Thank you!! Very helpful info.
I most likely am going to drop it. Like I said I don’t want to cause any trouble for myself or the school, just was looking for an answer on whether or not they could do that. As Tando pointed out, they can, so I got my answer. Curious why they would report it to the tax office though? Wouldn’t that jeopardize them as well for employing a worker illegally?
Ah just trying to learn the ropes here in Taiwan seems like a lot of things are illegal but people do it anyway or just look the other way?
My roommate is working at a kindy (which in itself is illegal I think) and didn’t have to go in Wednesday, when I asked why she was off she said the school was having an inspection by the gov’t so foreign teachers couldn’t be there and they hide the English textbooks. I was like wait the government notifies the school prior to the inspection, what’s the point of that? She said a lot of gov’t officials have their children in these schools…All seems very strange to me but I digress, thank you for your input, dropping it seems like the best way to go!
I didnt mean they report the money they withhold to the tax office. They can withhold it from your salary and most probably just pocket it.
I was referring to Dan’s post
“you better hope they are just pocketing the money because if they are submitting it to the tax office you’re gonna have a lot of fun explaining that to the immigration officer as most government agencies are now linked”
I was curious if they aren’t pocketing it wouldn’t submitting it be detrimental to them as well?
I’ll give you one hypothetical example.
A certain school wanted to take on a sub teacher for two weeks , but than called for that subs arc number so as to report the tax.
The school was advised that reporting the tax would cause a problem for the school and the teacher. The accountant insisted on reporting it because it is illegal to not report tax.
Shakes head at the inconsistency of that statement.
Likely they are just pocketing it.
You can just tell them, hey you aren’t paying it because I don’t have an arc so pony up and see what they say
Because like others said it’s not like you can rock up to the labor board to complain
Regarding your roommate’s job, the short answer is that it’s almost definitely illegal. Even when there’s no work permit violation (which there usually is), you can still be fined if you’re not properly qualified in the eyes of the government.
Traditionally, the perception has been that the tax office doesn’t communicate with the offices that would arrange for you to be arrested, fined and deported. Recently it has been claimed that that is changing.
If you want to “go straight”, there is apparently no benefit to turning yourself in. Just quit your illegal job immediately, never work illegally again, and ask a lawyer what you should do about your taxes.
If the school (presumably a buxiban) has actually been reporting your income to the tax office and not just pretending to do so, you should eventually (by January or February next year) receive proof of this; the withholding statements will have the appropriate stamp.
The purpose of claiming its “income from professional practice” and not “salary” is presumably to avoid the perception of an employment relationship and whatever scrutiny might accompany it. (Either that or it’s a convenient excuse to take an extra 2% of your pay – or both.)
Just my own personal experience and everyone here will contradict me. I’ve filed taxes loads of times at the tax office for jobs worked without ARC. The tax office does not care. I’ve even had them produce a refund check for a job I didn’t know had been deducting taxes from me. This is common in many tax jurisdictions. In New Zealand you can declare income from the growing of marijuana. Tax offices in many countries do not share information with the police or immigration.
If anyone has had the experience of getting in trouble for admitting to the tax office of working without a work permit then I’m all ears.
I went to the tax office yesterday and in addition to the tax I owed for a full time job I started in April last year they also had free-lance income declared on my behalf and tax deducted by two other companies on my sheet. Note that it is a completely passive process, you rock up and they print out everything in the system under your name. No one enquires if maybe you didn’t have a few other dodgy under the table incomes.
You are complaining about the pirate ship you work on and forgetting you signed on as a pirate
Another anarcho-capitalist paradox. Where’s Jotham when we need him?
Immigration enforcement is not a task of the tax office. Conversely, the income of illegal immigrants or legal residents working illegally are still taxable. So I see no problem here.
The problem is whether the NIA has access to such data or not. The way work permits, ARC/APRCS, and tax statements for foreigners are administrated in Taiwan - all connected to a passport number and UID - makes it very easy to figure out if someone is in violation of the conditions of their stay.
