When I mentioned “fault” I wasn’t thinking in the legal sense. If somebody has an accident rate that appears to be many, many times the norm in a relatively safe area like the Science Park then can it really be said that all of the accidents were not his fault? There must be some obligation to fit in with local norms that cannot be fully encoded in any driving laws.
I know how to answer this. It is because every accident you have witnessed most likely involves Taiwanese. I have been here 7 years and the foreigner crew I hang out with has never had any serious accidents where someone needs an ambulance (but yes I have heard horror stories from other foreigners.) I mean that though, I don’t know any foreigner that has had a HUGE accident!! All my friends have been here years too. I am also involved in a racing team here. I have been with them for about 4 years, and pretty much every member is Taiwanese. Those guys are always getting into accidents. It is fucking insane to me, really!! Not on the race track but on the street. Why are you guys laying your bikes down all the time and breaking your arms??? Oh I know…because you are Taiwanese. I’m not trying to be racist, but it is just the way it is. The Taiwanese don’t follow the rules that we know of back in the States, Canada, England, etc., so they get in way more accidents than we do. They don’t ever learn, and also most of them wear helmets that are not DOT approved. I love this country, don’t give me wrong. I love the Taiwanese so much, but they don’t know how to drive/ride!
Motorcycles are dangerous; they are dangerous no matter where you are. Just be careful! Shit happens. I have been riding since I was 18 in the states and now here. I’m 32, and the only major crashes I have been in have been on the race track (and never been hurt even crashing at over 100 mph.)
Be responsible when riding a motorcycle or scooter. It doesn’t really matter where you live. Shit can go wrong real fast!
I read on this forum a couple of years ago that any accident you’re involved in is your fault and I have to agree. Not only your fault, certainly, but I’d say you have to take some responsibility. I’ve read hundreds of times “It wasn’t my fault” but if you think in terms of your road positioning, observation or anticipation, why did it happen? Were you going too fast? Did you fail to anticipate what was about to happen? Were you looking where you were going? Were you in the wrong place in the road? Leave yourself with nowhere to go? You can’t rely on the rules or a red light to protect you from a wanker driver.
My advice to anyone wanting to learn how to ride a motorcycle here is ride a scooter for a good few kms first, always pay 100% attention to what you’re doing, where you are on the road, look where you’re going, focus on the task at hand 100%, always expect everyone else to do the most cuntish thing possible, never leave yourself with nowhere to go when you’re overtaking. Think about what you’re doing at all times, concentrate! And practice how hard you can brake, turn, change direction at every opportunity. Quiet road? No one behind you? Try to stop as hard as you can! That way, you know the limits of what you can achieve when the shit hits the fan because you’ve done it so many times before.
I would bet that most scooter accidents happen when people just get here and they expect the traffic to behave the same way as in a more civilised country. Study it, what people do and what they don’t do, learn to anticipate it and you’ll be fine (probably).
I think a good tip that I was given on my training course in the UK was never cover the front brake when you ride. Cover the back brake, but you can’t close the throttle if you’re pulling the front brake. The last thing you want when you’re about to hit someone is a handful of brake and throttle at the same time. Therefore, get used to closing the throttle as a first reaction to a hazard, then braking can follow if necessary.
I’m 30 years old, I don’t know everything and I think a lot of what I know is just passive observation from my father that a lot of people don’t have, but I do think about it a lot. Every time I hear of someone having a crash here, I can instantly say what they did wrong and how they could have avoided it. That might sound wankerish but I mean it in a way of - think about what you did and where you were on that road, why did it happen? You should be thinking in that way whenever you ride. Never put yourself in a position of no way out if a vehicle close to you does the most wankerish thing possible at that time. Always look where you’re going, concentrate 100% on the job at hand, always give yourself room to take evasive action if you have to, learn the limits of your scooter or bike when the pressure isn’t on.
There’s only one way to learn and that’s by doing it. Just keep your wits about you and don’t try to walk before you can run.
Do I think it’s possible to get through life without ever having a crash if you employ these techniques every time you swing a leg over? Yes. Am I arrogant or niave? Time will tell! My mother always criticises my father’s driving - “Too fast! Slow down!” yet he drives very fast at all times. I’ve said to her so many times, there’s obviously some skill to it because he’s been driving like that for about 45 years and never had a single crash. It’s about observation, concentration, anticipation and practice. These will come given time and effort.
Good post, jaame … I’d agree with a lot of that. One problem: humans are simply not designed for moving fast. When we drive, we take a lot of mental shortcuts and invent various heuristics to work around the inherent limitations of our brains. Basically, that means selective attention. However hard you focus, there’s always going to be that one guy who does something so off-the-wall that you couldn’t reasonably avoid it. You can reduce your accident risk to a pretty low level by adjusting your own actions, but it’ll never be even close to zero.
This illusion of control is a fundamental fallacy that gets me pretty riled up (I’m working on an automated-vehicle project). Computers could take us where we want to go with a vanishingly small probability of accidents: but people prefer to sign their own death sentence, because they’re “in control”. You’re not in control. Issac Newton is. You’re just tweaking things a little.
