No more super cold aircon in stores

Even if they pass the law, will they really do regular inspections? I don’t think so.

Good point. I heard driving over the red light gives fines too - haha … mostly not.
What about air con’s that can’t even be set to 26 C? Huge industrial ventilator fans only know something like “low, med, high” or might even have a analog scale without temperature mark… And even on smaller air con’s there’s no real “standard” what the 26 would mean as the sensors aren’t properly calibrated. In many offices the sensor even is directly at the air con, and while the room is ice cold, the air condition still thinks its too hot.

Well they have to start somewhere, if you don’t start you can’t get where you are going!

Thermostats are ancient, simple, cheap technology. I don’t believe that you couldn’t arrange to have one installed for a reasonable price.

Thermostats are ancient, simple, cheap technology. I don’t believe that you couldn’t arrange to have one installed for a reasonable price.[/quote]
Yeah, but most cheap, simple (not necessarily ancient ones) are also very inaccurate.
Not to mention it depends where in the room you are.

At least it’s a decent idea. Not just for saving energy…in summer you dress for summer, so I hate walking into a place (especially a restaurant) where the AC is cranked…you eat freezing your ass off, then walk outside and the difference in temp makes you want to puke.

It would take about an hour to work out a scheme for testing and monitoring, no big deal.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]It would take about an hour to work out a scheme for testing and monitoring, no big deal.[/quote] Yeah, but sadly doesn’t exist yet. If the Aircon industry (and people who install it!) would be forced to set certain standards for monitoring and controlling it could actually work. Until then it depends on many factors, level of humidity mostly. 26 C can be very cold if its wet enough. :slight_smile:

Germans !!! :smiley:

Of course you know that a bulk carrier when it docks in Keelung the SGS survey people have to measure the sea water salinity fore and aft and in the mid section of the ship to determine how much the carrier is carrying. But you guys would say it couldnt dock at all because the salinity cant be the same over the length of the ship .

[quote=“tommy525”]Germans !!! :smiley:

Of course you know that a bulk carrier when it docks in Keelung (Jilong) the SGS survey people have to measure the sea water salinity fore and aft and in the mid section of the ship to determine how much the carrier is carrying. But you guys would say it couldnt dock at all because the salinity cant be the same over the length of the ship .[/quote]
No, I don’t know. What is your point?
Read here if you think humidity doesn’t matter.
Acceptable Operating Temperatures
CSA Standard CAN/CSA Z412-00 - “Office Ergonomics”
Summer (light clothing) Relative Humidity 30%, 24.5 - 28 °C
Summer (light clothing) Relative Humidity 60%, 23 - 25.5 °C
Winter (warm clothing) Relative Humidity 30%, 20.5 - 25.5 °C
Winter (warm clothing) Relative Humidity 60%, 20 - 24 °C

[quote][i]When relative humidity is kept at about 50%, office workers have fewer respiratory problems (specifically in the winter) and generally feel better. Higher humidity makes the office feel “stuffy”. More important, it can contribute to the development of bacterial and fungal growth (especially in sealed buildings).

Humidity lower then 50% causes discomfort by drying out the mucous membranes, contributing to skin rashes. Dry conditions cause electrostatic charge on both office equipment and their users.[/i]
[/quote]

So, go ahead, enjoy stiffy > 60% RH shopping malls at 26 C and get sick :slight_smile:

These values are the same as recommended by the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Air Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) Standard 55 - 2004 “Thermal Environmental Conditions for Human Occupancy”. The recommended temperature ranges have been found to meet the needs of at least 80% of individuals. – not German I’m afraid :bow:

If I understand this correctly:
taiwantoday.tw/ct.asp?xitem= … CtNode=416

Then the law is about saving electricity NOT about making you more comfortable.
On the contrary it might even makes you sick if its true what NHS/CHS/WHO/etc recommends.
Its NOT just about temperature to have clean and proper, good feeling air.

Yes humidity is very important. I read that temperature wise the human body is very comfortable right at 25c. The dept stores and other large malls have been setting the temperature closer to 20c. This wastes electricity and is not actually comfortable either. So making them keep to 26c makes sense. Lets see how it all works out in reality. Maybe with all the inaccuracies and differences within the store and all that jazz they will have to later revise to “officially” 23 or something. But its certainly a step in the right direction.

MY point was , not to lose sight of the over-view by getting into minutiae .

[quote=“Big Fluffy Matthew”][quote=“bababa”]You guys all from hot places? Back home, if it is 26 degrees, I turn the air conditioner on.[/quote]That’s so true, 26 is hot side back home. We don’t even have air con. Best we can do is open the windows and turn the fan on.

