My salary and apartment costs and general advice

Hello!

I just arrived in Taiwan about 13 days ago. So far I really like it. I’m proud to be a teacher and it’s exciting being in a new place.

Since I’m very new I’m just curious about my circumstances. I teach PE at a private high school for 70,000 NT a month. I’m assuming after taxes I’ll net 55k. My rent is 12,000 NT a month with water/cable/internet provided. I live very close to the Dapinglin MRT station. I’m curious if I’m being overcharged. I expected to pay around 10k.

It’s a pretty nice suite. I’d say about 15’ by 25’ with a private bathroom.

Having graduated college recently I have amassed a considerable amount of debt in college loans and am hoping to save 30k a month to wire to my bank accounts back home (USA).

I’m just curious what you guys think of my current situation, if this is a good salary, and a good price for my apartment. Also, if you think it’s feasible to save this amount of money.

Best wishes, Micah

The apartment price sounds good especially with all the bills covered.

Your salary is also good. You will be charged 20% taxes but your actual rate will be much lower so you will get much of it back starting next year.

So you expect to live on NT25,000 a month? Possible but tight. I think saving NT20,000 a month is more reasonable until you start to pay less in taxes.

Thanks for your response.

It’s hard for me to forumulate a realistic budget having only been here for 2 weeks.

Right now I’m assuming

70000 gross
56000 net
-12000 rent
-2000 electricity
-2000 phone/MRT/bus
-10000 food

Saving 20k is probably much more realistic as I’d like to also go out on the weekends and explore this beautiful country.
I went surfing this weekend and taking the express train to Yilan and back, taxi, renting a surfboard, lunch and snacks costed me about 1k.

I’ll probably be in debt the rest of my life… It’s ridiculous how much college costed me in the States.

Best wishes, Micah

[quote=“micahjrowe”]
I’ll probably be in debt the rest of my life… It’s ridiculous how much college costed me in the States.[/quote]

Then fuck it, and don’t pay it back. I’m not going to. Education is a business now because its considered a commodity. There are a few that can afford it, and many that can’t. Education should be free, but clearly it’s not. Fuck 'em all! :fume:

[quote=“micahjrowe”]Thanks for your response.

It’s hard for me to forumulate a realistic budget having only been here for 2 weeks.

Right now I’m assuming

70000 gross
56000 net
-12000 rent
-2000 electricity
-2000 phone/MRT/bus
-10000 food

Saving 20k is probably much more realistic as I’d like to also go out on the weekends and explore this beautiful country.
I went surfing this weekend and taking the express train to Yilan and back, taxi, renting a surfboard, lunch and snacks costed me about 1k.

I’ll probably be in debt the rest of my life… It’s ridiculous how much college costed me in the States.

Best wishes, Micah[/quote]

Hello Micah, welcome to Forumosa.

I live in the same area and used to pay more or less the same for an older apartment, with kitchen, but utilities/Internet are paid separately. If you are paying that for an independent studio seems OKish, but I am afraid I don’t quite understand the measurements you wrote.

Tapinglin is considered “prime” area because of the double MRT line -I know, it is not working yet, but they are charging top real estate prices anyhow. Plus it is very convenient -transportation hub, shopping areas, hospitals, etc. It used to be much cheaper before, but still it is better prized than other areas of Taipei City, while still being close enough to downtown.

Most studios I’ve seen in the area are 8 to 10K, all included, but tend to be small. If your is bigger/newer/in a building with elevator and garbage service, then it is OK.

As to budget/savings I think you are being quite realistic. I would just suggest to start slowly, as usually during the first months there are many expenses. For instance, winter is coming and you may need a comforter or a heater. Open a separate account, hopefully in a different bank, and start by putting 10K there. Second month put 15, then 20, then … you catch my drift. See how much you can put without straining too much.

I think you will take home more than 55K, maybe close to 60K, after taking away taxes/national health insurance/retirement funds/etc. Don’t worry: you will probably also get a nice tax refund -make sure you get a receipt of your rent- and helath insurance ehre is cheap and services are good and cheaper so it is a good investment and trust me, you will be using them somewhere down the line. BTW, both Tzu Chi Hospital and Cardinal Tien have English speaking doctors, if so required -hopefully not.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

by the way its 18% tax, after six months its going to 12% at least…maybe less… depending on how much your company declares to the tax office. For example I get 55k and pay only 5% tax, cause the company declares 30k or so as overtime… even though I’m leaving on time every day :smiley:

Thanks for your responses!

