No Connection Between Money and Happiness (Enter and Vote!)

Discussion Open Forum
1

How Happy Are You?

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I get the sense that there is almost no connection between the amount of money a person has and how happy they are. I’ve said this before in other posts. If it is known that this is the case, how can people’s energies get redirected to doing things that make them happy? How can societies bring the focus off of money and on to issues related to “quality of life”?

Even though this is something I spend much time thinking about, I’ll often find myself falling victim to the never ending spiral of consuming for (empty) pleasure.

There also seems to be a lack of happiness research. What I wanted to share was a small section from the book “Your Money or Your Life.” He had people (from the US and Canada) rate their “Happiness” on a scale from 1 to 5 (five being the highest.) They also submitted their monthly income along with their rating. What he found was that the average scores from the bottom of the pay scale to the top were about same (between 2.6-2.8.) He would also ask these people “How much money would it take to make you happy” in seminars and 50-100% or participants would always reply “more than I have now” (aka never enough.)

Anyhoo, here’s how the life rating went/goes:

Select the list that most closely applies to your life now:
[ol][li]Uncomfortable, tired, incomplete, frustrated, fearful, frequently lonely, angry, need love, insecure[/li]
[li]Dissatisfied, seeking, not enough, relationships could be better, coping, getting better, not very productive, need reassurance[/li]
[li]Content, doing OK, average, sometimes happy sometimes blue, stable, normal, few risks, fitting in[/li]
[li]Happy, growing, satisfied, productive, relaxed, free of tension, time available, fun, secure[/li]
[li]Joyous, enthusiastic, fulfilled, overflowing, ecstatic, powerful, making a difference[/li][/ol]

This is one site out there on the web: www1.eur.nl/fsw/happiness/

I’m am on an everlasting quest to keep happy at in the top slot of my priorities (and convince others to make it theirs as well :smiley: )

2

I have no money and I am pissed off today. But I have a sneaky suspicion that if Miltownkid were to give me all his money I might get that smile back on my face. :smiley:

3

My happiness is conversely proportional to my material wealth.

Prior to coming to Taiwan I had it all, and i was the most miserable prick you could ever have the misfortune to meet.

Fastforward to Taiwan…I’ve gone from a five bedroom house with three bathrooms, and a garage, on a quarter acre lot to a small studio apartment. Clothes notwithstanding, my possessions have been reduced to a bicycle, a computer and an old scooter held together with duct tape.

I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. :bouncy:

4

Money and happiness are always gonna be tied together. People see their value or ablities to do or having things closely related to money. Having money bring security. You can feed yourself, clothe yourself, do things for yourself independantly.

Having lots of money(Trump $$$) means you can exercise a certain amout of power. People always seek to have power.

5

I need money. :notworthy:
I dont want to be "just"his friend.
:hubba:
I need :heart:

6

[quote=“DesperateHousewife”]Money and happiness are always gonna be tied together. People see their value or ablities to do or having things closely related to money. Having money bring security. You can feed yourself, clothe yourself, do things for yourself independantly.

Having lots of money(Trump $$$) means you can exercise a certain amout of power. People always seek to have power.[/quote]
But they (money and happy) are (IMO) falsely tied together. Haing security, feeding and clothing oneself does no take very much money. It’s all the added luxuries that do (Cars, Xbox360 :slight_smile:, HDTVs, large houses, clothes, etc.)

I think Trump $$$ is a STUPID amount of money (stupid as in just way too much.) In my mind Trump isn’t much more powerful than “your average” millionaire. Actually, to me, he isn’t as powerful as someone who knows what enough means to them (assuming he’s not someone like that, he might be though.)

7

I think you’re right in the sense that “I want more” inevitably leads to feeling like "I don’t have enough.

But, not having enough money to meet your basic needs and live reasonably well is surely not the most happy state either.

8

Achieving financial independence (no longer having to work to support yourself and your family) means it becomes your CHOICE to:

  1. Spend more time with your family / loved ones rather than at the office
  2. Do whatever you want with your life (many people are “forced” into a career due to financial considerations)… this is called self-actualization

Financial independence gives you the ability to completely change the way you live your life and opens up options that would be impossible otherwise.

I can’t see how anyone can argue with the above logic.

9

I don’t know about this “Trump is not powerful” thing. He can have people lining up for unemployment just by signing his name on a piece of paper. I know I can’t do that. Not that I’ve tried or anything.

If I have enough money to meet my basic needs, wants, and life goals, then I have enough. Unfortunately, I am no where near having any of those things met.

If money were an issue to my happiness, I would have stuck with becoming a biochemist instead of wanting to become a teacher.

10

I never thought much about money, but now that I have some, it’s nice to be able to get what I want, but it’s not like I want it ALL.

I don’t care much about power.

11

[quote=“Tyc00n”]Achieving financial independence (no longer having to work to support yourself and your family) means it becomes your CHOICE to:

  1. Spend more time with your family / loved ones rather than at the office
  2. Do whatever you want with your life (many people are “forced” into a career due to financial considerations)… this is called self-actualization

Financial independence gives you the ability to completely change the way you live your life and opens up options that would be impossible otherwise.

