Naturalization Citizenship/Immigration Reform Must Happen For Taiwan to Become the Hub of Asia

I’m all for the voting part. Fixing the discriminatory pension scheme though is crucial.


I would. I complain about things but I like it enough that it keeps me around. Let Taiwan play fair and see how many people stick around.

I don’t see that many Taiwanese leaving here to become immigrants elsewhere, maybe the filthy rich ones. The vast majority like living here and have no intentions of leaving. Or they go overseas to get their degree and then return to Taiwan . Even the ones that immigrate come back to Taiwan when they get old so it can’t be all that bad.

I want citizenship so that various banks and government agencies stop telling me that as a foreigner , I cannot apply for services that only a 身份證 holder can get. I had to go to the registration office HRO last week to apply for something, she filled out the application form then saw my ARC, made a call to Taipei, and came back and said sorry , only 民國 people. An ARC is essentially a useless document.

Locals can apply for services with their ID card on its own, places here demand my passport.

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A foreign friend was told that, as their bank only catered to big companies, he was not qualified to recieve their credit card. My pal nearly punched the 20 year od snot nosed cubicle dweller.

Seriously, I can understand older folk not “getting” us foreigners. But IMHO the younger, well travelled, stuck here because they cannot get out from under Mama’s skirt kids are the worst. Not the kids that are out there, even pushing a trolley cart, as long as it is their cart. I mean the ones who cannot afford a house/get married unless Mom and Pops give them the money to do so. Those are the ones that mock your accent and make fun of you and really become a pain in the derriere in the workplace. But these kids with no manners whatsoever, whose insurance is also paid by their parents, those are the real burden. If high enough on the totem pole, they will hold back innovation. They do not want to open up or change/take risks. And they are the most xenophobic. One wonders why (sarcasm).

You can say all you want about foreigners but the numbers do not lie: we reproduce more. Mixed couples have more children. As to being afraid of being overerun by people: pleeze. We got plenty of space, resources, etc. It is just that everyone wants to work in Xinyi, live in Daan.

The conomy is in the tank -mostly by their own making, disenbowled on behalf of the Great Panda-, but if we let the good people do what they know best, Taiwan still has a very agile internal business system and great infraestructure. It could still overcome.


Might want to update the caption for the photo in that article. The last time I looked, Tom Bradly International terminal was at the Los Angeles Airport, not Taipei :smiley:

Like I said there are some, mostly people who’ve been here for years or even decades, but it won’t attract foreign talents. That’s why I said it’s a human rights issue, not a talent-attracting one.

[quote=“dan2006, post:22, topic:157117”]
I don’t see that many Taiwanese leaving here to become immigrants elsewhere, maybe the filthy rich ones. The vast majority like living here and have no intentions of leaving. Or they go overseas to get their degree and then return to Taiwan . Even the ones that immigrate come back to Taiwan when they get old so it can’t be all that bad. [/quote]
There aren’t that many people leaving to become immigrants, but there are a lot who leave to work elsewhere.

The vast majority would like to leave but have no means to. There’s report on people who have intention to move somewhere else and the number is always like 60-80% every year. Lots of people have too many burdens. Those who left then come back only do so because they can’t get an offer in the countries where they got their degrees or because they have an unusually strong sense of duty. Usually more of the former.

And old ones probably come back because Medicare is cheaper for elderlies here and the wait list to get knee surgeries is shorter lol.

Are you sure that’s true? I’ve heard that Taiwan doesn’t allow that…

I’m also going to apply soon.

Ha! I actually wrote to Janelle, the woman featured in that photo, to see if she could get that fixed.


Let’s not forget PR’s may soon be included in the “new” pension system. (Also, some countries allow PR’s to vote, but I doubt that would fly here.)

4 posts were merged into an existing topic: From dual nationality

As a permanent resident who plans to retire here, I myself would certainly like citizenship–if that’s what’s required for pension benefits and voting rights. However, renouncing my US citizenship is unthinkable because I’m counting on receiving US Social Security in the next 13 years (Yeah, I know, after paying into it for decades, Social Security now seems like a pipe dream, but that’s for another discussion).

But I do agree: I don’t think much “foreign talent” can be attracted if the wages and other conditions you mentioned continue as at present.

We fixed it a while back

I have to say, this kind of sentiment rubs me the wrong way…“Oh, sure, it’s fine for them, those brown people from horrid little backward countries, to give up their citizenship, but surely they can’t ask White People from Advanced Countries that are Oh so much better than Taiwan to do so! We couldn’t possibly!”

It’s fine to want to change the policy you see as unfair, but you’re still talking about people’s native lands, and it probably isn’t the most convincing argument to help Taiwanese people understand how much you identify with Taiwan.

Sorry, I didn’t say anything about “brown” people at all.

However it is a fact that the ones that naturalize are almost without exception married to local Taiwanese men, and the standard of living in Taiwan is much higher generally speaking than those countries. Therefore they are trading up so to speak. They are willing to naturalize as it benefits them in terms of getting access to services, applying for things, and even travel.

My fight against this nonsense rule is for all though, not just us “privileged” whities
Social justice warriors not needed on this thread.

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So, by that argument, you would be trading down? And I don’t know what a social justice warrior is, but it doesn’t sound like a bad thing to be.

Willingly, interestingly enough

I’m with Poagoa–the “trading down” argument has its limits when it comes to arguing for changes to the citizenship laws. The bigger issue for me is the glaring inconsistency between citizens from birth (who can collect as many passports as their hearts desire) and naturalized citizens (who are railroaded–apparently more softly now–into renunciation). The cat’s out of the bag with the former (and so many of Taiwan’s elite and even lawmakers are caught up in it), so that’s not going to change. So the logical thing is to make things fair for naturalized citizens–no renunciation!


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The argument ‘far is fair’ has been used to try and get rid of the renunciation law for years.

While it’s still going to get some support maybe sheer desperation from Taiwan’s political and economic elite where they realize they have to radically change some policies will finally get us over the line.
Taiwan is facing major political headwind from China and also breakdown of TPP and Japan trade negotiations its in a hard place.

We should notice there are 600,000 migrant workers in Taiwan and not two shits are given about their working conditions.

Yes indeed, there are many challenges. With the TPP though: good riddance.

With migrant workers: one point of discrimination among many is that lack of a path to permanent residency and open work rights. It’s simply a new form of indenture.