Nearly 53 percent of Israeli Arabs are proud to be Israelis

Politics International Politics
1

I just ran across this little-known-fact today. And, with all the negative news that seems to get air-time in this forum, I thought that it’d be good to talk a bit about some of what is great about Israel.

Here’s the article from Israel Today Magazine:

[quote=“Israel Today Magazine”]Most Arabs proud to be Israeli

Thursday, February 02, 2012 | Ryan Jones

If one were to listen only to the mainstream media and Israel’s many antagonists, one would be led to believe that the Jewish state is a horrible and oppressive place for Arabs to live, and that said Arabs desire nothing more than to replace Israel with their own “Palestinian” state.

But if one bothers to listen to those Arabs themselves (something the media often does its best no avoid), a completely different picture emerges.

According to the Democracy Index 2011 survey conducted recently by the Israel Democracy Institute, nearly 53 percent of Israeli Arabs are “proud to be Israelis.”

Only 28.3 percent responded that they are “not at all proud” to be Israelis.

Those figures would seem a stark contrast to all those criticisms about Israel being an apartheid state that discriminates against and oppresses its Arab population.

Alexander Yakobson, an op-ed contributor to left-wing Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, said he asked a group of British journalists whether or not 45 percent (the percentage of Arabs who said they were proud to be Israel in the year Yakobson made his inquiry) of Catholics in Northern Ireland would be ready to say they are “proud to be British.”

Yakobson recounted that one of the journalists told him: “I do not believe that 45 Catholics in Northern Ireland are willing to say it, let alone 45 percent.”

Perhaps even more surprising was that in the 2011 Democracy Index a 45 percent plurality of Israeli Arabs believe it to be “important or very important” to increase Israel’s military might. Only 29 percent felt the opposite. That is interesting coming from a population that is supposedly a victim of Israel’s “occupation army.”

Unfortunately, the only Israeli Arabs who receive any press coverage are those who attack the Jewish state with accusations of human rights abuses.[/quote]

Very, very cool, if I say so myself.

(And, I DID say so on Israel Outlook.)

2

Makes sense to me. Druze units in the IDF are tough and loyal and Israeli Arabs have a very high standard of living indeed compared with their neighbours. A Druze even served as Acting President of Israel when Katsav was on trial.

3

They’re not idiots. They clearly see what it’s like to live in any other Arab country or the Palestinian states and have the good sense to know they got it better. I’m more interested in the views of the other 47%.

4

It’s not those token Arabs who are at issue but rather those five million stateless Arab men, women and children Israel’s Stone Age theocracy has trapped inside its – and America’s – moral blind spot.

5

Israel’s government is secular and always has been, and the current position of the Arabs in the occupied territories is a product of the completely secular political decisions made by the governments of Israel, Syria, Jordan, Iran, and other Arab countries. Even to speak of this is as anything to do with religion, is a gross misrepresentation of the facts and an easy way to dismiss the fate of millions of de facto refugees as a silly little theological squabble.

6

Five million refugees? Ok. I want to know when the twelve million germans who also started and lost wars who were expelled from central and eastern europe and their 70 to 100 million descendants will be given automatic right of return and the tens of millions of greeks and hell jews themselves? When?

7

Five million?

Where did you get THAT figure?

There were something between 472,000 and 650,000 Arab refugees (there is some disagreement within the UN figures) that fled what became the State of Israel. There were 820,000 Jews expelled from Arab countries during the same time period.

Those Jews had their lands and property and possessions confiscated from them. Should we get the accountants out and try to figure out who owes who? I have a sneaky suspicion that the cost to the Jews will be accounted as far, far higher.

So, we probably shouldn’t talk about the refugee problem - unless you really, really need to.

However, what we SHOULD talk about is how good Israel has been to the Arab residents of Israel. THAT is something worth celebrating. Instead of persecuting their Arab minority (as most nations normally do), the Jewish majority has accepted Arabs as their equals.

That is a great tribute to the kind of society that is Israel.

8

[quote=“Got To Be Kidding”]I just ran across this little-known-fact today.

[quote=“Israel Today Magazine”] According to the Democracy Index 2011 survey conducted recently by the Israel Democracy Institute, nearly 53 percent of Israeli Arabs are “proud to be Israelis.”

Those figures would seem a stark contrast to all those criticisms about Israel being an apartheid state that discriminates against and oppresses its Arab population.[/quote]

Very, very cool, if I say so myself.

