No place like Taiwan for offshore wind power?

In most places, renewables proponent is the center-left party. (Democratic Party, Labour Party, SPD).
The classical carbon burning proponent will be the center-right party. (Republican Party, Conservative Party, CDU)
Nuclear meanwhile could be either or neither.

Other side of the coin, CPC support both carbon burning and renewables for their agenda.

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Taiwan doesn’t have a center left party. Both parties are center right

Unless you are calling dpp the right party, which would be more accurate as they are more for burning fossil fuels

DPP kinda center left relative to KMT.

Nope not at all.

In fact that’s a wild statement to make. In terms of being fiscally conservative and pro-big business, you could make an argument dpp is more to the right

Fiscally probably. Pro business? No (all the hullabloo about China money. “No identity politics lets just make money”). Social issues? Lolz. Democracy vs autocratism? Uh huh. Enviornmental stuff? I mean how long should the list be before we can agree DPP is to the left of KMT?

Lai Pin Yu father just stepped down as CEO of a company in the most famous of cases

Indeed he did. What are your specific allegations and evidence about what corruption has arisen from or is connected to this company?


This is the case referenced in the attack ad. His name is Lai Chin-lin and the company/group is Yunbao Energy, which was founded in 2016. Lai was a DPP legislator during Chen Shui-bian era. His daughter is now a legislator. I believe I have read that he was involved in the drafting of some of Taiwan early renewable energy legislation. He is a long-term opponent of nuclear power.

He invested a relatively small amount in Yunbao and was elected Chairman (not CEO) by the shareholders. I’m sure the fact that he was politically connected was a major factor in the founder/major shareholders’ decision to elect him Chairman.

Another reason might be that the founder was convicted of doing unlicensed futures business for one client who he had a personal relationship with. The founder was sentenced to six months.

Yunbao Energy has grown rapidly but the sector is very hot. Yunbao has made political contributions to many DPP candidates. The senior Lai has too. None of these are enormous sums. Many large Taiwanese companies make political contributions. It is unfortunately not illegal but one can’t expect it not to happen unless the Legislature acts to prohibit it.

I have not seen any evidence that the senior Lai or Yunbao has done anything wrong and he has denied wrongdoing categorically. He has not been investigated, indicted, or convicted. Yes, he stepped down as Chairman recently. That was probably sensible since his daughter was being harassed and she is in a tough election. Also, a Chairman attracting a lot of political attacks is not good for business. So far it looks like a smart business and political decision.

The same appears to be true for Yunbao. Smart money set up a business to go into a highly regulated area where political connections and knowledge of the policy environment would be useful. They have prospered. Their competitors don’t like it. Nor does the KMT which naturally prefers the nuclear energy business because they profited off it greatly during the party-state era and are deeply invested and entrenched in it. Why play a new game on someone else’s home field?

Am I confident that Yunbao and Lai are clean? Absolutely not. But there needs to be evidence especially if your conclusions about an entire industry is premised on this one case. So let’s see what you have.

Google Searches and PTT

I just did a search for ‘Taiwan’s renewable energy industry’ on Google main and Google news. I’m afraid I don’t see any stories about corruption in the industry at all.

While PTT is entertaining, surely you don’t expect me to rely on it as a reliable news source.

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Absolutely disagree. Both parties are to the right.
Calling KMT pro-authoritarianism isnt serious. And I hate the KMT
Environment… please. Dpp are more pro fossil fuels

What social issues? Gay marriage. Yeah I think DPP have done well on this and one of the achievements of the Tsai leadership

But this is a recent thing. Ive posted this before. DPP was more social conservative than KMT before, which is why most of the older gays in Taiwan vote for KMT. Ma held the first gay pride parade in Taiwan in Taipei and gave money to gay groups to hold it. At the time it was the religious deep greens who attacked Ma for poluting society and destroying morals(which is why to this day that older gays hate the DPP).

As ive mentioned before, spoke to some Taiwan labor rights NGO and they hate Lai and blame him for forcing Tsai to cut public holidays and increase working hours. I mean you dont have to delve too deep into Lai’s history and quotes to see his positions(and also why labor groups hate him and worried about him becoming president).

These are my main issues with Lai and the DPP(too far to the right, too pro-big business) and not their cross-straits stances which roughly support.

