What get lost? The “first time” feeling?[/quote]
No. :eh:
An experience that you’ve shared with many people is necessarily less intimate than one you’ve shared with only one, and intimacy is an important part of a marriage for many people. It’s one reason why some people would prefer that their friends not date their ex-girlfriends/boyfriends… Granted, some people are fine with that. But then again, some people engage in wife-swapping and swinging lifestyles, too. Different strokes for different folks…
Sex isn’t always just about sex - for many people, it has a deeper meaning. Surely you know that for hundreds of millions of people, from diverse cultures and varied faiths, abstaining from pre-marital sex is an important part of their belief system. Click here for a brief overview.
I may misunderstand this but it sounds that your friend equates any sex that is not part of a marriage has nothing to do with love. With that I would disagree.[/quote]
I’m not precisely sure how she’d answer that, so I won’t try to.
I brought it up more as a starting point – or continuation – on the notion of “something get[ing] lost” from Maoman’s earlier post. I see that he’s expanded on it already though.
I agree with what you’ve written that love does not necessarily equal marriage and vice versa.
I’m really sick of the Taiwanese belief that co-habitation/sex before marriage is immoral, also that being in a relationship without a marriage certificate is somehow less valid.
I have been with my boyfriend/partner/whatever, for over 8 years and love him very much. We live together here and are constantly being met with shocked responses when we mention our living arrangement to Taiwanese people. I know married people who are far less committed and happy than we are, but one of my students told me I could not possibly love my bf more than my family…not until I got a ring on my finger anyway !
My mother married at 18 (having no previous partners) and suffered a very unhappy marriage, she begged me to live with any prospective husband first. We both had previous partners prior to getting together and quite frankly I couldn’t bear the thought of going to bed with a 20-something man who didn’t know what he was doing.
I find the whole attitude to sex quite disgusting and immature here. Grown men openly view porn in public internet cafes, young girls try to dress-up like ‘Britney’ and you can easily rent a room by the hour, yet it is considered wrong to have sex in a caring relationship - that’s just perverse.
I don’t know if I could imagine spending my whole life being with someone and never having experienced anyone else. Is he good at it? Is he bad at it? Would sex with someone else be more enjoyable? Less enjoyable?
Eventually someone who chooses to wait for that one person follows one of two paths…they either ignore those questions (or never ask them) or they learn the answers.
I was one who was spoonfed all that “virginity is sacred b.s.” in my Christian upbringing…such as the slogans we could throw at our promiscuous friends like “I can be like you any time, but you can never be like me again” or “if you really loved me you’d wait” etc., etc. The truth is, I know of a few sunday school classmates who rushed into marriage, probably to have sex with someone they thought they loved, and at least two are going through divorce…before the age of 25. At least now they have a healthier idea of what sex is like so they’ll make better choices in the future and choose a better life partner without their perspectives being fogged by hormones. Or so one hopes.
I think abstinence should be put out there for kids as being a choice, not the only answer. Put whatever spin on it that you want…if you’d rather have kids wait, fine. Tell them that. But I have issues with making sex out to be this horrible, horrible thing and therefore nullifying any reason to give information about safe sex because they shouldn’t be having any sex at all…right? Right? Exactly.
It’s interesting what a crap shoot getting invloved in a relationship can be in Taiwan. If you live in the ROC long enough, and you have several relationships over the years, you’ll encounter all types - from totally unihibited nymphomaniacs to extreme prudes. The diversity of experiences is amazing.
I only had one relationship with a diehard virgin. Quite an interesting experience - but ultimately way too frustrating.
She was very attractive, and extremely sexy - in her own way. Amazingly, she was very very switched on to her body, and was highly orgasmic. And, as compensation for not “going all the way”, she had developed quite remarkable skills in other forms of pleasure (so to speak).
But, she was just not going to surrender the goods. And then there was the double whamy fact that she lived with her family & had a totally controlling mother - so in the 4 months that we saw eachother, there was never an opportunity to overnight together. (The whole issue of relationships that can lead to cohabitation vs. relationships that are hindred by the fact that your partner lives at home with conservative parents, could be an interesting topic on its own. In my experience it’s best to date someone working or studying in your city, with their hometown being hours away).
She was smart as hell, and lots of fun, but after awhile the relationship (despite the hot 3rd base action) ended up feeling so High School. I grew bored with it, especially with the stolen moments aspect of our intimacy.
I totally agree with all the other posters who said tenacious virginity is a complete waste.
The trend among young Taiwanese seems to be much more “open”, with even the younger guys not having that ridiculous double standard that they can fool around as much as possible, but when they marry it has to be with a virgin.
Let me be blunt and just come out and say it: What is even the point of having that kind of relationship if not for the sex? I already have plenty of platonic friends, of both sexes. I get all the intimacy and warmth and close friendship from my friends. So if I am looking for a girlfriend, I am by definition looking for more than just close friendship. Am I the only guy honest enough to admit it here?
[quote=“funkymonkey”]No sex before marriage? I didn’t know some people still had this belief!
