New website: http://www.alientw.org/

Ethnicity is not a qualifier of ROC Nationality Law. Descent is the key for dual nationality. There is a theorectical question if Paogao could regain his US citizenship and still remain a ROC citizen in his unique circumstances. I think it is more a question of ROC law than US law. For him, I believe he was legally “born” of Taiwan parents and thus registered as a ROC descendant.

Those born in Taiwan but are not officially registered under Household system are not ROC citizens. Jus sanguinis here.

Jus soli is for anyone born in the USA. Different place and perspective means a different law.

Step 1:
A HK permanent resident (PR) is definitely worth considering if attempts at getting Taiwan PR prove difficult.

(English teachers are generally paid better in Hong Kong)

Step 2:
Any HKPR with 7 years stay in Hong Kong can apply for citizenship or the HKSAR passport. If they don’t apply for citizenship this “leave to stay” is permanent regardless of whether they stay or leave HK after getting PR.

Investor:
Any investor with $6.5 million Hong Kong dollars can apply for a HKPR instantly.

There are no race/nationality restrictions; Black, white, yellow can all apply.

Basic Income tax rates are lower than all developed countries (17% max) and there is no capital gains tax, no tax on investment (stock earnings) etc. No restrictions on movement of capital - unlike Taiwan.

No restrictions for travelling to and from Taiwan; or to and from China. Most HKPR can work in China more easily than those with a TaiBao-Zheng. All HKPR use what is known as a TongXing Zheng which is essentially a swipe card. Unlike the TaiBao Zheng there is no more “chopping” or limiting of the number of days of validity or stay inside China etc…
You are free to come and go as you please.

BTW HK citizens do not pay any taxes on “overseas” earnings outside of HK, unlike countries such as Canada or the US.

Also since China is about to establish a free trade zone, by next year - 2003, with the ASEAN countries it is very likely that work permits or even PR with such SE Asian countries will be automatic, somewhat like within the EU with an EU/UK passport.

:smiley: :slight_smile:

[quote]
British Citizens - right of abode in UK
BDTCs - not many left, no right of abode
British Overseas Citizens - not many left either (no right of abode)
British Nationals Overseas - completely useless toilet roll substitute
British Protected Persons - from the old protectorates, didn’t tend to be very well protected
British Subjects - pointless category, mainly poor sods who didn’t become either CUKCs, or Pakistanis or Indians. [/quote]

Categorically, this is similar to the ROC Passport and ROC Overseas Passport. Overseas Chinese are not registered by household register and so they do not have right of abode.

This is even applied to US Trust Territory Passport. However, by a treaty right of habitual residency, they can be indefinitely resident in the USA as a non-immigrant status and will even have Open Employment Authorization Documents. This “equivalency” of green card status applies to any former citizens of the US Trust Territory, but it is not a ticket to citizenship. Plus restrictions are imposed upon any naturalized citizens of the Pacific republics in Free-Association status with the USA. Taiwanese passport fraudsters were the leading culprit for this abuse.
American practices emulate the British and New Zealanders.

Japanese system. Formosans were Japanese nationals for over 50 years from 1895 to 1952. After that they were made ROC citizens by the Treaty of Taipei. So many have amnesia and think they were never Japanese nationals. Then they read stuff on Taiwan Documents and can’t figure it out.

Slightly OT question for Poagao. Would u mind briefly describing your unique situation for those of us who don’t know. It seems very interesting. You are a white guy with an ROC passport having given up your US passport? Is that right?

Yes.

Brief enough?

For a somewhat longer version, try the Taipei Times article about his book.

Here is the comic version. Notice the similiarity with the guy on the right of the last frame. This parody is so funny and was taken from the Paogao: The Movie:laughing:

thesandpebbles.com/parody/panel14.html

No, no, no, your other right!! The guy on the other right.

:unamused: Whatever.

Poagao - I don’t think I said “the briefer the better” but thx anyway :smiley: .
The TT article is great, Cranky - thx for that.

Richard, you have my full support!

How do I make a donation? :smiley:

I don’t follow you. If it is not possible for a non-Chinese to become an ROC citizen other than by adoption, then how are there ever going to be any non-Chinese ROC citizens from whom citizenship could descend ?