This forum is an amazing resource and I value your experience and educated opinions.

I’ve considered not paying back my student loans… However, if I ever wanted to return to the States to pursue a master’s degree for example, I’d be screwed.

I do agree with you though, I think education, along with healthcare, and healthy food should be affordable to all… Pipedream? eh?

So far I’m happy in Tapinglin and Taiwan in general. Though, it was rather expensive moving here. My plane ticket, couple months rent, deposit, visa/ARC, health check, and criminal background check all added up to a pretty penny. I can see a light down at the end of the tunnel so to speak. In a couple months I think I’ll be doing pretty good.

Best regards, Micah

Hi Micah,
i’m a PE teacher in Singapore. How did you land a job teaching PE in Taiwan? I have a Bachelors in Arts and Diploma in PE. I have been teaching PE to college students for 12 years now. I am looking to having a change in environment. I still love sports and dance. Hope to find a job in Taiwan that is sports-related, not necessarily teaching.

[quote=“micahjrowe”]Thanks for your response.

It’s hard for me to forumulate a realistic budget having only been here for 2 weeks.

Right now I’m assuming

70000 gross
56000 net
-12000 rent
-2000 electricity
-2000 phone/MRT/bus
-10000 food[/quote]

That’s too much for electricity. Turn the lights off and don’t use the AC (or use it a lot less). I’ve lived without AC for about three years now and I live in Taidong (below the Tropic of Cancer).
That’s probably not far off for phone and transportation.
That’s definitely way too much for food. My wife and I eat quite well for 5,000NTD/month, and that also includes feeding two dogs. It means we mostly eat at home though. That’s the trade off if you’re trying to save money.

Aside from rent, you should be able to get away with spending less than 20,000NTD/month, fairly easily. 56,000 - (12,000 + 20,000) = 24,000NTD/month in savings. When you stop paying so much tax/get it back, it should be possible for you to save an average of 30,000NTD/month, though not if you’re planning on going out a lot.

[quote]Saving 20k is probably much more realistic as I’d like to also go out on the weekends and explore this beautiful country.
I went surfing this weekend and taking the express train to Yilan and back, taxi, renting a surfboard, lunch and snacks costed me about 1k.[/quote]

Several years ago, I used to surf almost every weekend. If you’re looking to do it a lot, it’s going to be cheaper to buy your own board and stay over there. I bought mine for 13,000NTD, if I remember correctly. At first, I was sharing a beach house with some other foreigners and we were each paying 3,000NTD/month for that. Then, I moved to a surf shop. I was paying 3,000NTD/year (yes, per year) for storage and staying in a dorm. Go and talk to surf shops in Toucheng (the one I was at was called Blue Ocean). They also used to pick me up from the station, and sometimes, I could get a lift back with someone to Taoyuan and pay 50NTD for fuel.

If you can figure out things like this, you’ll slash the cost of living here quite dramatically.

Depends. Actually, food for one family is cheaper than for a single person. Plus a new arrival will have trouble adapting the stomach to the local fare, hence the need for frequent forays into Western restaurants, with the resulting bill. He’s got nowhere to cook for himslef, hence depends on external sources for food completely.

Same with power. It takes time to adjust the body thermostat -some of us never did.

Tapinglin has cheaper restaurants than other parts of Taipei city, but the really cheap places have left -the 50nt bingtang or bento box, those are gone. Try the 80nt curry at Cute Village, on Tafung Street. :wink:

I’d say phone would be more expensive -1400 nts for limitless data plans, for instance. MRT is definetivel more -2000nts I’d say, since the card can be used for knicknacks and whatchamacallits at 7-11 (like water, chewing gum, crackers, a pen, etc). Very useful.

I spend 10K on food, plus 7K on pets, plus… well, I still manage to save, and I make less than the OP, I think. Worst debt is local credit cards. :blush: So yes, it depends on the person.

[quote=“Icon”][quote=“micahjrowe”]Thanks for your response.