I can’t see how anyone can argue with the above logic.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with that logic. Finding how much it takes to be financially independant is one of the tricky parts. Financial independance does not automatically equal happy either (though one would think it would.) I’m reminded of a Programmer from Milwaukee that died over weight and alone in his (extremely messy) house. He was a millionaire. No one said he died happy (quite the opposite actually.)

I understand that he is powerful in that he can do almost anything he pleases (buy this, that and the otherthing.) It’s just not the kind of power I care that much about. Lots of people are born into that kind of “power” but I wouldn’t label them powerful because of it. Power comes in many flavours. I like that “internal” stuff. I was reminded of a story when I read the Trump=$$=Power thing. I’ll go ahead and post it now.

[quote=“Zen Stories to Tell Your Neighbors”][url=http://www.rider.edu/suler/zenstory/nofear.html]Without Fear

During the civil wars in feudal Japan, an invading army would quickly sweep into a town and take control. In one particular village, everyone fled just before the army arrived - everyone except the Zen master. Curious about this old fellow, the general went to the temple to see for himself what kind of man this master was. When he wasn’t treated with the deference and submissiveness to which he was accustomed, the general burst into anger. “You fool,” he shouted as he reached for his sword, “don’t you realize you are standing before a man who could run you through without blinking an eye!” But despite the threat, the master seemed unmoved. “And do you realize,” the master replied calmly, “that you are standing before a man who can be run through without blinking an eye?”[/url][/quote]
Who is more powerful there?

12

That Zen master sounds like a real dumbass. Suicide is not the path to enlightment. They left out the next part of the story, where the soldiers chop the head off the old fool and then go about their business of raping and pillaging. The Zen master story becomes a humorous anecdote soldiers tell while swilling sake around the campfire. I wonder if the Zen master would have been so calm if the general had threatened to have him buggered up the ass by his hairest, horniest soldiers. I bet the old Zen master would have blinked then. It’s clear the general is the more powerful. The old man is just senile.

Money is important to me because, like most people, I do not wish to work. I’d love to sit around watching DVDs and eating Cheetohs all day, without having to worry about paying the rent. I most likely won’t be able to live a life of leisure until I retire, and the problem with that is that by the time you get to retire, you’re too old to enjoy it.

Sure, you can say that money isn’t important, until you don’t have money for a change, and then you suddenly change your tune. Being unemployed and having no money sucks. Slaving away at minimum wage and coming home at the end of a hard day with mere pennies sucks. Girls won’t look at you if you don’t have money. Become financially successful and even if you’re as ugly as Donald Trump, you get to bang a harem of supermodels.

13

Reminds me of what Pacino said in Scarface.

14

Reminds me of what Pacino said in Scarface.

Ya but you forgot the part where he wanted to screw his sister then ends up dead after snorting a mountain of cocaine. He had no power. No control.

Ya Know who I am? Say Hello to my wittle fwen!

15

[quote=“mod lang”]
Money is important to me because, like most people, I do not wish to work. I’d love to sit around watching DVDs and eating Cheetohs all day, without having to worry about paying the rent. I most likely won’t be able to live a life of leisure until I retire, and the problem with that is that by the time you get to retire, you’re too old to enjoy it.[/quote]

:notworthy: :notworthy: :bravo: :bravo:

And since we’re on the quoting movies , here’s a classic one from [color=darkblue]“Office Space”[/color]

[quote]Peter Gibbons: What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Lawrence: I’ll tell you what I’d do, man, two chicks at the same time, man.
Peter Gibbons: That’s it? If you had a million dollars, you’d do two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Damn straight. I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I had a million dollars I could hook that up, cause chicks dig a dude with money.
Peter Gibbons: Well, not all chicks.
Lawrence: Well the kind of chicks that’d double up on a dude like me do.
Peter Gibbons: Good point.
Lawrence: Well what about you now? what would you do?
Peter Gibbons: Besides two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Well yeah.
Peter Gibbons: Nothing.
Lawrence: Nothing, huh?
[color=darkred]Peter Gibbons: I’d relax, I would sit on my ass all day, I would do nothing.
Lawrence: Well you don’t need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Just take a look at my cousin, he’s broke, don’t do shit.[/color] [/quote]

Or this one:

[quote]
Peter, Michael, and Samir around copier
Peter Gibbons: Our high school guidance counselor used to ask us what you’d do if you had a million dollars and you didn’t have to work. And invariably what you’d say was supposed to be your career. So, if you wanted to fix old cars you’re supposed to be an auto mechanic.
Samir: So what did you say?
Peter Gibbons: I never had an answer. I guess that’s why I’m working at Initech.
Michael Bolton: No, you’re working at Initech because that question is bullshit to begin with. If everyone listened to her, there’d be no janitors, because no one would clean shit up if they had a million dollars.
Samir: You know what I would do if I had a million dollars? I would invest half of it in glorious mutual funds and take the other half over to my friend Asadulah who works in securities and
Michael Bolton: Samir, you’re missing the point. The point is you’re supposed to work out what you
[printer starts beeping]
Michael Bolton: “PC Load Letter”? What the fuck does that mean? [/quote]

16

Money? Love it or hate it, you need it. That is to say if you want more out of life than living under a bridge. Sad but true.

