[quote=“shifty”]
By giving people an opportunity to escape the police check the police can minimize the actual work they have to do, less people through means less work and god forbid the paperwork if they actually catch somebody![/quote]
Not to mention the fact that if the cops did actually corral someone armed and/or violent, they might actually be in a dangerous situation themselves!
Of course they set up the way they do to allow real criminals to go about their business unmolested as usual. This is how it always seems to work in Taiwan. Stop all the office girls and housewives for ticketing and look the other way when the bad guys pass by.
You’re an “adult” and you see “kids” driving recklessly all the time. Do you do anything about it? Anything constructive at all?
hi shawn,
i am vary sorry for your loss,sue the one who responsible!don,t give up bro,even we do not know the outcome,at least you try to bring justice for your uncle.
those punks wouldn get away that easily if hit and run case like this.
You’re an “adult” and you see “kids” driving recklessly all the time. Do you do anything about it? Anything constructive at all?[/quote]
Occasionally. I have pretty much given up, mostly as being told that you drive like an idiot does not go down too well with the lads. Smacking an idiot upside the head as he runs a red and cuts you down at the crossing tends to get some agro in return. On the other hand, I have been applauded a few times by other riders for dressing down a ‘punk’ for acting like an arsehat. It has a little more effect, though, when you’re conducting the lecture from a bicycle alongside them moving at 40 km/h. Then you get a bit more respect, and they tend to move away or slow down.
But generally, what’s the lasting effect? Zip. And I have no illusions that I’m going to change the whole culture of bad driving by an occasional random outburst at the worst offenders.
But my comment to shawn is still appropriate. He certainly can blame them for their blatant disregard for others, just like he was to blame when he was younger.
shawn_c -
I would like to add my condolences and sympathies to those already offered.
SpringOnion -
A lovely remembrance. Mr. Nelson sounds like a fine gentleman who touched the hearts of those he met.
Was he? Not entirely.
Shawn_C,
From my family to yours we offer our heartfelt condolences.
Northcoast Surfer & Crew
springonion: thanks… I saw your message on his facebook account.
And thanks for the condolences from everyone - it is his mom, dad, brother and sister who need the most comfort, however.
I agree that it’s impossible to change an entire driving culture from the bottom up (even though it may feel great!) - it takes a top-down mission to have any effect. For example, why isn’t there a graduated licensing system? Why are the police so lax on the laws?
There’s so much evil here in Taiwan that I can’t even begin to describe it. For an expat who doesn’t speak much Chinese and is somewhat isolated from the local community, Taiwan seems like a jolly good place. However, Taiwan is truly a dark place; much darker than you can imagine.
Here is the Democracy Index: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_ … 08_ranking
1st = Sweden (Full Democracy)
7th = New Zealand (Full Democracy)
10th = Australia (Full Democracy)
11th = Canada (Full Democracy)
17th = Japan (Full Democracy)
18th = U.S.A. (Full Democracy)
21st = UK (Full Democracy)
33rd = Taiwan (Flawed Democracy)
136th = China (Authoritarian Regime)
167th = North Korea (Authoritarian Regime)
Now, even though Taiwan is quite high up on the list - there are so many things that money and influence can buy here that it can’t buy in other countries.
Why did I segue into this topic? Well, because usually in Taiwan, the rich and powerful can get away with things, whereas the average Joe is powerless. You can bet things would start to change around here if a powerful politician’s son was the one who got killed.
I used to think that people in Taiwan were used to the way everyone drove, and so didn’t let it anger them… but I think I’ve come to the realization that people don’t say anything because they’re afraid of the consequences (meeting the wrong person) - and that includes the police.
bob, please expand on your thoughts? We already know where urodacus stands on the issue… I am trying to decide what I think. But, I do truly believe that people can’t be trusted (even yourself), and you just have to take away the opportunity to do something evil from people and they’ll remain good people.
In terms of teenagers and vehicles - they’ll do some things at age 20, that at age 30, they’d never even consider.
