New Southbound Policy and illegal immigration: nearly 2000 visa-free visitors unaccounted for


#41

I’m not sure if the link would work, but here is some statistics. In Chinese.

107年第2週內政統計通報_查處違法外來人口 - 內政部

https://www.moi.gov.tw/files/news_file/107年第2週內政統計通報_查處違法外來人口.pdf

5000~70000NTD, if the case is confirmed.


#42

Citizen arrest is a legal fiction anywhere.


#43

Well yeah … but making that decision comes with various costs, and I’m wondering what the tradeoffs are that go into that equation.

If you’re in a white-collar job in Vietnam, even a relatively modest one like a receptionist or PA, your salary will be quite similar (allowing for PPP adjustments) to a Taiwanese person. The difference isn’t large enough to justify - all by itself - dropping yourself into a very precarious situation as an illegal immigrant working in an illegal job. I get that a lot of the illegal immigrants are from out in the boondocks, but what’s the barrier that prevents legitimate (internal) migration to more well-paying prospects?

Most people (male or female) have their own personal line in the sand that they won’t cross, even if the economic penalty is substantial. And yet a fairly significant number of girls are deciding that banging fat Taiwanese men for money is a better life choice than being (say) a secretary.

Can’t help wondering if behind many of those girls there is at least one bone-idle family member who is more than happy to see younger sister/daughter go off to foreign parts to sell her foreign parts, thus ensuring that their own bone-idle lifestyle is comfortably funded and unsullied by the prospect of honest work (I doubt “starting a small business” is part of the equation). I’ve heard this is pretty common in Thailand and the Philippines.


#44

Let’s face it. All across Asia extra daughters are a burden on families and all across Asia those extra daughters have been sold into brothels since time immemorial. It used to be a very common practice in Taiwan and I’m sure in some families spare girls are still encouraged to go on the game to pay off Dad’s majong debts.


#45

Many Taiwanese do. My father had many factories and I worked in a few. Many SE Asian workers in the LED manufacturing sector. Willing to take min wage and long awful hours with factories running 24/7. And these are college grads from Taiwan who are losing jobs.


#46

I know far more sons who do nothing and can do nothing and live off parents money into 30-50s. Incompetent daughters have better options in life than incompetent sons imo in Asia.


#47

Even if they get paid a bit more in Taiwan the problem is that have nowhere to ‘go’ in Taiwan…no progression whereas in Vietnam they would be legal and not held back as much by Chinese .


#48

Probably their mates or relatives are here already so if they can get in they can get set up for a couple of years cash job. Some of them used to work in Taiwan but probably got reported or reached end of their contracts. Dead end though cos they are illegal.


#49

Some coming to join family and friends of the highest legal immigration group.


#50

Of my fellow country people, the most successful economically speaking - as per the grapevine- in Taiwan made her fortune selling her charms and not exactly on the streets. The second best did drug dealing.

Both were middle class kids. Both left this line on work on the Island, meaning they did not take it back with them when they returned to the old country. Please note that in the old country prostitution is legal and drug dealing, well, if you have good guanxi, run ins with the law are limited. Practice of prostitution and drug dealing is far more risky in Taiwan, in all senses.

So I conclude those illegal endeavors by SEA «tourists» are a short term high risk bet for high profits. This people coming on short term visas for illegal work are easily caught as they come and go in a pattern, just like drug mules. If the authorities wanted to stop them, it is not that hard. But do they? Both factory work and street walking will cross paths with local hei dao mafia. Those are the ones who have the last word.


#51

They are not encouraged but forced to do so. It is actually quite common in Taiwan for a wife or girlfriend to be kidnapped or threatened with bodily harm for herself, her man or her family, and set to work in special full service KTVs, jiu tien, or motel, owned by mafia of course, in order to work off the debt of her man.


#52

quite common? I’ve never heard of anyone this actually happened to outside of watching a movie. I’m sure it has happened but I feel sometimes people make something more than what it is in Taiwan like it’s something that’s wayyyy disproportionately happening here.


#53

Eh let me rephrase: in gambling circles, women are also recruited to pay off men’s debts. So it is SOP procedure under those circumstances. In those specific cases. Of which I have witnessed one and heard of 4.

