New Southbound Policy and illegal immigration: nearly 2000 visa-free visitors unaccounted for


#61

No i am not. I simply explained a observable economic theory of wages in a labor market.

I just said an economic theory and some SE workers come compete in job markets Taiwanese would take when asked.

And you’re whole presumption is some factory are slimey so they must all be is not true.


#62

Andrew, that a significant number of factories is using illegal workers, not just SEA workers, and tgat they get away with it with a slap on the wrist, tell me the problem is really stinky.


#63

I haven’t once talked about those. You are. Read exactly i wrote.


#64

So some of these fake tourists are running away from the group to work as prostitures on their own volition


#65

There must be a big demand for (cheap) illegal workers here given these event cases.


#66

Why is there not a change in aggregate demand ?


#67

I totally agree with you Andrew. I’m a french expat living in Hualien, here Aborigines are especially hit hard by social dumping consisting of illegally or legally exploiting migrant workers willing to work for peanuts. For instance the normal and acceptable rate of pay for one day of brush clearing work is 1500 to 2000 NTD. But guess what! Vietnamese workers are willing to do the same job for 800 NTD! Why? Because in Vietnam the average monthly wage is about 4500 NTD!!! So 800 NTD is worth 4 days of work in Vietnam!
It’s not that Taiwanese aren’t willing to work hard, it’s just they don’t want to bust their ass for a wage which is too low in comparison to the cost of living in Taiwan.

True story: I farm in Hualien…a couple years ago I did some brush clearing work to earn some additional money besides my unproductive farm… I asked for only 1500 NTD a day including free lunch…over here most employers who are themselves honest hard working people who know the meaning of “hard work” are still willing to pay 1500 to 2000 NTD a day for this kind of work…until that day when the wife of one of my employers politely complained I worked too slow compared to the young Vietnamese dude they illegally hired on sunday. (This guy legally, I presume so, worked at a geese slautherhouse on the weekday and made additional money doing some farm work on sunday.) Actually I wasn’t too slow, but not cheap enough! So after hearing her complaint, I resigned on the spot and before leaving I litterally threw at her face the 3750 NTD she gave me for two and half day of work.
I’m far from being a rich guy but whenever I employ someone here in Taiwan I never give less than 2000 NTD for a day of actual serious work.
True story 2: One day I made a visit to a permaculture association in Hualien…I was chatting with a lady in her fifties who advised me to hire migrant workers on my farm because they are super cheap…upon hearing that I was shocked and disgusted! I explained to her that this practice is called “social dumping” and because of it more and more local families can’t make a decent living…


#68

Don’t forget that Taiwan is short nearly 300,000 farm workers. And that young Taiwanese don’t want to work on a farm for any amount of reasonable money. Can’t watch Korean soaps or sit in cafe or play on phone when out in the field or factory.


#69

You threw money at them ?

They will gladly keep it and feel zero remorse


#70

Judging by your comment it looks like you don’t understand the meaning of this gesture either, don’t you, Tommy?
Values and attitudes surrounding money matters between Taiwanese and European (especially French…) are massively different.


#71

I don’t get it either.

If I had someone do some work for me, and after the job is done and they refuse the money(assuming I have no need for them for long term) I wouldn’t mind


#72

Indeed they are. And in Taiwan that french gesture will not be understood correctly. It will only result in the Taiwan side gladly taking the money back. And it won’t in the least faze them even one single molecule. Therefore your gesture is truly money thrown in the wind.

YOu assume they care that you are offended? They don’t give a rat’s ass as we say in America.

Just sayin.


#73

Not true Tommy if he did it in front of their friends or peers because of loss of face. Would better to be accompanied by ‘gan ni…’. Then it can easily escalate…

But plenty won’t worry either and keep the money. I can understand why he did it though because ‘fuck you’ is worth it sometimes.

Both are right above. There’s a lot of exploitation here and there’s also a huge demand for cheap labour as industry, construction and farming are all crying out for it! Loads of construction workers here are in their 50s and 60s it’s crazy…


#74

Sub “UK” for “Taiwan” and “Poland” for “SE Asia”, you have the reason for Brexit.

In democratic environment, your vote matter. Instead of voting green (who feels “international”) you should vote blue (who feels “Chinese”).
Next, same problem with a twist… the cheap illegal workers also gonna speak Chinese fluently.


#75

In prearranged work positions at select locations…by well meaning pro bono brokers? That is plain human trafficking, meaning the Vietnamese did not come here to knock on doors looking for a job and ended up there by coincidence. Someone recruited them in Vietnam, may or may not have told them the truth about their jobs -most cases like this involve bait and switch- and got paid handsomely both by the establishment bosses plus a percentage of earnings and also the fee from the workers themselves.


#76

Check the news. We already had groups of Chinese coming here to work in a variety of fields, including « entertainment».


#77

Yeah, but sadly not the Farmer’s fields :thinking:


#78

Not even the «illegals» are working the fields. I mean, they have occasional workers at best.

I wonder how can the farmers pay day laborers when cabbage, a staple, is rotting in the fields not because there is no one to pick it up, but because it costs more to take it to market than to let it rot and cannot be sold at cost nor profit.


#79

Immigration was only one of the factors… it was the way the older Brits who lapped up the nostalgia about the glorious old days ‘wot really won it for Brexit…’


#80

Well DUH, as they say . I suppose the ladies may NOT actually have thought they were headed for a brothel but instead a “high paying” secretarial job worth running away to.

But clearly good thinking did NOT prevail here.