But in terms of the average person… let’s take guns for example. If someone is always walking around with a gun (like some people in America), when they get angry, they might do something they’ll regret later. But, if that gun is never in the picture in the first place… some fists might be thrown, but it probably wouldn’t lead to an irreversible situation.
Sorry for your loss and hoping TW justice will work (for once )
We do know that TW Police controls are indeed a scam. Not trying to punish offenders, but just to ensure to the public that they are “out there” iff not busy by signing off their routine control sheets on every freaking corner of the streets (without controling anything obviously)
Nope, you can’t educate a bunch ot twats, but if you nail the one who was responsible taking the lead in diverting the police changing tracks, it “might” let the others think.
Another reason why I start doubting that TW is as cinvilized and developped as it wants to be be perceived to the outside world…
Hope you can burry your Uncle with the believe justice will preveal.
My last reply to this was a bit quick so I’ll take another go. I think you deserve a more considered response.
When something like this happens it is natural perhaps to focus anger on the people directly responsible. Unfortunatley that doesn’t do much to prevent further occurances from happening in the future. If you want to avoid this kind of thing you need to look at the situation from a broader perspective. Ask yourself, for example, if given what we know about adolescents whether or not it makes sense to provide them with motorcycles and the means to cheaply roar around for lack of anything better to do. Are the people who sell the motorcycles “responsible”? What about the people who pay for the advertisements portraying motorcycle use as being some grand form of sexy freedom? Are they responsible? Is the government responsible for subsidizing the price of gas? I’m annoyed by inconsiderate motorcyclists all the time but I’ve never given one a dressing down. Am I responsible? A little. The problem is that people want to avoid responsibility and shovel it on to the most obvious “target” when what they should be admitting is that, like it or not, we are all wrapped up in this sad little drama together and if we all shoulder a bit of the blame maybe we can help improve life rather than getting wrapped up in cycles of vengence.
Anyway, that’s my point of view. The kids that were involved in this are no doubt scared shitless right now. Guilty and confused out of their heads. They are probably asking themselves, secretly because they would be scared to ask it aloud, “Why in hell didn’t the police STOP us?” Given the the damage that this incident will have done, permanently, to these kids souls they would be quite correct in arguing that they are “victims” of parental, societal, and especially police negligence.
I hope your family finds peace at during this time Shawn.
That’s why I wouldn’t ever drive a scooter. If you had a crash in a car you’re at least protected by your seat belt (assuming you wore one) and the layer of steel that make up the car body. In a scooter nothing other than a helmet is protecting you. The way I see cops here is they just wear uniforms that looks like police but most of them couldn’t even deal with real bad guys. Perhaps the reason is people might have been afraid (you know the “right” people) of the martial law back in the day so people just expected the police to be lax so we can be viewed as a “democratic” country. Maybe it takes time for the democracy to mature. I asked some of my relative what the martial law was like he said that if you were a good law abiding citizen then no one will bother you but the penalties for recklessness or crimes are severe due to the fact that it’s martial law so people were more careful back then. Some old folk said that things were better during martial law because people behaved. Not that I will see this happening but they need to improve the way laws are enforced and train officers better to respond to various situations.
[quote=“ceevee369”]Sorry for your loss and hoping TW justice will work (for once )
We do know that TW Police controls are indeed a scam. Not trying to punish offenders, but just to ensure to the public that they are “out there” iff not busy by signing off their routine control sheets on every freaking corner of the streets (without controling anything obviously)
Nope, you can’t educate a bunch ot twats, but if you nail the one who was responsible taking the lead in diverting the police changing tracks, it “might” let the others think.
Another reason why I start doubting that TW is as cinvilized and developped as it wants to be be perceived to the outside world…
Hope you can burry your Uncle with the believe justice will preveal.[/quote]
I do truly hope justice will prevail. At the very least, I hope the safety of Taiwan’s streets can be improved without more people getting hurt.
And yes, I do see the police signing their “rounds” cards without even looking anywhere other than at that piece of paper. Is it human nature to be lazy? I think so.
