My take on some different kinds of BIG BIKES for Taiwan

[quote=“MotorcycleRider”]I would still recommend buying a Kawasaki even after all the sh*t I went through

Okay, come to think about it, buy Honda.[/quote] :laughing:

It seems to me that if people want to be fairly confident about trouble-free maintenance they should buy a common bike that mechanics are used to fixing and for which parts are plentiful.

There are a lot of Honda CB400s about. They’re reasonably priced and are presumably pretty reliable. I know that the OP is looking for something bigger but for anyone else who’s thinking about a first “big” bike a CB400 could be a good thing. I don’t really like the idea of 4 cylinders but anyway I think that if I had the cash I’d go for one of those.

@ Mordeth

What plasmatron, skylarkpuma, UKbikerchic and myself have in common is that we all owned or are still owning a Kawasaki. I owned and was riding Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki - enduros, naked bikes and sport tourers - and never had a serious problem with anyone of them. i agree that the Honda built quality and brakes are probably best. The only arguments that, IMHO, speak against a Honda are that Honda does not maintain an own dealership and own service stations in Taiwan and that their price is higher than the other Japanese brands. skylarkpuma owned a Honda and two of our riding pals ride on Honda as well. There were two recalls in the US and Europe - but none in Taiwan, despite the brakes were concerned, as Honda does not sell the bikes directly in Taiwan. It was not easy to convince the ‘unofficial’ importers in Taiwan to do the repair free of charge and charge Honda in Europe, USA or Japan from where the bikes were bought and imported. As I mentioned above, Kawasaki is the only Japanese dealer that has own sales outlets and service stations in Taiwan and thus recalls and repairs are no big deal. As AWOL asked our opinion I voiced mine but also accept yours, despite I don’t agree in full with it. I guess that’s what’s called ‘tolerance’. That the ‘3 pals’ have the same opinion and similar bikes at the moment is the result of our conclusion, after riding sports bikes and sports tourers in Taiwan for a certain while, that Taiwan’s roads are not very suitable for other bikes, if you don’t just ride and 2 or 3 lane roads but also on small country side roads and over mountains roads.

As UKbikerchic mentioned correctly (IMHO), sports bikes are only good for shorter rides (‘coffee shop riders’) without luggage (max. what you can fit into a tank bag) and just for the rider but not with a passenger. If you want to see the beauty of Taiwan - and the best places are not exactly at 3 lane roads - a more touring oriented bike is better than a high power sports bike.

He is looking for a big bike, not a ‘rusk saw’. :laughing: Also, as soon as you tasted a 400 you are looking for more. That’s why so many CB400s are on sales, despite they are actually not bad (even suitable for touring).

exactly… BikeRiders 10R undoubtedly up and died for the simple reason that it was not properly serviced… this isn’t BikeRider’s fault it’s the fault of the incompetent wrenches that have spent their lives working on 90c scooters and suddenly magically upgrade to being Big Bike Specialists overnight… a 3 day training course later and suddenly these guys think they are qualified… In other countries any biggish dealer is staffed by mechs who have a lifetime’s experience working on bikes and bikes only… Here even if they have the technical knowledge they still use the “ughh… cha-bu-duo… pass the binlang” approach to fixing and servicing bikes… crush washers aren’t replaced, bolts and fasteners are not tightened to correct torque, seals are re-used over and over, tolerances are not checked, check items are left off the list all because of the built in Taiwanese lazy arsed, “cha-bu-duo” mentality, because on scooters those things don’t really matter and because they do not have the ability to read and understand the technical service manuals that the major bike manufacturers publish in many languages but NOT Chinese… Honestly if you ask 99% of local riders and even dealers about whether or not service job XYZ is necessary they’ll say “ha, no need… it’s okay, don’t worry about it, you think too much…” so let’s think about this, the combined knowledge of 60 years of Japanese bike manufacturing and engineering experience designed and put forward by teams of highly skilled and trained engineers vs. what some rice rocket hero you met at the gas station, who moonlights as a bike mechanic reckons…