Check this out sometime: stand by a T-junction and watch the number of scooters that just zoom out onto the main road without even a glance to the left. Many of them are older people, so they’ve presumably done that thousands of times. They rarely die. Why not? Simply because the geometry of the vehicles and road, and their relative speeds, make it fairly unlikely that a random merge will result in a collision, even if both drivers are playing with their mobile phones (which they often are). Therefore, most Taiwanese drivers make the same leap of logic that you do: I’ve been doing it for 45 years, therefore it’s OK. But it’s a little like playing Russian roulette, pulling the trigger five times, and saying “see? perfectly safe”. You just got real lucky. If you’re careful and paying attention, you’ve got a cylinder with 100 chambers, but that bullet is still in there somewhere. The Taiwanese think it’s more fun with more bullets.
The odds of dying on a scooter or bike here are fairly low. Myself and another poster did the math once. We figured out what percentage of the population was of riding age. And then how many people die per year on bikes/scooters and so on…in the end it was something like if you ride a scooter for 60 years here you have a one in seventy chance of dying on it. And considering your chance of dying from cancer is like one in four. Meh, why not ride?
Because, like I said before, death is not the only possible outcome in an accident (your calculations are about the same as mine).
Yes, it’s pretty unlikely you’ll die, but it’s 50-200 times more likely (global stats vary) that you’ll lose an arm or an eye, or spend three months in hospital. If you’re OK with that, fair enough. Personally, I’m not. I’ve seen it happen (to someone I cared about) and it is not pleasant.
[quote=“finley”]Because, like I said before, death is not the only possible outcome in an accident (your calculations are about the same as mine).
Yes, it’s pretty unlikely you’ll die, but it’s 50-200 times more likely (global stats vary) that you’ll lose an arm or an eye, or spend three months in hospital. If you’re OK with that, fair enough. Personally, I’m not. I’ve seen it happen (to someone I cared about) and it is not pleasant.[/quote]
But for many people motorcycling is about the most fun you can have on this island…a life without motorcycles is almost a life without living. And all things of value require some kind of sacrifice.
[quote=“iix23”]Hello Finley.
Lucky maybe, In my experience, driving with motorcycle clubs, with friends and by myself. I have noticed one constancy. 95% of the accident that I have witnessed were due to speed. Yes, there are goofball drivers around you that will give you obstacles. But if you are speeding it reduces the time margin reaction. In my opinion those crashes were mostly cause by the bike drivers and speed. The other 5% is like what happened to Captain Stag. He got run over by a drunk driver and broke his back. But he would not have fared better on a scooter or a bicycle.
How many time I have heard " But he cut me off." The real question was " How fast were you going? and would have you been cut off if you were not going that fast?? 
Anyway, to each his own. The OP wants to learn how to ride a bike. I say go for it and do it responsibly and safely. It’s great fun to take a ride in the mountains and enjoy the scenery.[/quote]
THIS, absolutely 100%.
In three years of riding in Taiwan I’ve had stuff drop out of the sky (well, out of intersections and even off of trucks anyway) on me plenty of times but I was alert and had time to use my brakes properly (although I’ve skidded once or twice). Keep alert, leave yourself time to react and learn to recongize dangerous situations. If you do these things I think the odds are OK.
True words of wisdom that have kept me alive for 12 years of scootering. Look well ahead of where you are and focus on every other vehicle around you. Never assume that others will follow the rules. Always be looking for someone who will cut you off, stop in the middle of the road without notice, go through a red light, turn without a signal, and the list goes on.
like someone said one time… ride fast… live short… or was it play hard… Live Long… anyways… enjoy life bcz the day that u have to die u will… even if its sitting in ur house watching TV… so ride fast
Use extra care on wet roads, esp. over painted surfaces… turning or braking on wet, painted surfaces is like riding on ice.
This is kind of fun watching all this. Carry on.
hahaha… i am also having fun with this one !!! every one is talking to the poster as if they were talking to their daughter/son hahaha… and dont take any candy from strangers lol
… most likely the poster is already riding crazy the streets of Taiwan as we all did are continue to do hahahaha
True, it is a bit like watching parental interaction, but I think the intentions are sincere. I always get a sick feeling in my stomach when I see a new comer in their new turtle shell helmet blasting off on a scooter with two speeds - stop and full throttle… 
I’ll be honest I bought a 150cc motorcycle and learned to ride here. And I was lucky not to be in an accident during the first 6 months while the controls were becoming 2nd nature. But one thing that I did was only ride on weekends for the first 3-4 months. And I would usually ride out of town where there was less traffic. Currently I reflect on my close calls as times when I’m going a little too fast or getting into a spot that is a little too crowded. And I find myself doing that less and less as I become more experienced and value my limbs/life.