(And, I DID say so on Israel Outlook.)[/quote]

Could you link me to the actual survey coz I would like to know more about it. I did find an extensive survey called Democracy Index, 2011, but I am not sure if it’s the one you are referring to.
idi.org.il/events1/Events_Th … nglish.pdf
Their survey polled 1200, which is solid, but was drawn from a plurality of racial and religious groups, including 15% Arab-Israelis. What I am not sure of is whether it’s a completely different survey you are talking about, or is it this survey but just a sample group of 15% of 1200 (180 – not statistically valid), or were those percentages instead reflective of the response of the total plurality of the sample group, inlcuding the 85% non-Arabs?

9

Well the Brits ruled Palestine during the time and gave the land to the Jews, take it up with the British government then.

10

A peek inside the moral blind spot reveals these interesting facts:

The Israeli controlled West Bank and Gaza have some of the fastest growing populations on earth so the following estimates are likely on the low side at this point:

Est. Arab population of West Bank: 2.3 million

Est. Arab population of Gaza: 1.7 million

East Jerusalem Arab population: 250,000+

These 4.25+ million people comprise the largest stateless group of people on earth.

11

[quote=“Winston Smith”]A peek inside the moral blind spot reveals these interesting facts:

The Israeli controlled West Bank and Gaza have some of the fastest growing populations on earth so the following estimates are likely on the low side at this point:

Est. Arab population of West Bank: 2.3 million

Est. Arab population of Gaza: 1.7 million

East Jerusalem Arab population: 250,000+

These 4.25+ million people comprise the largest stateless group of people on earth.[/quote]

This is very true, but not germane to our topic.

It is a fact that a large portion of the Arab minority in Israel has transcended the Middle East conflict and expressed pride in being Israeli - an attitude that I have personally encountered among Arabs. This is an extremely positive development and gives us hope for peace in the Middle East.

It means that the Israelis have the kind of society that can live in peace with her neighbors. And, it also means that Arab culture can also live side-by-side in (or even intertwined with) a Jewish culture - again, something that I have personal experience with and a fact that should give us hope for peace in the Middle East

Now, if we want to fold in your somewhat off-topic point into our discussion, I could put it this way:

Our challenge is to find a way for Palestinians to be able to coexist with Israel, in the same way that Arab Israelis coexist with Jewish Israelis and vice versa. By the very nature of the fact that Israel has demonstrated an ability to treat her minorities with respect and even deference, Israel shows that she is ready to do her part in the realm of coexistence.

Surely, this is a positive thing, right?

12

Calling Israel a theocracy may be the most ignorant thing I have read about Israel in my life.

The original Zionists were actually ANTI religion-especially Judaism. Many of them were communists (what do you think a Kibbutz is? Its a communist commune).

13

Calling Israel a theocracy may be the most ignorant thing I have read about Israel in my life.

The original Zionists were actually ANTI religion-especially Judaism. Many of them were communists (what do you think a Kibbutz is? Its a communist commune).[/quote]

Tell that to the five million human beings living under Eretz Israel’s boot in the land of their birth because they’re the wrong religion.

14

[quote=“Winston Smith”]

Tell that to the five million human beings living under Eretz Israel’s boot in the land of their birth because they’re the wrong religion.[/quote]

Huh?

We just demonstrated that there ISN’T a BOOT that they have to live under.

The majority of Israeli Arabs are proud to be Israeli. True, it’s not a huge majority, but it does indicate that there’s no BOOT that Israeli Arabs have to live under.

And, if the Palestinians would agree to peace and stop attacking Israel, there wouldn’t be a boot over Palestinians.

Um… wait a second… Palestinians are under control of the Palestinian Authority.

Which BOOT are you talking about?

15

Calling Israel a theocracy may be the most ignorant thing I have read about Israel in my life.

The original Zionists were actually ANTI religion-especially Judaism. Many of them were communists (what do you think a Kibbutz is? Its a communist commune).[/quote]

Tell that to the five million human beings living under Eretz Israel’s boot in the land of their birth because they’re the wrong religion.[/quote]

See, this is where you are wrong and completely misunderstand the issue!!

