Neocon Imperialism, 9/11, & After-Attacks

Oh fuck the semantics. It is so jejeune.

Fine, call it war on Islamofascist terrorists, terrorism, terror acts etc. etc. if you like.

Hmmm nice quote from Carter’s Secretary of Defense. I guess it is kind of ironic that he is weighing in on the subject as he was instrumental in starting the whole problem as it now exists. After all, it was the indecisive vacillating incompetence of the Carter regime that delivered the radicalized Iran that we are facing today.

As for your other paranoid ramblings… please explain how the Bush NeoCon team will now engineer all of these loss of rights? I mean we do not even control Congress anymore and the last time I checked the 2008 elections were right on schedule. Got any suggestions for how we can derail this process? I am all ears… And that damned Supreme Court just voted against us on the Clean Air Act. For all our evil Machiavellian machinations, we do not seem to be able to control much of anything these days. Ironic given that we are all powerful. Pathetic little twerp.

Speaking of pathetic little twerps:

"Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday that it was pointless for Democrats to pursue Iraq spending measures that set a timeline for leaving Iraq that President Bush would veto. . . . Speaking at a fund-raiser in Birmingham, Ala., for Senator Jeff Sessions, Mr. Cheney said the president was determined to reject any legislation establishing such a timeline. . . . "

Good to know that. Incredible. You would think that the Democrats had learned their lesson over Vietnam.

Omigod.

Fred S. used the word jejeune in a blog/forum.

OH NO, YOU DID NOT. Someone hand him an infectados, make him drink some King Cobra, and bring him back down from his heights of delusional grandeur.

We don’t need no stinkin’ haute here.

So running away from straight-on questions and calling someone a twerp is your way of garnishing respect for ‘your’ terror propaganda spewage?

Your empty Islamofascism lies have already snapped back in your face, rejecting the very ‘paranoid ramblings’ you so enthusiastically cherish.

[quote=“in the thread ‘Re: Iraq: definitely not according to plan’ I”]THE BIG LIE ABOUT ‘ISLAMIC FASCISM’

This ugly term was coined - as was the other hugely successful propaganda term, ‘terrorism’ – to dehumanize and demonize opponents and deny them any rational political motivation, hence removing any need to deal with their grievances and demands.

Claims by fevered neoconservatives that Muslim radicals plan to somehow impose a worldwide Islamic caliphate are lurid fantasies worthy of Dr. Fu Manchu and yet another example of the big lie technique that worked so well over Iraq.[/quote]

Why was a proven liar and a wanted man appointed by the White House to chair the 9/11 Commission, although he had to step down because of hidden clients named bin Laden?

How does one argue that the Nuremberg Tribunal Charters should NOT apply to the Bush/Cheney/Rove/PNAC Neocon horde of imperialists?

Why do you believe the Neocon Bush/Cheney Administration has served America well in protecting the US Constitution?

Start by picking just one of these questions to wrap your mouth around and lets consider your position.

Because we are out to get people like you. That is why we chose a KNOWN liar for the position. We don’t want you to find out about our evil machinations until it is too late and we have complete control. First, however, we must get the Senate and House back and then we have to win the 2008 presidential election and then we have to silence brave voices of dissent such as your own and then we will finally be in a position to get what we want… complete world domination… but how and why you have proven to be so resourceful, beating us at our own game. Ah. You are just too clever and smart. You see the things that others do not. You, a mere individual, are blocking our plans to dominate the world. Despite having billions, trillions of dollars. Despite controlling levers of power and the media. Despite all of this, you have flummoxed us, destroyed our plans by making them known. You are not just a mere individual, you are a superman, a man of incredible force and intellect. I for one realize that I am beat and am going to repent of my evil ways. You, you have just been too strong for me. I have lost. I hang my head in shame.

Indeed? And you wonder why I tease you about being a valley girl?

:laughing:

OH YES, I DID.

What’s that?

Don’t know what that is either…

Why delusional?

You think that the conversations and intellectual heft of the participants here should remain low? No reason to raise the bar? or pass it for that matter!

Ah, so, but Democrats aren’t the only ones who forgot the lessons of Vietnam:

" . . . One of the essential texts on counterinsurgency was written in 1964 by David Galula, a lieutenant colonel in the French army who was born in Tunisia, witnessed guerrilla warfare on three continents and died in 1967.

When the United States went into Iraq, his book, “Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice,” was almost unknown within the military, which is one reason it is possible to open Galula’s text almost at random and find principles of counterinsurgency that the American effort failed to heed.

Galula warned specifically against the kind of large-scale conventional operations the United States repeatedly launched with brigades and battalions, even if they held out the allure of short-term gains in intelligence. He insisted that firepower must be viewed very differently than in regular war.

“A soldier fired upon in conventional war who does not fire back with every available weapon would be guilty of a dereliction of his duty,” he wrote, adding that “the reverse would be the case in counterinsurgency warfare, where the rule is to apply the minimum of fire.”

The U.S. military took a different approach in Iraq. It wasn’t indiscriminate in its use of firepower, but it tended to look upon it as good, especially during the big counteroffensive in the fall of 2003, and in the two battles in Fallujah the following year.