Why does 26 feel cold here but hot at home? What’s that’s all about?[/quote]
And it’s hot here too! If they want to do something to help the environment, then maybe they should consider closing the doors or something!
I have never had to carry an extra jacket or sweater or anything to go into a store in Taiwan. They aren’t that cold.

I don’t agree with that. I’ve noticed that in Taiwan the a/c is quite often cranked up much higher than is necessary. On a regular basis I’m freezing my ass off in offices, meeting rooms, shops, men’s rooms (especially there!), trains and buses. I’ve often wondered why this is so, because even in the US which is world famous for its energy wasting lifestye, I’ve never encountered this problem when I was there on biz trips.

I think in Taiwan people are simply used to colder inside temperatures, because people grow up with a/c everywhere from when they are little kids and it’s taken for granted. That’s also the reason why people here often have no tolerance for hot weather even compared to say Europeans who come from moderate climates. Add to that that the people operating the a/c in public places and offices, etc, usually do not have to pay the electricity bill, so they think it’s “free” anyway. As a result there is a lot of energy waste going on. I think the new regulation makes perfect sense both for the environment and also for the people. I’m very glad about it.

[quote=“GC Rider”][quote]
I have never had to carry an extra jacket or sweater or anything to go into a store in Taiwan. They aren’t that cold.
[/quote]

I think in Taiwan people are simply used to colder inside temperatures, because people grow up with a/c everywhere from when they are little kids and it’s taken for granted. That’s also the reason why people here often have no tolerance for hot weather [/quote]
This has certainly not been my experience in Taiwan. My Chinese teacher would sit in a sweater shivering in a classroom I considered too hot. My students (children) would complain they were cold when any foreigner would be dripping with sweat. The Taiwanese I know seem to have no tolerance for cold weather.
Of course, it depends where the foreigner in question is from. Canadians generally are going to be more cold tolerant than the Taiwanese, and less heat tolerant. There were lots of days when my Canadian roommate and I would have the air conditioner on in our rooms, while our Taiwanese roommate would be wrapped up in a blanket, shivering, with the heater on in hers.

Sometimes it’s just best to set the a/c on dehumidify, on timer. Or the auto function, if it’s operational.

This is the most important piece of news I have read in nearly 20 years in Taipei. Thank God for this. Of all the things wrong with Taipei, I am so glad Taipei City Government has finally tackled the Number One Problem facing Taipei residents. The amount of airconditioning in shops.

I have having a large glass of champagne and toasting our wonderful mayor! Whoever he is.

Hao Linbong? or something. He’s really big on beautifying, that seems to be the major focus of his administration. He’s probably trying to do something concrete here.

Hes trying to put a good job in because TAipei City Mayor is one step away from being President.
Do well in TAipei and you can possibly be Prez in a term or two.

Lee Teng Hui, CSB and current Prez Ma have all been mayor of Taipei before gaining the presidency.

Also Hao being the son of a well liked General will help garner votes, especially among the wishenren.

I can’t compare anything to Europe since I’m not from there, but I don’t think you can really say that most Taiwanese grew up with AC from time time they were little kids. It seems to be a fairly modern thing here. Heck, many (most?) public schools don’t even have AC in the classrooms, especially the older ones.

I don’t think anybody has mentioned the possibility of stores rigging their thermostats so that it says it’s set to 26C, while it’s really set to something lower like 22C. I’m sure the calibration on those things could very easily be changed. If having a store that’s too hot will mean losing customers, then they’ll do what they can to change that. It’s very possible that 26C could be considered too hot depending on how it’s done in the store.

Most of them didn’t grow up with AC, that’s correct, it’s too expensive to use at home too much for most people. People would have used fans and there are absolutely no ACs in schools here. AC is seen as a kind of a luxury thing, something to be enjoyed and attract customers. Taiwanese seem to like this feeling too carting around a jacket and wearing long pants in the middle of summer. Some kids and city residents have grown up with AC in the home on all the time but that is the minority.

You can see the same phenomenon in the Phillipines, I have taken boat and bus rides there at something like 15C inside, 30 C outside, again the AC was touted as a great feature to be turned up full blast!

A lot of things Taiwanese have done over the last couple of decades haven’t fitted in with their environment, heavy western work suits and ties, concrete crowded buildings, AC stuck on everything , big cars in little alleys, incessant building of roads where none are neccessary. It’s been a race forward without thinking, a blind copying of other countries. Now, as Japan and other countries change, they are changing too. Sometimes they are even being proactive, but usually not…

Finally another not much discussed reason why AC is on so low in the office is that the bosses think it keeps the workers awake, more productive.