It has nothing to do with religion, the people who created the state of Israel were not Jews in ANY religious sense. Their Jewish identity was merely cultural/racial, not religious. Did you know that modern Israeli Hebrew is spoken COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (accent and pronunciation) than the Hebrew those the very founders of Israel had been taught to speak in Europe? Do you know WHY (now that you this fact)? There are 2 main reasons: 1. So that the religious Jews (who were there and would inevitably flock from Europe) would not be comfortable speaking it! 2. SO IT WOULD SOUND CLOSER TO ARABIC!!!

Did you also know that the early Zionists who petitioned the UN for Statehood back in the 1940’s did not want Jerusalem as Israel’s sole capital (if this was about religion they would have!) but wanted Jerusalem to be an international city governed by the UN so it would remain open and free for Muslims, Christians and Jews!

it is fine by me if you hate Israel, Zionism, the Palestinian’s situation…but do not misinterpret the issue. Those Arab Israelis are also Muslims, the Druze are their own religion which is not Judaism (or Islam). The issue is not about them being “the wrong religion” as you say, but being the wrong RACE if anything. (now we can debate what race is, if Jews are a race, yadda yadda…but from a Zionist standpoint that IS the issue).

But if you keep thinking it is about religion you are doing no one (including yourself) a service, rather you are spouting false information that only makes the real issues even cloudier.

16

I hate injustice, disdain intellectual dishonesty and have no time for logical fallacies. Bye.

17

[quote=“Got To Be Kidding”]
It is a fact that a large portion of the Arab minority in Israel has transcended the Middle East conflict and expressed pride in being Israeli [/quote]

You keep saying it’s a fact, but I’m sorry to say, without evidence, it’s just an opinion. I don’t say i necessarily disagree with your opinion, but you can’t poll 180 people (heavily skewed towards the wealthy and well-educated btw) and draw conclusions from that about all Arab-Israelis and then start claiming that these conclusions are now cold, hard facts.

If you were indeed referring to a different poll, then as i asked before, please post the link, I’d be interested to learn more, but there’s nothing on the Democracy Index 2011 one that you originally mentioned that supports your claim. That doesn’t mean that your opinion is therefore wrong, it could be right, but it’s definitely not a fact (in its present presentation), and as such, not a sound foundation to keep building an argument upon.

18

WS, it’s great that you feel that way.

The question is where do injustice, intellectual dishonesty and logical fallacy live?

19

[quote=“dulan drift”][quote=“Got To Be Kidding”]
It is a fact that a large portion of the Arab minority in Israel has transcended the Middle East conflict and expressed pride in being Israeli [/quote]

You keep saying it’s a fact, but I’m sorry to say, without evidence, it’s just an opinion. I don’t say i necessarily disagree with your opinion, but you can’t poll 180 people (heavily skewed towards the wealthy and well-educated btw) and draw conclusions from that about all Arab-Israelis and then start claiming that these conclusions are now cold, hard facts.

If you were indeed referring to a different poll, then as i asked before, please post the link, I’d be interested to learn more, but there’s nothing on the Democracy Index 2011 one that you originally mentioned that supports your claim. That doesn’t mean that your opinion is therefore wrong, it could be right, but it’s definitely not a fact (in its present presentation), and as such, not a sound foundation to keep building an argument upon.[/quote]

Firstly, what is your evidence that the Arab sample was heavily skewed towards the wealthy and well-educated?

The data in the appendix of the document do not bear that out.

I’m still looking for the statistical margin of error in the study, so I cannot comment on your point about ‘representative sample’. A well constructed study doesn’t require a huge sample. However, it does require a representative sample.

Also, the IDI is a respected institute. To claim that they somehow didn’t construct their study correctly is… well, a little hard to accept.

EDIT: I see the sampling error: it’s 2.8% (page 28)

20

The ignorance of this statement is impressive. Could you provide whatever evidence you think there is to substantiate it?

[quote=“Winston Smith”]
I hate injustice, disdain intellectual dishonesty and have no time for logical fallacies. Bye.[/quote]

What you have written indicates otherwise. You have failed to present a single piece of evidence for your claims, you’ve paid no attention to evidence supplied to you, and you’re throwing insults. Confuzius is absolutely correct. The Zionists were (from their very beginning in the 19th century), a secular movement which embraced both Marxist and communist ideals (hence the kibbutz), rejected religion (to the extent of identifying Jerusalem as an international city and completely neglecting Israel’s archaeological wealth, happily digging it up and throwing it away), and founded an entirely secular state. Your opinion of the history is completely bereft of factual basis.