on big bikes, especially sports bikes simple maintenance is utterly essential… I say especially sportsbikes, because they are in a higher state of tune that any other type of bike, meaning that they operate at a very finely balanced point and even a little deviation that naturally occurs during normal use of the bike MUST be adjusted and serviced to keep everything running correctly, or it’s spiral into for eg. a blown, seized gearbox just as BiekRider has very quickly… that’s why sportsbikes have the shortest service intervals of any bikes, fact… sure Honda build quality, etc etc… couldn’t agree more BUT that’s assuming it’s being properly taken care of and that, as I’ve already said requires special tools only available from the manufacturers, in depth, specialized technical knowledge of each and every model, access to all manner of OEM parts, diagnostic computers to read out errors and update the software and firmware on complex modern bikes where countless sensors and servos and parameters are essential to proper operation and an understanding of how to properly service and maintain a modern engine and all the multitude of subsystems that keep it running…

As an example to get my BMW serviced properly I had to eventually complain to BMW in Germany, then to the BMW’s Asia area manager in Beijing and then eventually I had to get the boss of Taiwan BMW to come to Taichung personally to service the bike correctly, since nobody else on the island even in Taipei could do the job properly… the ONLY reason that happened is because they are BMW and their technical backup is the best in the world and they lay a lot of stake in that reputation so my constant complaints filtered down the line and they were forced to take action…when my bike was finally correctly serviced and set up, the difference was huge, night and day, like a different bike… but if that’s BMW, can you imagine trying to get a proper service done by any other dealer in Taiwan, or laughably from a grey importer…" erm Hi, yes I bought a Honda CBXR1600 DeathBlaster, I’d like to have you take a look at it, it needs a firmware update and a service but my local greasemonkey doesn’t have the proper tools…" “…wei… li-gong-xia-mi… click!”

Bottom line is we can discuss the relative merits of all kind of bikes all day long, and sure we’ll all have our favourite favourites, but you CANNOT overlook the fact that you are buying a bike IN TAIWAN… this introduces a whole new range of practical real world considerations that need to be taken into account… Big bikes are a serious investment in both time and money and at the end of the day your life’s on the line, not just your wallet… The choice of what bike you get should be tempered by real world considerations of what’s feasbile, practical and reliable IN TAIWAN, not just that the new copy of RiceRacerMagazine says the new CrotchRocket9000 is the most suuper duuper, lightning fast blast machine ever made, therefore it’s the best bike to have…"

An alternative to the CB400 would the 1300 version. Plenty of used bikes out there, and tons of parts. No worries there. Plus, the bike is very reliable. I knoe about 10 guys who have one or owned one. None have every complained about any mechanical or quality problems. You can pick one up for around $350,000NT or less for a used one. Most used ones I have seen for sale have already been fitted with aftermarket pipes and steering dampeners.

Here’s a clean one: tw.f3.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/c19804602

Here are a bunch more of Hondas:
tw.bid.yahoo.com/tw/2092081456-c … ew=0&ast=0

[quote=“hm”]What plasmatron, skylarkpuma, UKbikerchic and myself have in common is that we all owned or are still owning a Kawasaki.
I owned and was riding Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki - enduros, naked bikes and sport tourers - and never had a serious problem with anyone of them. I agree that the Honda built quality and brakes are probably best. The only arguments that, IMHO, speak against a Honda are that Honda does not maintain an own dealership and own service stations in Taiwan and that their price is higher than the other Japanese brands. skylarkpuma owned a Honda and two of our riding pals ride on Honda as well. There were two recalls in the US and Europe - but none in Taiwan, despite the brakes were concerned, as Honda does not sell the bikes directly in Taiwan. It was not easy to convince the ‘unofficial’ importers in Taiwan to do the repair free of charge and charge Honda in Europe, USA or Japan from where the bikes were bought and imported. As I mentioned above, Kawasaki is the only Japanese dealer that has own sales outlets and service stations in Taiwan and thus recalls and repairs are no big deal. As AWOL asked our opinion I voiced mine but also accept yours, despite I don’t agree in full with it. I guess that’s what’s called ‘tolerance’. That the ‘3 pals’ have the same opinion and similar bikes at the moment is the result of our conclusion, after riding sports bikes and sports tourers in Taiwan for a certain while, that Taiwan’s roads are not very suitable for other bikes, if you don’t just ride and 2 or 3 lane roads but also on small country side roads and over mountains roads.