Years ago the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing at government offices in Taiwan (as in many other places). And you still might feel that way today in many circumstances. However, more and more systems are being connected. Case in point: all agencies under the MoI now have access across all systems that are operated by MoI agencies. There is no reason why this trend should remain within individual ministries and not continue across ministries.
Yeah you is right as I recently found out. 5 years of parking tickets turned up on my doorstep due to the address on my ARC now being visible to the Hsinchu traffic authorities. But I’d be very interested to hear of arrests for illegal working based on declared, illegal income. I don’t think it’ll happen because it’s a disincentive for paying taxes bearing in mind that there is currently no compulsion on foreigners to pay up (i.e. no exit stamp required, no tax certificate needed for ARC issuance etc.)
Foreigners (just as locals) who fail to pay taxes can be banned from leaving Taiwan.
Oh it’s definitely illegal, that was my point. Since arriving in Taiwan I have heard and experience many odd things about the legalities of working here in Taiwan. Seems like the majority turn a blind it. The government knows kindys employ foreign teachers although illegal. The schools know they should not employ foreign teachers but do anyway. The teachers know it is illegal to work at kindys, but so anyway. So as someone who has only been here 3 months just trying to figure it all out.
No, I wasn’t ever planing on taking it to an authority. As I know, that wouldn’t be in my best interest. I was simply hoping there was a code I could reference to them stating they shouldn’t be taking taxes out, since when I questioned it they said they would get back to me with the code giving them permission to do so.
Also, not a buxibon, business English with adults
Thanks for your input.
Not complaining, simply trying to get information. If they can take out taxes as others have pointed out to be correct, then no harm no foul. Thank you for your helpful reply though.
I don’t find it odd. Agricultural labourers, domestic workers etc are often illegals in many developed countries. Doesn’t make it right either on the part of the employer or the employee, but it’s standard practice. It could be argued that morally it’s worse for people from wealthy countries taking illegal kindy jobs in Taiwan than it is for people from poor countries picking pumpkins in the USA.
The law’s only black and white if you want it to be. Tommy525 summed it up better than I could.
The law is only back and white if you want it be? lol okay then what is the point of these laws. I don’t work at a kindy but the whole thing is odd to me and I still stand by it. What is the point of making it illegal for foreigners to teach there if authorities aren’t going to enforce this law? It seems very much you scratch my back I scratch yours. I want my kid to learn English taught by for a foreigner so i’m not going to do my job and enforce the rules or worse accept payment to look away when I know there are foreigners working there. I’m not absolving teachers on their role in this. All involved are doing the wrong thing and again that seems odd to me.
And the difference in the scenario you speak of about agricultural laborers or domestic workers working illegally in the USA is that, as far as I know, the government/authorities don’t look away when they know this is going on and they don’t take concessions not to enforce the law.
You raise some interesting philosophical points here. What is the point of the rule of law if people do not follow it? If a law isn’t enforced then should it still be obeyed? Would that be the wrong thing to do?
I don’t really have any black and white answers. All I will say is that the law is sometimes enforced and people do get deported. Seriously, it happens.
Ideally yes, people should still obey the law even if it isn’t being enforced. Speeding or talking on a cell phone while driving comes to mind. But if an individual knows or thinks they aren’t going to get caught it makes it a lot easier not to abide by that law. The motivation to follow a law decreases each time you get away it. So I guess the question is who has the bigger responsibility the people to abide by laws regardless of consequence or lack there of, or the authorities that are tasked with enforcing the law?
I believe you that it does happen but it seems from my brief observation that
Teachers get away with working at kindys far more than they get deported for it.
Schools get away with employing foreign teachers far more than they get fined for it.
And authorities look the other away when a school or teacher isn’t following this law, so long as they are benefiting from it (kids are learning English), far more than they enforce it.
Oh well gotten quite off topic here. I think I have my tax question answer. Thanks!
This is why libertarianism will never work.
I went shoplifting at Costco yesterday, and some of the goods I took were spoiled.
Is there anywhere I can go to complain about it?
Any chances I could get a refund?