Myself, financial independence… Hmmm… That would mean having enough money to do anything I want right now. Having enough that I don’t have to do the work I don’t want to do. Having enough that I don’t have to worry that one day when I’m old I’ll be living under a bridge…

In the Novel Noble House by James Clavell one of the characters called it “drop dead money”. That is, having enough to be able to tell anyone to drop dead 'cos you don’t need anyone or there job opportunities for you to survive financially. So, if you had that and you were on the Trump game show/reality show The Apprentice and Trump said, “you’re fired!” You could say, “Yeah dude, whatever. Drop dead…”

17

[quote=“mod lang”]Money is important to me because, like most people, I do not wish to work. I’d love to sit around watching DVDs and eating Cheetohs all day, without having to worry about paying the rent. I most likely won’t be able to live a life of leisure until I retire, and the problem with that is that by the time you get to retire, you’re too old to enjoy it.

Sure, you can say that money isn’t important, until you don’t have money for a change, and then you suddenly change your tune. Being unemployed and having no money sucks. Slaving away at minimum wage and coming home at the end of a hard day with mere pennies sucks. Girls won’t look at you if you don’t have money. Become financially successful and even if you’re as ugly as Donald Trump, you get to bang a harem of supermodels.[/quote]
Strange… I can’t recall saying money isn’t important. I don’t remember saying anything like that. I’m merely pointing out the possibility that (having oodles of) money and happiness do not (always) go hand in hand.

Because money is also a part of the topic, I will explain further the premise in “Your Money or You Life” (YMOYL) about money. Basically, it is a persons goal to first find the amount of money you need to spend to be fulfilled/content/happy (and not a penny more or less, if you know what I mean.) For some people that might be 30,000NT/month for others it might be 300,000NT/month. You find this number (according to the book) by tracking all of your expenses and reviewing them at the end of the month. Then there’s a little formula for evaluating how you spent your money and you decide where to increase and decrease (maybe you spent too much on DVDs from blockbuster and not enough on porn.) Do the same thing month after month and things should pan out to a number that’s good for you (and keeping you happy.)

This monthly sum is your answer to the question “How much money would it take to make you happy?” Now you would say (for example) 65,423NT/month instead of “more than I have now.” It is now your goal to save and invest until your investments are making you that much money a month. It is a that point you are financially independent and get to “do nothing” all day (or like me do BJJ, video games, computing, eMacking, etc. all day.)

The guy who wrote that book retired at 31 (that’s what the fuck I’m talking about :slight_smile:)

I understand the importance of money (a bit and am always trying to understand it more.) I agree that money is a good thing and it’s nice to have. I’m just saying that it doesn’t necessarily bring happiness.

I would explain what I get from the story but I think you already get my point. To each his own.

18

Money and power are fleeting without control. With control comes respect but that can go in an instant if you aren’t diciplined or lack self respect.

I’d rather make a healthy living doing something I enjoy without regret than to fake it or having to slang my way through life. That only leads to a bottle. Opps…I dropped my whiskey.

Oh CanaDUHHHH.

I’ve heard of my friends tellin me “It doesn’t matter how it gets done…it’s a matter of the end result” and I personally think that’s a load of horse shit. Money…I’ve had it…too much of it. The only way I can become proud of my earnings is if I’m doing something I love. You aren’t a man untill you own land. Northern Ontario…here I come.

Rant off

:blush:

19

When you take a look at the sort of boring, empty, blatant excess that is often involved not just in the making of money but in the spending of it, it isn’t really much of a leap to conclude that a lot of people with money are boring, empty, blatantly piggish, ultimately unhappy people. That much is obvious. What might not be obvious is that “some” people with very little or no money are some of the most fulfilled on the planet. To see that you’d have to travel to a place where most people are poor. What is really difficult is being surrounded by excess and a value system that glorifies it and remaining happy. That takes real guts.

And that’s one side of it.

On the other side is the satisfaction that people get from working. From conceiving of something, seeing it through and reaping the rewards. From having the power and freedom that money provides. I think that if I could have enough money to just do the work I wanted to do and live in a place with a pleasant environment I would be “happy” with that aspect of life. No amount of money however would put the slightest dent in the mass of memories and feelings, both good and bad, that constitute me, or you. Money just won’t do that. It won’t give you a better childhood, or a keener intellect. It won’t improve your appearance or go on a diet for you. It won’t put one foot in front of the other.

Money is OK but a slavish obsession with it is ridiculous and evidence of an empty soul.

20

Agreed.

There are many people in/on Taiwan working out of their fields. I for one feel this daily and seriously consider pack it up to hit the dusty trail. Money does not equal happiness.