As UKbikerchic mentioned correctly (IMHO), sports bikes are only good for shorter rides (‘coffee shop riders’) without luggage (max. what you can fit into a tank bag) and just for the rider but not with a passenger. If you want to see the beauty of Taiwan - and the best places are not exactly at 3 lane roads - a more touring oriented bike is better than a high power sports bike.[/quote]

Well written, good post. I can honestly say that your one post has swayed me more towards buying a bike like the Z750 in the pics above…but I think I’ll stick with the Honda equivalent of :wink: .

Come on Mordeth, get a supermoto! Honda makes the XR400SM. They are cheap to maintain, and their engines are made for thrashing. With their suspension, they were made for Taiwan roads.

Check it out:

honda.co.jp/XR/

honda.co.jp/XR/motard/400/index.html

[quote=“plasmatron”]

As an example to get my BMW serviced properly I had to eventually complain to BMW in Germany, then to the BMW’s Asia area manager in Beijing and then eventually I had to get the boss of Taiwan BMW to come to Taichung personally to service the bike correctly, since nobody else on the island even in Taipei could do the job properly…

Bottom line is we can discuss the relative merits of all kind of bikes all day long, and sure we’ll all have our favourite favourites, but you CANNOT overlook the fact that you are buying a bike IN TAIWAN… this introduces a whole new range of practical real world considerations that need to be taken into account… Big bikes are a serious investment in both time and money and at the end of the day your life’s on the line, not just your wallet… The choice of what bike you get should be tempered by real world considerations of what’s feasbile, practical and reliable IN TAIWAN, not just that the new copy of RiceRacerMagazine says the new CrotchRocket9000 is the most suuper duuper, lightning fast blast machine ever made, therefore it’s the best bike to have…"[/quote]

So your point is what? If you buy a BMW you’ll only need to phone 3 or 4 places and if you are lucky enough to get some rich guy to drive to your city to set the bike up then maybe it’ll be ok? And if you own a Honda you’ll just have to find a mechanic yourself? Pardon me for saying so, but the merits of owning a BMW don’t seem to outweigh Honda not having an official dealer here.

Just a guess…but why wouldn’t Honda the most popular brand of motorbike (they sell more than any other company) not have a dealership here? Could it be that Honda needs qualified mechanics…while Kawasaki and BMW don’t really care who becomes an “official” dealership?
There is an official BMW bike dealership near my house. They are the absolute worst mechanics I have ever given any of my big bikes to. I was good friends with the boss so I gave him a few chances…but not once did he fix anything…and they made a few things worse. They even put a gear thing that connects to the shifter in backwards…so everytime I shifted it would take a second or two before the shifter popped back up. He warrantied some work he did on my bike…but rather than go through the hassel of allowing those idiots to fix it for free, I instead asked around and found someone capable to pay to do the work.

So…considering the official dealerships aren’t any better (and in many cases worse) than your average big bike mechanic…then isn’t safe to assume buying a bike that is less likely to need major servicing is the safer way to go?

P.S. I’d like to point out that I don’t argue just for the sake of arguing…I wholeheartedly agreed with hm’s post.

[quote=“MotorcycleRider”]Come on Mordeth, get a supermoto! Honda makes the XR400SM. They are cheap to maintain, and their engines are made for thrashing. With their suspension, they were made for Taiwan roads.

Check it out:

honda.co.jp/XR/

honda.co.jp/XR/motard/400/index.html[/quote]

I would but I just bought a nice new sports helmet for 14,000nt. If I buy a motard then I need to buy one of those open helmets with goggels (sp?).

