I love Nirvana, I still regret missing out on a tiny (max. capacity 140 people) show in my college days for 6 bucks US.
And I still listen to it. For some reason Nirvana resonates for me.
Monster, I appreciate your enthusiasm for Nirvana. I would like to hear more about your thoughts on Cobainâs poetry - tell me why it is better than say . . . something by another contemporary of Nirvanaâs. Tell me about a particular song and itâs poetic-ness (is that a word?) - what makes it special for you?
I was in Taiwan during the grunge heydey back in the States, and when I got back to the States it was the mid-nineties and grunge was fairly well established by that time. I recall the flannel shirt, cut-off jeans-wearing fads. And feel a little left out at not really discovering and appreciating Nirvanaâs music until after Cobainâs death.
I often donât hear lyrics of songs (except for the chorus which is sung over and over again throughout a song), but rather the rhythm, volume, attitude/tone, melody and so on. Have heard some of the unplugged stuff, and really enjoy it. Have heard a lot of the Nevermind album, and probably some of the stuff on the 3rd one, but nothing from Bleach that I know of. It was definitely a unique sound that they shared with several other bands in the Seattle area if one is to believe the drivel that they feed you on those MTV rockumentary pieces.
As far as John Mossâs comments regarding Cobainâs choice to kill himself - if you were married to Courtney Love, wouldnât you be tempted?
Dave Grohl is originally from a town/city just north of where I grew up, Springfield, Virginia. Damn. Maybe I brushed past him at some regional football game or Lacrosse tournament, do ya think? 
Bodo
[quote=âBodoâ]Monster, I appreciate your enthusiasm for Nirvana. I would like to hear more about your thoughts on Cobainâs poetry - tell me why it is better than say . . . something by another contemporary of Nirvanaâs. Tell me about a particular song and itâs poetic-ness (is that a word?) - what makes it special for you?
I was in Taiwan during the grunge heydey back in the States, and when I got back to the States it was the mid-nineties and grunge was fairly well established by that time. I recall the flannel shirt, cut-off jeans-wearing fads. And feel a little left out at not really discovering and appreciating Nirvanaâs music until after Cobainâs death.
I often donât hear lyrics of songs (except for the chorus which is sung over and over again throughout a song), but rather the rhythm, volume, attitude/tone, melody and so on. Have heard some of the unplugged stuff, and really enjoy it. Have heard a lot of the Nevermind album, and probably some of the stuff on the 3rd one, but nothing from Bleach that I know of. It was definitely a unique sound that they shared with several other bands in the Seattle area if one is to believe the drivel that they feed you on those MTV rockumentary pieces.
As far as John Mossâs comments regarding Cobainâs choice to kill himself - if you were married to Courtney Love, wouldnât you be tempted?
Dave Grohl is originally from a town/city just north of where I grew up, Springfield, Virginia. Damn. Maybe I brushed past him at some regional football game or Lacrosse tournament, do ya think?
Bodo[/quote]
Heart Shape Box. The woman destroyed him. Her band alone personified a woman scorn through her family background (Hole). She paid a major role in his death and she knows it. Every one of his songs are based on childhood memories that were lost through adolecence during his use of hardcore drugs. I donât expect many people here to relate to hardcore usage but think for a moment how this man may have been thinking when he was cranked on substances in the excessive amounts that he was using. Everything he mumbled had meaning and most werenât listening.
From his voice to his words. He was deeply troubled and his music and the whole culture were fathered by him.
I think Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Sound Garden and The Temple of The Dog were the pioneers of something great. The only people to follow in their footsteps, IMHO, were The Tea Party, I Mother Earth, The Headstones, Our Lady Peace and Trebal Charger. Unfortunately they all faded away.
oh come on bodo and monster,
is there no such thing as divorce!!!
suicide is one persons decision. period.
you canât blame someonesâ suicide on a bad marriage. get real.
you are making excuses for someone you idolize. he was the one with the final decision to end his life, and end his fatherhood.
do you know courtney love? did you live with her?
how bad could a marriage be that the only out is to kill yourself?
jm
[quote=âJOHN MOSSâ]
how bad could a marriage be that the only out is to kill yourself?
jm[/quote]
I donât think his marriage to Courtney was the major factor in his decision to commit suicide. Could have been one of the factors though, for all we know. He had attempted suicide a number of times prior to this, and talked about it, with seemingly genuine intent, a long time before he had ever even met Courtney.