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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm dig a bit deeper. He isnt the only one, there is a whole series of DPP-connected people with no connection to energy, getting huge contracts in renewables(allegedly)

You can believe whatever you want. I don’t really care. These are allegations, and rumors abound. Maybe the rumors are not true.

My original point was that DPP energy policy is a mess. Its a mess because Taiwan doesnt have enough power. I dont want to spend a week of dealing with whataboutery essays and 1+1=3 logic, so no need to repeat all that.

No I dont think its just KMT political attacks, but sure if that makes you happy then sure. I’m sure that they are taking advantage that society thinks the DPP is corrupt and nepotistic to their advanage, but thats politics.

I wish I could just see the world so simply as black or white(or blue and green in this case), would be easier.

I can only conclude that you have no specific allegations or evidence to support your assertions about systemic corruption in the renewable energy industry.

The Tsai/DPP renewable energy policy may have been a bad decision. Perhaps Taiwan made the wrong choice about nuclear energy We will find out soon enough. For now, we seem to have power.

My experience in Taiwan has been that whenever the Taiwanese government really gets behind a big project like creating an IT industry, the semiconductor industry, MRTs, high speed rail, difficult freeways and tunnels, submarines, fighter jets, or even nuclear power stations, there are many problems with corruption, public opposition, cost overruns and political fighting, and delays but things get done. I have no particular reason to believe that creating a renewable energy industry will be different.

There is no reason that a new administration with different policies can’t continue building out renewable energy and build nuclear power plants if it can overcome the considerable opposition in Taiwan to such projects.

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I’m sorry I don’t want to play this game.

If you think Taiwan doesn’t have energy issues then I envy the world you live in and that’s kind of it. Because it does

I think even Lai is backpedaling on the anti nuclear stance. I think even he sees that Taiwan needs nuclear power even if the people don’t like it.

Taiwanese will care MORE and the current administration will get into more trouble if electricity price goes to more than 5nt per kwh than if Taiwan just built 20 more nuclear plants.


Wind power has an upper limit on the wind speed, it’s not that more wind = more power. If the upper wind speed (around 55mph allegedly) is hit, then the wind turbine shuts down due to overheating risk, and damage to the blades. I can imagine the typhoons being an issue and knocking them out.

Not saying that wind power wouldn’t be good and effective for Taiwan, but compared to places like Norway, Denmark, and the west coast of Ireland, which has pretty consistent strong winds without the frequent typhoons/hurricanes, Taiwan isn’t “THE” place for wind power.

Suggesting installation of major wind farms in the Taiwan Strait sounds a bit like a fairytale provocation towards the Mainland, if anything. A bit like a neighbour planting a beautiful rosebush in your garden. The “community” is gonna think you’re an arse for ripping it up.

Or maybe I’m way off. Who :clap: knows :clap:

Renewables could make winter electricity demand, while nuclear being maintain for AC demand in summer.

Maximum production reached between average wind speed 12 and 25 m/s (I suppose it 26 to 55 mph).
After average wind speed 28 m/s, turbine will stop.

It could sustain up until 54 m/s, 60 m/s or 71 m/s gusts depends on design. Taiwan offshore installation usually demands sustain until 71 m/s gust. Low wind places like Korea or Vietnam onshore only required 54 m/s.

Note the different notation between average wind speed and gust.

Wind is so finicky, why?

It’s not like nuclear, it just chugs along 24/7 producing power, none of this too little wind or too much wind crap. So much wasted wind energy just because it’s too windy.

Yeah except for those pesky earthquakes and tsunamis which of course never ever happen on this island.

“Finicky” indeed. I’d say it’s more like complete blinkered denial of geological fact.


The easiest is to burn something.
Coal, oil, gas, trash, methane from biomass, nuclear reaction.
That is always the case since the beginning of time.

Except ash from burning gets released, but not nuclear, it stays at the plant. Even then it’s not a lot of ash for the amount of energy released, but even then the ash is still good because you only burned like 5% of the fuel.

You actually control the thermal output by controlling how much reaction in nuclear power plants.
The heat used to boil and create steam to turn steam turbines. It is also not always 100%.
The condensed water then recycled (cooled with help from sea water) again to create another cycle for steam turbine input.

How about that lovely Kenting beach with the nuclear plant and 3, very ironically placed, wind turbines in the backdrop.

We need to develop sustainable energy more. It’s not good enough yet, clearly. But neither were combustion engines 100 years ago.

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