The entire nationality law is framed so as to go to the furthest possible extent to avoid diluting the racial purity of Taiwan. It would appear there is no quota on Hua Qiao “citizens” coming in - but “foreigners” (meaning non-Chinese) would clutter up Taiwan (overcrowded, small island etc - what country doesn’t come up with this pathetic comment!?) Citizenship through birth is clearly unacceptable, as it could give rise to non-Chinese citizens. Dual citizenship is made easy for ethnically Chinese people, but very difficult indeed for non-ethnically Chinese people who wish to do exactly the same thing.

My wife is currently looking at the Nationality Law, and I will be passing it on to an ethnically Chinese Hong Kong lawyer friend of mine at Allen & Overy in HK for his opinion on the matter. When he gets back from holiday (!)

Now it would appear that my wife could get an Overseas ROC passport (see below). What would your take be on this, Richard ?

(I wonder where the Chinese is for this - from the BOCA website)

Application procedures for overseas ethnic Chinese originally from the Mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau

Applicants that may apply for a passport if meeting one of the following requirements and being approved by the authorities in charge of ROC missions in these locations:

(1). Overseas ethnic Chinese from the Mainland China:

a. Those who have permanent residence status b[/b], or long- term residence status in a country where the resident permit can be extended and where there is no permanent residence status system.

b. Those who have lived overseas for more than four years, or have lived in a foreign country continuously for more than two years and have permanent residence status (yes - but one will do), or those married for at least two years with a ROC national, or have a child with a ROC national.

c. Special considerations based on political, economic, social, educational, technological, cultural, athletic, religious and humanitarian reasons.

Applicants originally from Mainland China meeting one of the above criteria are required to submit the following documents and fee for the first time application: 
  1. A completed passport application form
  2. Certificate of permanent or long-term residence permit
  3. A passport or identification certificate issued in the Mainland China
  4. Two identical passport photos (2x2 inches, color) 5. A fee of US $36 or its equivalent in the local currency
  5. Other relevant certificates

What would be the advantage of her getting an ROC passport ? I will have to look again at the stuff from your website, Richard, to see if she can get HH registration (was it 3 years?).

Jus sanguinis principle is applied here. It is indistinguishable from Han ethnicity when the majority of Taiwan descendants are Chinese. But Han Chinese are not the only racial group in Taiwan. Once one is officially registered under the Taiwan Household Register system, their descendants are also ROC citizens. This jus sanguinis is not explicitly a racial qualifier.

However, there is your noted issue of the overseas category which is different. That passport does not mean registery in any household and the automatic right of abode that goes with along with it. There is issue of jus sanguinis for mainlanders of direct descendant from a Taiwan household. Who’s your daddy?

We’ve got three types of status here:

    1. ROC citizen
    2. Overseas citizen
    3. ARCP

These last two are non-household registery status types. So getting registered is the key. Naturalization or adoption are two methods of getting household registeration. Adoption means one is a legal descendant by law under jus sanguinis for household registeration. Naturalization is the acquisition of ROC nationality under jus sanguinis (Art. 2), so the establishment of a household register. The catch is the foreign citizenship renunciation.

Comparative laws:
We Americans tried to apply the jus sanguinis principle to the Chinese aliens whom were Imperial subjects of Beijing.
This was to forbid dual nationality under the racial exclusion of the Chinese Exclusion Act and birth within territory under American dominion. Natural-born subjects of British Common Law ruled not so under their substantially more equal protections of the 14th Amendment. This is jus soli and jus sanguinis in conflict.

Let me put it another way. My cousin was born in Hong Kong. He is white. My friend G was born in Hong Kong - he is Chinese. When they both go up to the Taipei Rep Office in London looking for an Overseas Chinese passport based on having been born in HK - who do you think will get one and who do you think won’t ? My wife will shortly be applying for an overseas ROC passport based on her place of birth - Shanghai. That presumably is your jus soli. According to the various regulations, which on this matter are a model of clarity, my wife can then enter Taiwan and live with me happily ever after. (Well, except that the PRC passport will be cancelled in the process, and I’m not sure that would go down well with the powers that be in the PRC. Hmmm - has anyone ever done this and been able to get back into China ?) This of course is where it gets murky and is not clear when and under what circumstances she will get HH registration when hubby is a damned pesky foreigner. Nevertheless, the regulations for obtaining an ROC passport are crystal clear, down to the exact fee of USD36. We both know there is more chance of Lenny Bruce re-appearing as the Second Coming of Christ, that the Taipei Rep Office in London giving an ROC passport to some damned Commie with a Big Nose husband, so where do we go from here ? From my years of living in Taiwan it is clear that Taiwanese laws, rules, and regulations, aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.