BMW bikes with flat twin (‘boxer’) are [much] more expensive than Japanese bikes but IMHO have the best suspension I can think of. The cardan drive is [nearly] maintenance free. Best of all, the bike needs maintenance only very 10K km and not just after 5K ~ 6K km. The tires for the GS are rather cheap compared to sports bikes tires and last longer. The engine concept is so old that it probably already powered Noah’s arche. You can service the 1150GS easily yourself (except the servo assisted brakes, which were introduced end of 2002), if you don’t have two left hands. IMHO, it’s the perfect touring bike for Taiwan. Over time the higher purchasing price is off-set by the lower running and maintenance costs. Thus, my suggestion is - get a 2nd hand 1150GS, preferable before 11/2002 (with ‘normal’ - not servo assisted - ABS brakes). They are now selling for around NT$ 500K.
A cheaper alternative is the 1150R (also best if built before 11/2002).

Keep it. It’s safer than an MX helmet, which are designed and made for more air vent but not as safe as a full face integral helmet in terms of impact. Besides, you don’t get wet in your face when it rains.

absolutely… I completely agree, BMW Taiwan are by mostly incompetent fools… BUT the difference is, and what I was trying to get at was that as a customer of a legit importer (especially BMW) you have the ability to drag them over the coals until they are forced to improve their service… BMW used to suck a lot… but due to constant complaints to Germany from myself and other people and the fact that the boss of BMW Taiwan is one of the few Taiwanese guys who really understands and appreciates the importance of flawless technical knowledge and dealer customer service, means that things are improving, they have compulsory week long technical seminars for BMW dealer’s mechanics, if they don’t cut it they are fired, just while I was at the Taichung dealership with the BMW boss, he was walking around going "throw away ALL those tools… now, do it, iwant ot watch them being thrown away… buy new ones, from Germany… this whole service area is crap… build a new one, I will be here to check it’s done next month… " etc etc… he’s fighting against dealer owners like the one you mentioned who are used to doing things “the Taiwanese way”… that just doesn’t cut it with big bikes and he has a zero tolerance policy to change that and it’s working… I’m not saying BMW are the bee’s knees and every other brand is crap, far from it

@ Mordeth
If you prefer a Honda, look at the Varadero. It’s much cheaper than the GS but it cannot be serviced that easily by yourself. If you really prefer a sporty touring bike with 600cc, look at CBF600.

The longer I follow your guys discuss the more I feel to just to dig a big deep hole and take my plan to get a big bike in Taiwan and put it into that and plant a tree on it or so, just to make sure I am not going on that idiodic fault. (or it makes me move back to Austria, even you can’t ride the bike most of the time without water wings and a swimm suit on…)

So ok, I still have the plan to get a big bike and I think the direction will be kind of supermoto/enduro thing (want to see a bit of the island too and as they tried to kill me here in the hills on Longtan already it can’t be much worse in the mountains…I hope…). So what and where is such stuff available here (Longtan/Taoyuan area…)? (If there are any price levels with it would be great) And I expect there are almost no used bikes in this category so that I can start to “throw away” and “fall down” with not with brand new toy.

@ mingshah
You got mail (PM). :wink:

Plasmatron has just written Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for Taiwan. Big bikes and the whole dealership and mechanic setup here are like a mini Taiwan Studies degree. Brilliant stuff. :notworthy:

…Just a pic to go with plasmatron’s fitting description…however, the name would need to be changed from Bob to “Xiao_____”… :smiley:

Well plasmatron it’s good to hear that things are slowly improving with the offcial dealers. My earlier point was that if the offcial dealers can’t fix things…then you might as well just find an alright mechanic (there are a few) and buy a reliable bike. If it breaks forget about trying to use the warranty and all the different levels of hassel that would ensue…and just get someone you already trust to fix it.

That’s funny Skylark. Actually, my mechanic buddy is called Monkey. Hmm… I wonder if there is a connection. Probably not, he’s a pretty decent mechanic.

Ohhh, looky looky what I found…a budget bike from Yamaha. It’s a single cylinder 650…that couldn’t be too hard to repair.

Yep, that’s the “rear” shock…on the side.

.