TBH the most common scenario is people in debt with underground loan sharks, who then must leave the country/ change their names/flee for their lives when they cannot pay. There are consequences for their families but being shanghaided into street work is only one of the «options».

Bottom line is they get their money one way or the other.


#54

The 152 that ran immediately away from their tour group in Kaohsiung includes 102 men and 50 women.


#55

College grads want to work in factories? Also, I’m talking about the white expats complaining.


#56

There are many kinds, some require a lot more knowledge. Factories aren’t all like manual labor stuff.


#57

SEems the poh poh are actively chasing them down.


#58

And this is the argument used by locals to stir hate towards the SEA workers while at the same time keep their own people down by not paying decent, livable salaries. It is the same argument the head of Taida used when he scolded NTU graduates for wanting more than 20k salaries. Blame the victim.

Immigrants supposedly fill job slots not wanted by locals…because they pay below livable level. The question is not why locals, with or without college education, do not take those jobs. Some do not want, most cannot survive on those numbers, some won’t qualify as per training or availability. As you say, factories run 24/7, and SEA workers come unattached. They do not have families here to cook for, children to help with homework, elderly parents to feed, etc. The foreign workers come here to perform those tasks for other people, but not on top of working 12 hours a day or more in a factory- one hopes, though I know of a couple of people who take their kids to the factory floor because they can’t afford to pay daycare on a factory salary.

One wonders what the problem with the factories is when they rely so heavily on lowest cost workers…enforcing those low costs through mafia means like snakeheads smuggling people…Or tricking people, like the thousands of college students who were cheated into receiving an education, and instead became pawns for low cost manufacture.

One also wonders why the SEA students were targeted. Yes, the students from Latin American and African diplomatic relations nations have other options here - teaching English anyone?- in terms of illegal jobs if they wanted, but they have not been coerced and loaded like day laborers, sneaking through the night.

I think it is all related. You already have in Taiwan a network of mafia and factory owners, that move the workers as needed. One wishes the missing tourists were helping small farmers, but most are loaded in cars towards the factories. It is staged from top bottom.

Blaming the victims does not solve the issue as long as the network is on.

Now tell me the factories cannot pay decent salaries because they pay taxes. Tell me they have too many socialist obligations to fulfill, like NHI or pensions. If they are so connected, I do not think they pay taxes or workers pensions or NHI. These are the same factories that in the 90s just took off to China, with their worker’s pension funds, leaving behind only debts.


#59

Who is the victim here?

When you increase the labor market with the amount of supplies of workers without a change of demand, it decrease wages. It’s basic economics 101. Why is this a surprise or even debatable?

The ones missing probably are not the ones I’m talking about working in competition with the lowest earners in Taiwan. But to pretend many Taiwanese aren’t in competition with SE asian workers is a lie.

What argument did I say that brings up hate?

Believe it or not there are skilled positions in many factories and many factories that require skills and knowledge and would fall into more of at least semi skilled labor. Not all factories are the slave wage sweat shops of unskilled labor. There are many SE asians who do have degrees and have work experience already who would immigrate to take positions over new graduates in Taiwan who have no experience or less.


#60

The issue here is blaming the SEA for the low wages. You say too many workers lower the wages, but the factory owners argument is that they do not have enough local workers, so they need imports. That is the victim blaming I am talking about.

You are saying then that because we have too many SEA workers that is Why the salaries are low. Again, that is victim blaming as the salaries are already dirt low.

Remember the workers will not see a dime for years. At least the first year their earnings will not go into their pocket, but, whether they are working legally or illegally, the money goes to the intermediary/snakehead/mafia. Same difference. So tell me again this is fair competition in a free market.

Lowest earners in Taiwan cannot survive on low factory jobs. If they are at that level, they can barely hold occasional jobs, temporary jobs.

You say that college degree SEA workers coming here compete with Taiwanese college graduates. Interestingly, the Taiwanese are going to SEA in search of better salaries. So there is no competition is with the same degree, one gets better salary…abroad. Again, the problem is that salaries in Taiwan are not competitive and factory owners hire SEA folk because they pay less to them than they would a local.