Some women say that they won’t have sex until marriage, but in my humble experience, this changes after time. Let’s face it, women want it just as much as men! Keep at it and you can wear her down. [/quote]
Respect her decision. If you can’t do that then you are a crafty and selfish. If you don’t like it, leave, she’d be better off that way. Manipulation and games are for immature children.
Let me step up to the plate on this though… and risk a ribbing, but hey…
I made the choice that the first woman that I slept with would be the one that I married. I did just that and haven’t added any others to the list, and there hasn’t been a complete lack of interest from others either.
It’s about personal choice and you or anyone don’t have a right to make a judgement call on that OR try to pressure (persuade) someone into doing something that they don’t want to do.
Bassman, I respect your choice. I did not make the same choice, and I have no reason to regret it.
I believe that by fooling around when I was young and handsome, I managed to gain a lot of experience and learned a lot about life and relationships.
so there are pro and cons, but well… I see sex as a neccessity, and will always prefer to get that in a relationship. It’s the meat in the relationship as far as I am concerned.
I think the real issue is, or at least some posters are making it this way, that should one respect a person’s decision in this area or not? My answer is YES! We don’t have the right to make them go against what they feel is right, the consequence of this may not hurt you but it may well cause them serious emotional conflict.
If someone said that she was a lesbian and would only have sex with other women, would you try to talk her out of it just for the chance to get in her pants? Maybe you would, but most people wouldn’t, or perhaps some may find that exciting.
And now the flip side. I googled using the title of this thread and came up with the following, scary stuff. If I read all this and believed it… well, is it, no sex before and after marriage???
I totally agree with Bassman and the bragging of the number of girls one has made change their minds about their choice is disgusting (no names). It’s sweet that you made the decision to remain a virgin until you met your wife, but I am still entitled to my opinion that it’s irresponsible to tell young adults that abstinence is the only way to go until marriage and denying them what could be life-saving information should they decide to do things their way. Which is exactly what I perceive the Taiwan Bureau of Health is doing with its PSA’s about the “danger” a woman faces when she decides to have pre-marital sex…mental and emotional distress, being abandoned by the guy because he’s only in it for the easy sex, etc. Absolutely nothing about safe sex…only about no sex.
I agree with you on this one. People are only human and will continue to have sex. The desire to have sex is a powerful and very basic desire, most cannot, or have no desire to, control it. This too is normal.
Therefore it would be reckless to suggest that everyone should abstain and not offer any education on safe sex. The number of females in Taiwan who engage in unsafe sex is shocking. In this way Taiwan is reckless and should be ashamed.
Education should be given for all the options, including “no sex”. I also believe that sex should be taught as something enjoyable and exciting, not some “duty” of marriage. However, it is also not something that should be taken too lightly either.
There’s not much of a difference between sex and masturbation to me, aside from masturbation being completely hastle/worry/etc free, quicker, and allowing me to return to whatever it was that I was doing before hand…probably playing PS2 (imagine playing PS2 right after going at it with your woman ). Anyway, it seems that the less sex there is in a loving relationship, the better. Or, at least, in my opinion, sex should be viewed as something to do when you’re bored or wanting a child, not as the sole reason for being with someone. A wise man once said to me “There should be no sex with love, and no love with sex”…and I think that’s a beautiful way of summing up what I think. But, I think holding out sex until marriage just isn’t logical. If a girl said to me “I don’t want to have sex with you, because I’m not sure I want you to be the father of my baby”, I would a)instantly respect her decision and b)instantly fall in love with her for being logical. If a girl said “I don’t want sex until I’m married”…I’d think she watches too much TV or is a bible-broad, and thus, won’t want anything to do with her. So, anyway, sex, or lack therof, is nowhere near enough to keep me with or away from a girl.
"The president has been a strong proponent of school-based sexual education that focuses on abstinence, but does not include instruction on safe sex. "
I am all too aware of what Bush thinks of sex, but then banging Laura and winding up with kids like Jenna and Barbara, I could understand why he’d be against sex. I wonder of the Bushlings are still wearing virgin pins…
Anyway, I have had problems with this whole “abstinence until marriage and nothing else” way of teaching sex ed. There is nothing wrong with having moral codes, as long as you aren’t using them to ignore the inevitable…that young adults (and kids) are going to have sex no matter what you tell them.
Being taught abstinence only in a sex ed class would be like going to a swimming lesson and being told you could drown so don’t go in. End of lesson.
The only problem i have with abstinence is that it’s taught or more impressed upon as something ladies need to do…As if we have control over a man’s love handle? [All that does is reforce the mommy syndrome with some guys and suppress an necessary life energy. I hope the day comes when people learn it’s OKAY to make a choice just be responsible for it!!!
Yes that is the woman’s responsibility not the man’s. You do not understand what it is to be a man and have a man’s organ. To have such desires boil inside the blood. Woman’s desire is weaker and so it is her responsibility to stem fruition of desire. This is always how it has been and the ancients were wiser for keeping this true in all societies for thousands of years, but now you Americans say with your Sex and the City that the woman should be a man. Foolishness. Foolishness and whoredom.
I didn’t know some people still had this belief!
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