I don’t doubt Taiwan is civilized and developed - I know it’s not. At the same time, however, as Taiwan Luthiers mentions; it might be due to the fact that things here changed so rapidly. Phases of development need to be had in order for a people as a whole to really mature in their way of thinking.
I also do hear old folks saying that Martial Law was good… a little extreme, though! I think it comes down to education (and the process of civilizing folk), as both Confucius and Mencius propounded - Xunzi, on the other hand, propounded laws and civil controls.
I agree that a car is much safer to be in in the event of a crash, but in the hands of irresponsible people, it’s even worse. Public transit is the answer.
Thank-you all again for the wishes, and I will let his immediate family know of all the kindness that is really out there.
Ever seen A Clockwork Orange?[/quote]
I haven’t, but I’ll make a point to check it out. Any profound truths in it?
My last reply was a bit quick so I’ll take another go. I think you deserve a more considered response.
When something like this happens it is natural perhaps to focus anger on the people directly responsible. Unfortunatley that doesn’t do much to prevent further occurances from happening in the future. If you want to avoid this kind of thing you need to look at the situation from a broader perspective. Ask yourself, for example, if given what we know about adolescents whether or not it makes sense to provide them with motorcycles and the means to cheaply roar around for lack of anything better to do. Are the people who sell the motorcycles “responsible”? What about the people who pay for the advertisements portraying motorcycle use as being some grand form of sexy freedom? Are they responsible? Is the government responsible for subsidizing the price of gas? I’m annoyed by inconsiderate motorcyclists all the time but I’ve never given one a dressing down. Am I responsible? A little. The problem is that people want to avoid responsibility and shovel it on to the most obvious “target” when what they should be admitting is that, like it or not, we are all wrapped up in this sad little drama together and if we all shoulder a bit of the blame maybe we can help improve life rather than getting wrapped up in cycles of vengence.
Anyway, that’s my point of view. The kids that were involved in this are no doubt scared shitless right now. Guilty and confused out of their heads. They are probably asking themselves, secretly because they would be scared to ask it aloud, “Why in hell didn’t the police STOP us?” Given the the damage that this incident will have done, permanently, to these kids souls they would be quite correct in arguing that they are “victims” of parental, societal, and especially police negligence.
Is there any way to put media pressure on the police for not doing their jobs and setting up a proper road block?
You know everyone here knows that things suck. I can’t count the number of time a Taiwanese parent told me how flawed the education system is, or how traffic regulation is a joke. I think the real problem is that most Taiwanese have a look the other way type of attitude. So if things suck people just suck up to it and take it thinking “well I gotta adapt to the environment and not expect the environment adapt to me” (I hear this countless times). I think this is the biggest reason why things do not improve. Thing is government won’t do anything (they have a really passive attitude towards anything, if no one says anything then they assume everything is ok) if no one speaks up. I mean if more and more people just call or write to government officials and tell them that they’re sick of the high traffic related death or other blatant disregard for anyone else they will do something, especially if it’s the “right” people demanding something. It shouldn’t take a chan shi ming to get the police to improve their ability to deal with violent criminals or death/serious injury to a key politician or their next of kin, but until people start speaking up things are going to stay the same. Here in Taiwan we have the right of assembly, we do not need to fear unjust arrest/executions when we protest because things are wrong. I suggest that we be thankful for the fact that we have these rights (those across the straight have no such rights, they are either silenced or jailed or worse for any kind of activism) and exercise them.
Taiwan Luthiers -
I agree completely with your comments and analysis.
One item however - your use of the word “we” in your post.
Are you a citizen here on the island?
I think its safe to say that the majority of posters here on Forumosa are not and thus do not share in the “rights” you mention here on the island.
If you are a citizen here, then by all means go forward with your protests.
Happy Easter to All!
Something weird is that the media, reporters sometimes are there in the scene area when the policemen are capturing some drug dealer, army dealer or some other criminals. That seems weird for me, because everything seems made up. They show the policemen breaking into the bad guys home, kicking the door and acting. The reporters are there at the same time, filming everything and the news tell the population that one more case was cracked by the local police.