I think you will take home more than 55K, maybe close to 60K, after taking away taxes/national health insurance/retirement funds/etc. Don’t worry: you will probably also get a nice tax refund -make sure you get a receipt of your rent- and helath insurance ehre is cheap and services are good and cheaper so it is a good investment and trust me, you will be using them somewhere down the line. BTW, both Tzu Chi Hospital and Cardinal Tien have English speaking doctors, if so required -hopefully not.

Feel free to ask any other questions.[/quote][/quote]

How much is national health insurance - would you by any chance know?
I am on a slightly higher income than micahjrowe (85300NTW after tax), and was hoping to
be able to afford a flat at the 35000NTW/month range, while still be able to put ~30000NTW away every month. But
I dont know how much health insurance is - everybody says it is cheap, but how cheap?

Would greatly appreciate some numbers on this. Cheers.

I’d say 600 (students) to about a thousand nts (average), maybe more if a family. Per month.

Then you pay like 150nts each time you see a doctor or like 300 to 600 if you go to a hospital. Then hospital care depends on whether it is covered or not, but still reasonable.

It is OK to put your savings goals, but remember the first months are hard, so give yourself some breathing room. Do keep thos enumbers in mind and aim for them, to organize your budget. But put basic needs first.

That said, 35K should put you in the very big or extremely luxurious apartment, like in Xinyi area. Do you really need that? If you are by yourself, you can budget 25K for a really nice and big place, 2 bedrooms, furnished, in an area close to an MRT, no need to splurge. 35K up for me sounds like the budget for a family or at least a place with 3 bedrooms, furnished, in Tianmu or Xinyi. Depends on what you need.

[quote=“Icon”]I’d say 600 (students) to about a thousand nts (average), maybe more if a family. Per month.

Then you pay like 150nts each time you see a doctor or like 300 to 600 if you go to a hospital. Then hospital care depends on whether it is covered or not, but still reasonable.

It is OK to put your savings goals, but remember the first months are hard, so give yourself some breathing room. Do keep thos enumbers in mind and aim for them, to organize your budget. But put basic needs first.

That said, 35K should put you in the very big or extremely luxurious apartment, like in Xinyi area. Do you really need that? If you are by yourself, you can budget 25K for a really nice and big place, 2 bedrooms, furnished, in an area close to an MRT, no need to splurge. 35K up for me sounds like the budget for a family or at least a place with 3 bedrooms, furnished, in Tianmu or Xinyi. Depends on what you need.[/quote]

Thanks a lot of those numbers! That is pretty cheap - and I have heard good things about the Taiwanese health system and hospitals! I am single, so yes 35K is probably too much - I was perhaps being conservative in my estimate. But then, I really am aiming for a very liveable place, i.e. clean and no (well virtually no) cockroaches/spiders etc (huge priority for me). And I’d like a nice, functioning kitchen as well. Looking at various adds online, that tells me that given those criteria, 35K may not be that far off the mark.

Thanks again!

If you are looking at the ads in English, or a website from a real estate agent, then you are getting the inflated for expats on comnpany budget price. Truly, this issue of the bugs depends not only on being a new or fancy place, 35K is really too much for one single person, me thinks. Can you post links?

Look, this is a tropical place, and actually bugs are small. Where I come from, bugs are hand size. Roaches are shoe size. And I am serious!

[quote=“Icon”]If you are looking at the ads in English, or a website from a real estate agent, then you are getting the inflated for expats on comnpany budget price. Truly, this issue of the bugs depends not only on being a new or fancy place, 35K is really too much for one single person, me thinks. Can you post links?

Look, this is a tropical place, and actually bugs are small. Where I come from, bugs are hand size. Roaches are shoe size. And I am serious![/quote]

I see - good to know.
One site I was looking at was this:
sublet.com/spider/leareacomm … ll%20Areas

the rent is in the 1000USD - 2000USD range, and yet judging from the pictures they don’t look that amazing.
I have looked at a few other places (some in Chinese), but it all seems to be similar in price range as the one above.

I appreciate that bugs - relatively speaking - are small (even in Taiwan), but it is all in the mind :slight_smile:
I am from a country where the only bugs we have are ants (small ones)… and the spiders (no larger than a dime) live in the forrest.
I have no qualms with bugs as long as they stay in the street or in the jungle, and not in my apartment.

cheers!