One reason for that different approach was the muddled strategy of U.S. commanders in Iraq. As civil affairs officers found to their dismay, Army leaders tended to see the Iraqi people as the playing field on which a contest was played against insurgents. In Galula’s view, the people are the prize.

“The population . . . becomes the objective for the counterinsurgent as it was for his enemy,” he wrote.

From that observation flows an entirely different way of dealing with civilians in the midst of a guerrilla war. “Since antagonizing the population will not help, it is imperative that hardships for it and rash actions on the part of the forces be kept to a minimum,” Galula wrote.

Cumulatively, the American ignorance of long-held precepts of counterinsurgency warfare impeded the U.S. military during 2003 and part of 2004. Combined with a personnel policy that pulled out all the seasoned forces early in 2004 and replaced them with green troops, it isn’t surprising that the U.S. effort often resembled that of Sisyphus, the king in Greek legend who was condemned to perpetually roll a boulder up a hill, only to have it roll back down as he neared the top.

Again and again, in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006, U.S. forces launched major new operations to assert and reassert control in Fallujah, in Ramadi, in Samarra, in Mosul.

Scholars are virtually unanimous in their judgment that conventional forces often lose unconventional wars because they lack a conceptual understanding of the war they are fighting,” Lt. Col. Matthew Moten, chief of military history at West Point, would comment in 2004.

When Maj. Gregory Peterson studied a few months later at Fort Leavenworth’s School of Advanced Military Studies, an elite course that trains military planners and strategists, he found the U.S. experience in Iraq in 2003-2004 remarkably similar to the French war in Algeria in the 1950s. Both involved Western powers exercising sovereignty in Arab states, both powers were opposed by insurgencies contesting that sovereignty, and both wars were controversial back home.

Most significant for Peterson’s analysis, he found both the French and U.S. militaries woefully unprepared for the task at hand. “Currently, the U.S. military does not have a viable counterinsurgency doctrine, understood by all soldiers, or taught at service schools,” he concluded."

Indeed? And you wonder why I tease you about being a valley girl?

:laughing:

OH YES, I DID.

What’s that?

Don’t know what that is either…

Why delusional?

You think that the conversations and intellectual heft of the participants here should remain low? No reason to raise the bar? or pass it for that matter![/quote]

Perhaps since you didn’t get my joke, I don’t really need to worry about your intellectual heft.

Exactly.

And spookster, since Rumsfeld was againt sending 500,000 troops, I guess then you would agree with his assessment that we needed to keep a smaller footprint since this was not going to be a conventional war? Keeping the footprint small was perhaps a wise idea?

Exactly.

And spookster, since Rumsfeld was againt sending 500,000 troops, I guess then you would agree with his assessment that we needed to keep a smaller footprint since this was not going to be a conventional war? Keeping the footprint small was perhaps a wise idea?[/quote]

“No objective force level guarantees victory for either side. It is frequently stated that a 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 combatant ratio of counterinsurgents to insurgents is necessary for counterinsurgency victory. . . Of necessity, however, counterinsurgency is manpower intensive because of the requirements to maintain widespread order and security.”
1-11 Army Counterinsurgency Manual

Sounds like around 500K troops to me. Do you think Rumpot ever got around to reading anything on counterinsurgency before he was put in charge?

Oh damn. You got me on that one. Worth a try though, eh?

You’re still my superior by several orders of magnitude. Occasionally I get lucky and am able to make a counterpoint or two that survive your withering intellectual counteroffenses.

Have a good weekend, Fred.

And when you remove the tongue in cheek sarcasm, you’ll find yourself breathing easier. Only you will know when exactly you become a patriot willing to stand up for 9/11 truth. If popularity concerns you, sign in with a new alias. But when mainstream media headlines the 9/11 Commission report as a A 571-Page Lie, you will be able to say, “As I’ve said before… 9/11 was an Inside Job!” The WoT propaganda you once clung to will actually become the tools you’ll use to wake up others.

I’m sure these questions will follow and energize you everywhere, and when you are ready to suggest new zingers of reality, we’ll offer you appause, not criticism.

[quote=“I”][b]
Why was a proven liar and a wanted man appointed by the White House to chair the 9/11 Commission, although he had to step down because of hidden clients named bin Laden?

How does one argue that the Nuremberg Tribunal Charters should NOT apply to the Bush/Cheney/Rove/PNAC Neocon horde of imperialists?

Why do you believe the Neocon Bush/Cheney Administration has served America well in protecting the US Constitution?
[/b][/quote]

BTW, with how many of your followers will you share the Five Reasons To Deny 911 Was An Inside Job? (http://www.forumosa.com/p/?deny911)

“flummoxed” - care to describe the associated feeling? Something like bewildered? Or violated? I doubt the thesaurus beside your monitor will replace the betrayal you will feel when you swallow any FLAB/SLOB remains and become the man of integrity your mama hoped you could be.