I thought jus sanguinis was the principle of acquiring nationality by descent ? Surely it can’t apply to naturalisation - which is a grant by executive decision. In the UK British Citizenship by descent is an inferior type of citizenship to that derived from birth in the UK or naturalisation (or indeed adoption), as a British Citizen by descent is constricted in the ease with which he can pass on his nationality to his children.

TWO separate passport status issues are being combined by your logic. Overseas is quirky. Household register is a separate issue of ROC Citizens, not Overseas. Whomever has overseas status is not automatically granted right of abode. Household registeration does this as part of being
first class citizens, not second class overseas citizens.

It is a principle for acquiring nationality. Just how it is applied or modified is subject to domestic law. In the UK, the status of nationality has more degrees of hierarchy. In legal reality, this is the same for American citizenship, too. Naturalized citizenship has no “absolute” rights quite like jus soli of the 14th Amendment. But don’t tell them because the Puerto Ricans are “collectively naturalized” by statute. We can take away their US citizenship and sell them to China. Give them Puerto Rico, and we’ll take Taiwan. It is legally feasible, but not politically.

This is the same thing you are seeing in the ROC Nationality Law for naturalization. In practice, it will have little effect on your life. Unless you sell (stolen) nuclear secrets from the Chungshan Institute in Taiwan to the Academy of Science in Beijing. Then you’re screwed for denaturalization purposes.

Darn editing button made two posts… :imp: It is a principle for acquiring nationality. Just how it is applied or modified is subject to domestic law. In the UK, the status of nationality has more degrees of hierarchy. In legal reality, this is the same for American citizenship, too. Naturalized citizenship has no “absolute” rights quite like jus soli of the 14th Amendment. But don’t tell them because the Puerto Ricans are “collectively naturalized” by statute. We can take away their US citizenship and sell them to China. Give them Puerto Rico, and we’ll take Taiwan. It is legally feasible, but not politically.

This is the same thing you are seeing in the ROC Nationality Law for naturalization. In practice, it will have little effect on your life. Unless you sell (stolen) nuclear secrets from the Chungshan (Zhongshan) Institute in Taiwan to the Academy of Science in Beijing. Then you’re screwed for denaturalization purposes.

Upon your naturalization, then how does your child gain your ROC Nationality? Jus sanguinis. You want to get into the descent system by household registeration and you will not have problems of perceived racial exclusions. Kids will ask Junior,“Who’s your daddy?” And is he Chinese? No, but he is (ROC) Chinese. Ah, the joys of homogenous society.

Where has the dual nationality poll disappeared to?
I wanted to see how the poll was doing and there it was: gone!
Anyone seen it? :?

Richard,

I’d be willing to donate money. Would you be willing to provide some sort of enumeration as to how much is needed for what? I’d feel more comfortable donating that way. Your time spent in lobbying should be one of the categories, by the way.

Kind of like a goal or fund raising objective? Even having a level of money raised to date posted on a rising thermometer chart or something like that?

Interesting point.

This will be an association which primarily deals with the human rights problems of disadvantaged persons in Taiwan, with a particular emphasis on foreigners’ problems.

Account number: 150-10-021861
Taiwan Kairos Association Preparatory Office
Bank: First Commercial Bank, Nei-Hu Branch
No. 183 Cheng Kung Road, Sec. 3
Taipei, Taiwan
Swift Code FCBKTWTP
Bank telephone: 2793-2311, ext. 139

(The account number is eleven digits.) If there are any questions or problems with making a remittance, you may call the bank directly.

This posting is in response to the previous inquiry asking for the complete banking data of this Association.
Taiwan Kairos Association Preparatory Office
FAX: (02) 2792-6545

Are you seriously even considering hiring a DC lobbists?

What about FAPA?

At the minimum I will want to hire more lawyers and file more cases.

FAPA has their own agenda, do they not? Would they be at all interested in Hartzell’s agenda? I would assume not.