Bound-foot shoe size, or NBA star shoe size?

[quote=“Icon”]Depends. Actually, food for one family is cheaper than for a single person. Plus a new arrival will have trouble adapting the stomach to the local fare, hence the need for frequent forays into Western restaurants, with the resulting bill. He’s got nowhere to cook for himslef, hence depends on external sources for food completely.

Same with power. It takes time to adjust the body thermostat -some of us never did.

Tapinglin has cheaper restaurants than other parts of Taipei city, but the really cheap places have left -the 50nt bingtang or bento box, those are gone. Try the 80nt curry at Cute Village, on Tafung Street. :wink:

I’d say phone would be more expensive -1400 nts for limitless data plans, for instance. MRT is definetivel more -2000nts I’d say, since the card can be used for knicknacks and whatchamacallits at 7-11 (like water, chewing gum, crackers, a pen, etc). Very useful.

I spend 10K on food, plus 7K on pets, plus… well, I still manage to save, and I make less than the OP, I think. Worst debt is local credit cards. :blush: So yes, it depends on the person.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this is absolute nonsense and you have no idea how to handle money if you’re spending 10,000NTD on food for one person and 7,000NTD on pets. No wonder plenty of foreigners in this country can’t save money. You guys need to get with the programme and also stop offering such irresponsible financial advice. When you’re old, the Taiwanese government is not going to give you a pension which means that you have to save for your own retirement right NOW (and I remember you writing a few months ago that some years you struggle to save 100,000NTD in a whole year), not telling everyone how you can’t go without air-conditioning or Western restaurants. Yeah, and I can’t go without my chateau in the south of France and my 50 foot yacht either. In about twenty years or so, we’re going to start seeing a whole class of working poor geriatrics from Western countries in Asia, people whose profligacy knew no bounds in their youth, but has finally caught up with them. Entire Taiwanese middle class families survive quite adequately on less money than some of the cash that people on this forum claim to throw around each month.

NT8-10,000 for food is not unreasonable. Fruit and veggies and even meat are much more expensive in Taipei than the south and east. My Tainan friends have yelled at vendors in my neighborhood as they thought they were being cheated.

Of course I would justify this amount only if you are buying good quality foods, oils, spices, organic veggies (a must in Taiwan if you have any sense), free range eggs and chickens, fresh fish, etc. Yes, I could spend NT5000 a month but I would be buying wet market veggies and other questionable items.

Eating healthily is also an investment in the future. Too many people end up with poor health in later years which means the sacrifices to get there were not worth it.

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]
I’m sorry, but this is absolute nonsense and you have no idea how to handle money if you’re spending 10,000NTD on food for one person [/quote]

Most people don’t enjoy foraging around for nuts and berries in the forest in order to save up for a nice, shiny coffin in their old age. I cook at home and eat out maybe once or twice a month, and there’s no way the wife and I can manage on 15k per month. And we’re mostly vegetarian. We don’t all live in tents on the hills, forgoing running water. MOST people here live in cities.

I have two cats and they cost me WAY more than 7k per month as they’re special needs. Would you prefer that I euthanize my companions? :raspberry:

You’ve got a bloody cheek sometimes, mate. Just because you can teach and live with a fan in 40C heat and ridiculous humidity, doesn’t mean that the rest of the world is a bunch of Spartan survivalists. And not all of us like eating oily garbage every fucking day. What are you saving for? Platinum colostomy bags?

[quote]
Entire Taiwanese middle class families survive quite adequately on less money than some of the cash that people on this forum claim to throw around each month.[/quote]

Yeah, well they have a MASSIVE support structure. Mommy does their laundry, Auntie brings them food three times a week, Daddy throws them hong baos, Uncle gives them part-time work. They have work rights, as citizens, to set up stalls if they so wish. It’s a ridiculous equation. :no-no:

Try making the same Taiwanese wage, but without the massive support that most Taiwanese have (live at home, so free rent, gets hongbao, etc.) and you will finally understand what “hardship” means.

Not all Taiwanese have the massive support structure either, like orphans, single parents, etc. and they do not get much social support except by the way of religious organizations.