Seemed to have a lot to do with depression (iâm talking the clinical illness, not just âangstâ), a poor self-image, family problems, being an outcast and bullied at school, and finally being catapulted, very unexpectedly, into a position where he was being called the saviour of rock and roll, and all sorts of things like that. There were all sorts of factors at play.
And a lot of it seems to have come from a mysterious, incurable stomach ailment which plagued him for years and left him in agony, and sometimes unable to play shows - causing his crossover from booze and weed, the drugs of his teenage years, to the harcore stuff - heroin, which ultimately destroyed him.
of course she didnât cause the suicide, kurt killed himself. see my first post, i agree with trapjaw. kurt suffered from clinical depression and was not able to cope with the fame his stardom brought him.
i feel like fans of kurt are looking for a scapegoat, and courtney seems like an easy target, while i think that as bad as a marraige could be, it is not the reason he killed himself. it goes much deeper, so deep no one will know what was going on with him. all we can do is speculate.
thats what everyone who commits suicide leaves behind-those that cared about them asking why.
to blame it on someone else is rediculous and wrong.
jm
i love nirvana but please dont use nirvana and pearl jam in the same sentence. they are so far apart in terms of talent its not funny. pearl jam rode coat tails and were boring shite. given their connections they were bound to succeed⌠they will be the rolling stones of our generation in 30 years⌠they just wont go away no matter how bad they are.
Iâd think Nirvana could be more safely compared to The Doors than The Stones who are still capable of releasing new material and touring.
i was comparing pearl jam to the stones
Sorry. 
Understandable comparison.
[quote=âtrapjawâ][quote=âJOHN MOSSâ]
how bad could a marriage be that the only out is to kill yourself?
jm[/quote]
I donât think his marriage to Courtney was the major factor in his decision to commit suicide. Could have been one of the factors though, for all we know. He had attempted suicide a number of times prior to this, and talked about it, with seemingly genuine intent, a long time before he had ever even met Courtney.
Seemed to have a lot to do with depression (Iâm talking the clinical illness, not just âangstâ), a poor self-image, family problems, being an outcast and bullied at school, and finally being catapulted, very unexpectedly, into a position where he was being called the saviour of rock and roll, and all sorts of things like that. There were all sorts of factors at play.
And a lot of it seems to have come from a mysterious, incurable stomach ailment which plagued him for years and left him in agony, and sometimes unable to play shows - causing his crossover from booze and weed, the drugs of his teenage years, to the harcore stuff - heroin, which ultimately destroyed him.[/quote]
He was a troubled youth (good band too) who had to endure God knows what and even to most of us who could brush it off in a manner, he obviously couldnât. He was deeply distrubed and most likely clinically depressed. Agreed?
Enter Courtney: Probably his only love of his life who beat him down with a preverbial stick on a daily. The woman is/was nuts (no doubt about it) and misery loves company, right? Bad combo. So yes, I do think that woman drove him over the edge. He wrote about her pretty often and in fact, I would say that most of his songs were geared towards women.
Can we ever really talk about or know what went on in his mind with any great confidence? Interpreting modern day lyrics is nigh on impossible from the likes of Britney Spears let alone Cobain.
Would you rather get into a debate regarding why the world is at war? I prefer the inner battle.
[quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunge_music]Above all, the slow, heavy sound of The Melvins was the biggest influence on grunge. Both The Melvins and the punk band The Wipers (also influential) are themselves considered grunge bands by some fans of the genre, although others classify them as hardcore punk bands. Aside from its punk origins, the grunge movement had strong roots in the musical and youth culture of the American northwest. The musical resemblance to such 1960s northwest bands as the Wailers and, most particularly, the Sonics, is unmistakable.
