not bother pay the fine LOL[/quote]

I don’t understand the problem… :ponder:

35

I haven’t read through, but I think this is the best thread to post my question…

my friend of mine left her scooter and went back to her country and decided not to come back, so I bought it from her… she sent her registration and document from Russia to me here in Taiwan (duh…) … when we tried to transfer it to my name, they said that they need the original arc and passport of the owner, we asked if a copy would suffice but they won’t agree… she’s waiting for her visa for travelling to Europe so asking her to airmail her passport is out of the question (plus, that’s too stupid to do because you shouldn’t) the arc is fine, but it’s expiring at the end of September… is there any other way? the scooter is technically brand new since she bought just last year and it hasn’t been used for 4 months now since she left taiwan… anyone knows about what to do? ditching the scooter is too much of a waste -_-

36

[quote=“mariadee”]I haven’t read through, but I think this is the best thread to post my question…

my friend of mine left her scooter and went back to her country and decided not to come back, so I bought it from her… she sent her registration and document from Russia to me here in Taiwan (duh…) … when we tried to transfer it to my name, they said that they need the original arc and passport of the owner, we asked if a copy would suffice but they won’t agree… she’s waiting for her visa for travelling to Europe so asking her to airmail her passport is out of the question (plus, that’s too stupid to do because you shouldn’t) the arc is fine, but it’s expiring at the end of September… is there any other way? the scooter is technically brand new since she bought just last year and it hasn’t been used for 4 months now since she left Taiwan… anyone knows about what to do? ditching the scooter is too much of a waste -_-[/quote]

Just ride it. It won’t be a problem. It’s more of a problem if it’s in your name (unless it’s a very expensive bike).

37

Hello, I have a similar situation. I bought a scooter from my friend who left the Taiwan an year ago. When I went to transfer the name, I found that hell a lot of paper works to be done to get the scooter in my name. Even my friend tried to send me the documents through the Taipei Cultural Centre Office in his country, but his local government has to give clearance and they asked 150USD for it. So there is no way to get the document from my friend. Now I have the scooter with all the legal documents except the name. Is it possible to sell the scooter or is there any other way to change the name. Please help me in this regard.

38

[quote=“mariadee”]
my friend of mine left her scooter and went back to her country and decided not to come back, so I bought it from her… she sent her registration and document from Russia to me here in Taiwan (duh…) … when we tried to transfer it to my name, they said that they need the original arc and passport of the owner, we asked if a copy would suffice but they won’t agree… she’s waiting for her visa for travelling to Europe so asking her to airmail her passport is out of the question (plus, that’s too stupid to do because you shouldn’t) the arc is fine, but it’s expiring at the end of September… is there any other way? the scooter is technically brand new since she bought just last year and it hasn’t been used for 4 months now since she left Taiwan… anyone knows about what to do? ditching the scooter is too much of a waste -_-[/quote]

I think this too will apply to your situation.

I’m also confused as to why your friend’s government has anything to do with your friend’s property. I guess my confusion is why your friend has to pay his government $150US to give clearance to transfer the title.
It’s not like the title to the scooter is held in that country where your friend is from. To me it’s like his government is just trying to take money from him for doing nothing other than making bullshit paperwork. So
I’m guessing what will work for you is to get your friends passport and ARC and have the registration of the scooter and take that down to the DMV.

I’m also surprised in what I quoted above that the Taiwan DMV says that they need the passport of the owner to do this. I think that the person at the DMV was just being difficult. I’ve registered a scooter in my name and the DMV
didn’t need my passport to do it, just my ARC. So why would it take a passport and ARC to transfer a scooter from a foreigner to another foreigner? Hell, my scooter was registered by the scooter shop with just my ARC and the shop
owner had a chop made in English so he could use it to sign my registration. Though I must say I was really pissed off when I was getting a car transferred to my name and I couldn’t use the same chop to sign the registration. I had to
come in and sign the stupid thing myself.

39

That’s where you will find the answer to the question is quite startling.
When you register a vehicle, you actually register it to the government and hand over property rights. It isn’t your vehicle if you have had it registered. This is almost always the case in most countries. In the U.K. for example, when your papers are returned after registering a vehicle in “your” name, it will state the name you acquired, and which was registered on your behalf (this name is not you, a “human”) at birth or any name you later registered and state that the name on the form is the “registered keeper”, not the owner. The government owns it.

40

That’s where you will find the answer to the question is quite startling.
When you register a vehicle, you actually register it to the government and hand over property rights. It isn’t your vehicle if you have had it registered. This is almost always the case in most countries. In the U.K. for example, when your papers are returned after registering a vehicle in “your” name, it will state the name you acquired, and which was registered on your behalf (this name is not you, a “human”) at birth or any name you later registered and state that the name on the form is the “registered keeper”, not the owner. The government owns it.[/quote]

Have dealt with a lot of V5 registration documents and the reason it states The registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner is to warn prospective purchasers. IT DOES NOT MEAN THE GOVERNMENT HAS OR EVER HAD OWNERSHIP of the vehicle. It may be owned by a leasing company for instance but you must register it in your name (so the plod can collect on fines etc.) Sorry but where on earth did you get the idea the UK government “actually” owns the Vehicle???