What thread are you reading?[quote=“fred smith”]…as he was instrumental in starting the whole problem as it now exists. After all, it was the indecisive vacillating incompetence of the Carter regime that delivered the radicalized Iran that we are facing today.[/quote]
It will be difficult at first, but you really to let go of these "blame-Carter’ remarks. When you develop a reputation of truthfulness, these delusional comments will become your target, not your platform.

[quote=“in the ‘The coming war with Iran?’ thread I”]While I’m no Carter fan, doesn’t history actually “trace” back to Dwight Eisenhower sending the CIA into Iran and overthrowing the democratically elected Iranian government at the behest of British Petroleum?

More at National Security Archive > The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup, 1953

Wiki on Operation Ajax[quote]After the election of General Dwight Eisenhower to President, the British successfully crafted a Communist scare to convince the American government to join them in overthrowing the democratically chosen Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadeq, and re-establish British control of Iranian oil profits.

Operation Ajax was the first time the Central Intelligence Agency was involved in a plot to overthrow a democratically-elected government. The success of this operation, and its relatively low cost, encouraged the CIA to successfully carry out a similar operation in Guatemala a year later.[/quote]
50 Years After the CIA’s First Overthrow of a Democratically Elected Foreign Government We Take a Look at the 1953 US Backed Coup in Iran (Monday, August 25th, 2003)[/quote]
I commend you for pointing out a colorful term applicable to Bush’s first 9/11 attack reaction: [quote=“fred smith”]“indecisive vacillating incompetence”[/quote]

President Bush’s 9/11 Visit To Booker Elementary

Thank you fred smith!

"
Indecisive Vacillating Incompetence!
George W. Bush: Neocon’s 9/11 Vassal
"

And who would have thought that fred smith could actually contribute a productive comment to a thread titled “Neocon Imperialism, 9/11, & After-Attacks?”

In the last post I quoted a link that was valid at the time of its original posting. The link has since been changed to:

More at National Security Archive > The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup, 1953
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/index.html

CIA coup in Iran in 1953? Well, my little friend, why not tell us all about it. Who was responsible? How many people died? Who were the main parties? Why was the effort against Mossadegh implemented? What did he stand for? Who did he offend? How much of the involvement was orchestrated by the US (or even more important by the UK) and how much was by domestic forces? By the way, tread carefully, this is a subject of great interest to me and one where my family had a lot of personal involvement so stick to the facts if you don’t mind…

[quote=“fred smith”]this is a subject of great interest to me and one where my family had a lot of personal involvement [/quote]\

Your family herded goats in Persia?

BroonAzadi

[quote]Your family herded goats in Persia?

BroonAzadi[/quote]

No fucked them. If you are not careful, we may either do the same to you or execute a coup on your ass… Oh, but same difference I guess. You have been warned.

By the way, do you know where I could get a good saxophone player? Elvis was asking…

Lets examine Fred Smith’s mysterious reasons to believe Operation Ajax was not in fact an illegal yet profitable endeavor to overthrow the Iranian elected leadership in 1953… wait, we only find anti-Carter drool, not much to consider. The proGOPpy’s s.o.p. to shift blame and hope no one spots the truth doesn’t fly.[quote]By the way, tread carefully, this is a subject of great interest to me and one where my family had a lot of personal involvement so stick to the facts if you don’t mind…[/quote] Say we care about your blood boiling because history isn’t being re-written to your comfort, here’s your chance…

If you can limit the quasi-magnanimous rantings, would you like to share any thoughts on how Operation Ajax, and/or Operation Northwoods, and/or Operation Able Danger, and/or Operation Condor have propelled democracy, humanity or justice?

And by the way, these questions won’t just go away because you sarcastically accept your Neocon heros as liars and criminals, then try to frighten readers with laughable threats.[quote=“I”]
[b]How does one argue that the Nuremberg Tribunal Charters should NOT apply to the Bush/Cheney/Rove/PNAC Neocon horde of imperialists?

Why do you believe the Neocon Bush/Cheney Administration has served America well in protecting the US Constitution?[/b]
[/quote]

Oh, I am so sorry but the elected leadership of Iran had at that time already taken over power for itself in a most unconstitutional fashion, no? Would you care to describe the course of events from 1951 to 1953? What did Mossadeq do at the UN? What did he say to Truman? Was he willing to accept the US organized compromise with the British regarding the nationalization of its oil holdings? What were the precedents at the time? Did he warm up to the Tudeh, and if so for what purpose? When the Eisenhower administration came to power, what did Mossadeq do? Did he make statements that led the new Eisenhower administration to view him as an unreliable actor? What percentage of the Iranian population supported him in 1953? What major groups were against him? Was a US led coup possible without the widespread anti-Mossadeq sentiment? What percentage of the “blame” would you apportion to the US for the final coup?

Consider the above and respond to me when you have actually read something about it.

Is that what is happening here? Okay, then you will have no problem putting me in my place by addressing the above points. Right? I mean clearly I know nothing about the subject; I am just an anti-Carter bot sent here to disrupt your otherwise sterling arguments on the subject. Proceed. I await my humiliation at your hands with great humility.