Mark Arm, the vocalist for the Seattle band Green River (and later Mudhoney), is widely credited for being the first to use the term âgrungeâ to describe the style. However, Arm used the term pejoratively; he called the bandâs style âpure grunge, pure shitâ. This was not seen as being negative by the media, and the term was subsequently applied to all music that sounded similar to Green Riverâs style.[4] It is likely that the term was seen as appropriate because of the âdirtyâ guitar sound that grunge is known for (the word grunge itself means âdirtâ) and the unkempt appearance of most bands of the genre which was in direct contradiction to the relatively polished look of hair metal bands of the late 1980s.
Formed in 1983, Green River is widely believed to have created the genre, and was a large inspiration for many grunge bands despite the bandâs relatively low level of commercial success.[5] After the band split up in 1988, members of Green River formed Mudhoney and Mother Love Bone, continuing on their style. Green River, who used a harder sound in their performance than many later grunge bands, inspired other early grunge bands such as Soundgarden and Alice in Chains to use a similarly hard style. However, the sound of the genre became a mix of the earlier grunge style and alternative rock shortly before its mainstream success in the 1990s. This is most often credited to Nirvanaâs style, which combined the sound of earlier grunge bands with that of The Pixies. Nirvanaâs use of the Pixiesâ âsoft verse, hard chorusâ style popularized this stylistic approach in both grunge and other alternative rock genres[/url].[/quote]
The above is from wikipedia regarding the origins of grunge. The bands mentioned there are the ones I was thinking of in my earlier post - not Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, etc.
John Moss, sorry I didnât make it more clear that my comment regarding Courtney Love was a sarcastic one. I didnât mean to imply she caused his suicide. I agree with you that the decision was ultimately Cobainâs, and I also agree that he had serious mental health issues that were not adequately addressed (probably because he was unwilling, and was self-medicating with drugs). I am afraid you also misinterpreted my feelings about Cobain/Nirvana. I do not idolize them. While it is true that I enjoy their music a great deal, there are other musicians I enjoy and admire far more.
Friendly word to the wise - I suggest a little better reading of what folks post, and try not to make assumptions and put words into their mouths as you did in your post addressing both Monster and myself. 
Bodo
thanks for the clarification bodo, my apologies to you.
however, mr monster continues to ignore the real issue with cobain. he seems to think that someone else could cause another persons suicide. this, i wholeheartedly disagree with.
sorry you got entangled in this bodo, i did read your post and included you in with those who suggested ms love caused a suicide. i dont think anyone can be so enbedded with another that they must seek suicide to get out of this situation. the only situation cobain was trying to get out of was life, not a marriage. i think its weak to say, oh, darn that courtney, she made my beloved kurt kill himself, if she never came in to the picture, my darling kurt would still be here playing his lovely songs for me, oh damn you courtney, you murderer.
give me a break.
jm
[quote=âJOHN MOSSâ]thanks for the clarification bodo, my apologies to you.
however, mr monster continues to ignore the real issue with cobain. he seems to think that someone else could cause another persons suicide. this, i wholeheartedly disagree with.
sorry you got entangled in this bodo, I did read your post and included you in with those who suggested ms love caused a suicide. I donât think anyone can be so enbedded with another that they must seek suicide to get out of this situation. the only situation cobain was trying to get out of was life, not a marriage. I think its weak to say, oh, darn that courtney, she made my beloved kurt kill himself, if she never came in to the picture, my darling kurt would still be here playing his lovely songs for me, oh damn you courtney, you murderer.
give me a break.
jm[/quote]
Love does wonderful things, doesnât it?
His age and his experience played a huge role in it. SoâŚfuck you.
oh, fu? thats so sweet. but no thanks monster,
i thought you wanted to hear our views on kurt cobain. oh, only if we agree with you, ok, so sorry.
i guess we all see what kind of person you are now.
and by the way, that wasnât love brother. at least not where i come from.
peace to you,
jm
All Apologies.
Peace.
dear monster,
all apologies accepted, and i thank you.
best,
jm
Ah Bodo,
Iâve reread your post which included a few bands that I adored as well. Nice.
Alice in Chains and Soundgarden were amazing. Have you heard of the band Temple of The Dog?
Chris Cornel brainstormed the idea of fusing Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. Some amazing music came out of that era.