Starting on a scooter is probably the best option since it’s the easiest and you’ll have the fewest things to focus on while learning. but it’s possible to learn on a motorcycle as long as you have other transportation for bad traffic times. but get a good full face helmet before you even start. And try to at least wear blue jeans and shoes while learning. A jacket would be good also but I don’t…
I have to point out something… i always see people saying things like… do you see foreigners crash? all my friends are ok… well that is not really a way to compare… i bet in your countries you dont see any taiwanese crashing… only your friends… its just a different proportion… if one foreigner crashes in taiwan… i bet that counts for at least 1000 taiwanese… or something like that hahaha… i do know several foreigners that crashed… me included… 5 times… so the issue has nothing to do with being foreigner or taiwanese… i would say it all depends on you and the capability to focus on the road and been able to moderate your speed and behavior while riding… i learned that i am not built for scooters… i drive them too fast… i am ok on big bikes since i am a lot more careful when riding them in the city and i control the power in a very stable way… so i do not ride scooters bcz i may end up dead… i drive a car every day to work… and i got a big one just in case another stupid scooter driver hits me… then i will be fine
be safe and enjoy life
Hi Finley
I think luck could count for something, but does that mean my mother who has been driving for 25 years and had countless bumps and crashes incluing two write offs including an 11-point, almost disqualification, is just unlucky? I think not! My dad is still alive because he’s really good at paying attention and reading the road.
I’m not having a go at you, however I think that skill and experience count for a lot more than luck. Maybe the T - junction wankers don’t die, but I bet a lot of them are involved in minor bumps and scrapes which still count as accidents in my eyes.
As for computer guided, crashproof vehicles, fuck that! I am completely, dead against them. I think for the majority they’d be great, but I feel afraid that if they make it then they will soon be “the only way”. Therefore anyone who drives or rides for enjoyment loses a part of who they are. If I was simply a passenger every time I got in the driving seat I’d feel like killing myself. For me, the only bit of freedom I feel on a daily basis in my married, fathering, full time working life is when I’m pinning it for fifteen minutes on the way home. A bit like Vin Diesel in TFTF, “for those ten seconds or less, I’m free”. It sounds cheesey but it’s true. It’s what keeps me going - taking it away would increase my stress level and reduce my will to live for sure.
To the OP - look out for the road markings in the wet is a great idea! Keep your scooter as upright as possible, be smooth on the controls, avoid the front brake (you should be going slowly enough in the wet to make the back brake all the brake you need!). Practice doing skids in a car park so you know how to catch them.
i’m going to address the orginal poster, and then get completely blasted by the rest!
Get yourself a 125cc and i’ll teach you to ride it. for the first year or so a 125 will give you enough joy, speed and fun that you need. Once you know how to ride it then think about taking your test and getting a bigger bike or renting.
people will tell you not to do it, people will give you tons and tons of advice, but in the long run it’s your life, do with it as you will, i know for a fact that no one could have stopped me from riding bikes, i’ve had several crashes (mostly my fault) but what the hell, we can’t walk through life in bubble wrap.
Anyway if you are serious PM me.
Of course it’s not entirely one or the other. I was just saying people tend to believe it’s their own skill when, most of the time, it’s just luck. Obviously bad drivers are going to have more crashes than good drivers - and, again, it’s just luck which bits of their anatomy come loose in the process.
Absolutely.
Actually I can completely understand that sentiment. I honestly believe that most people drive to work every day because, basically, it’s kinda fun - not because they have to. The sad thing is, it’s only fun because the rest of their lives are so fuckin’ boring. It’s the closest most people will ever get to, erm, being Vin Diesel.
The point about computer-guided vehicles is that they will be absolutely, 99.999% safe for boring, everyday transportation. Would you not be happier knowing your mum would definitely never die in a car accident (or kill someone else)?
There will indeed be no other way because we will soon be in an oil-free world (within our lifetimes - but there’s another thread). So … what are we going to do with all those empty roads, then? Well: all those leftover human-controlled vehicles should be souped up (fuel efficiency NOT a consideration) as far as they’ll go, speed limit signs and radar traps should be ripped up and burned on a big bonfire, and the road network should be made available for whoever dares to venture onto it to do whatever they want on it. If you crash, you die (or you pay for a private medical service). Then let’s see how much fun people really think it is. Eventually the novelty will wear off, and people will figure out there are a lot of other ways to get your jollies.
I read/scanned all of the posts and didn’t find an actual answer to the question: In order to get my Taiwan DL certified for a scooter larger than 100cc, I need to pass a driving test at the license office.
My wife just bought a nice new Yamaha of moderate engine size. I has a white license plate, so I know it’s over 100cc. I do NOT want my wife teaching me to drive-God help us all, her auto driving is among the worst I’ve ever seen ANYWHERE!
So how do I get to where I can pass the test? (Back when I started college in 1959 I had a Lambretta for a couple of years. I had no trouble operating it and no accidents.) I understand the local scooters don’t have gear shifting-my DL is certified for stick shift.)
Is there a school that teaches scooter driving ala Taiwan?
Someone mentioned a school for big bikes - I don’t want a big bike; too tempting.