Have you worked in Taiwanese companies before? It’s a shitshow
Also why are you more valuable, just for being foreign. Most foreigners represent a potential pain in the ass for HR departments and management, especially if you don’t speak Chinese. Foreigners are not going to follow the unspoken rules and are likely to directly complain about things.
You also represent a threat to the power structures and hierarchy within the company, that Taiwanese will always respect. Older HR managers especially can weild significant power and have their own fiefdoms. They have vested interest in things not changing
Most companies can accept foreigners coming in at an entry level and at lower salaries, but not for you to have power or status within the system.
It is the basic law of economics , like the conservation of energy is a basic law of physics. Corruption and other outliers aside, YES IT WORKS THAT WAY.
I imagine it depends on whether they want you because of special skills that are less likely to be found among the local workforce. If so, then there is a supply/demand reason for them to pay you more, and probably to make your job title align with work expectations. If you are doing the same work that a local person with similar skills could do, then, yeah, no real reason to pay you more. At least that was my experience 20+ years ago.
Yes and companies don’t want foreigners in higher positions. It’s the power and status dynamics of companies here. They don’t want big nose coming in and complaining about a meeting scheduled at 7pm on a Friday or whatever.
Actually for a lot of reasons. So in terms of calculation, whatever value a foreigner brings to a company, this is offset by the potential trouble they might bring. You can add a sprinkle of underlying xenophobia and resentment to the equation as well.
I’ve also over a decade of experience of working in Taiwanese companies, and encountered all of these issues.
Lower down on, middle manager …Ok…senior director, paid more than the HR manager…Hell no.
One HR manager even said that to me…You are asking for more than I get paid…In a billion dollar revenue organisation lol (and I wasn’t asking for a mega package either by any means).
Yeah, depends on the company. Like I said your skillset is offset by the potential trouble you might bring. It’s easy to get lower paying jobs in Taiwan but hard to get higher paying ones.
I have been sent to interviews by headhunters and told my experience and skills match a certain position and advised on a salary expectation that a Taiwanese would expect. However when got to the interview, HR balked at giving that kind of money to a foreigner. Happened twice
Happened to me also, also headhunted for that one.
They actually interviewed me twice, second time with the CEO who gave his personal nod of his approval,
agreed the terms , then later when I went to sign the HR and my direct manager had somehow changed the terms.
Told them wasn’t what we agreed and that was that. Somehow this came across as me being difficult , and our communication broke down.
Haven’t bothered interviewing or looking for a job.in taiwanese companies since. Been (mostly ) fortunate to have had other options over the last decade.
As you cannot, it is like you trying to tell someone the earth is flat. Let me put this real simply. If lots of foreigners flock to Taiwan from China to seek teaching work, your pay will either decrease , stay stagnant or you will lose your job. There are not many native English speakers here , and I presume you are an English teacher. Alternately if you feel bad about this then you could find out the Taiwanese teachers pay , and pay them back the difference from your salary. You would have to inform the tax office though to make sure they paid the extra tax. However, they then might just say you should leave your job as it is taking local jobs from locals. You could do that too.
Yeah it’s just a grind. In theory Taiwanese companies should be valuing experienced Chinese speaking foreigners, but in practice it doesn’t work that way.
Yeah and you hit it on the nose, the resistance usually doesn’t come from the CEO’s.
It sucked because I really needed that job at the time with young kids and not many options where I was .
But in the long run it worked out because I have a better brand name on the CV and more professional work environment so to speak (a separate topic…). I still can’t avoid Taiwan HR or management completely of course and to be fair they have been a mixed bag in terms of experiences. I’ve had worse foreign managers, but what I’m pointing here ,as you are , are the peculiar working dynamics of being a foreigner in a Taiwanese company.
I thought would be clear if I am talking about Taiwanese office dynamics. I just thought teachers don’t really have to deal with that stuff and the kind of Taiwanese who work in those sectors are generally fluent in English and more open minded.
But yeah what I said doesnt pay to teaching as far as I know
Yeah that’s what really sucks in Taiwan, these opportunities don’t come up all the time. If was Shanghai or Singapore, wouldn’t be a big deal
Yeah the same. I’ve had good experiences here and overall thankful for the opportunities Taiwan gave me, but at the same time, feel the amount of effort it takes to work in Taiwanese companies could be better spent elsewhere.
Taiwanese companies for me are dysfunctionally functional. As in the they make money, are successful but on an operational level don’t make sense, at least for an outsider.
And to be fair, Taiwanese also have a lot of issues with Taiwanese HR and management and I bet when they are in Western countries, many things in the office culture don’t make sense
Just watched the episode where they address the laowai stuff. I think more than anything, they are a bit clueless and naïve when it comes to making jokes and they are clearly talking to a local audience that is similarly clueless and naïve. Calling them racist or KKK is a bit over the top, I feel, however. I don’t see any hatred in what they are doing or any political agenda. I will be listening to them in the future depending on topic/guest. Good to get another perspective.
They might be hoping to achieve success like Rogan, but while they might grow their audience to be regarded a success in Taiwan, they will probably never have deep discussions with the leading brains of the world. I don’t think there is a market for that in Taiwan, so this pod will likely stay on the shallow side of things.
As to the term laowai, like any word people use, it depends on the intentions of the speaker. Most people I encounter who use laowai, seem to have had little exposure to foreigners and them using laowai (or the slightly more irritating Ah-Dou-Ga) to me just exposes their lack of international interaction.
An old fart on the basketball courts in the park I used to regularly play, always shouts at me Si Lao Wai (“Dead Old Foreigner”) when seeing me, I reply Si Lao Nei, all jokingly. Always depends on situations, relationships, intentions, etc. etc. I rarely get riled up about words.