No to Cop Pay raise
For all the taxpayers out there, there is a plan afoot to raise Taiwan cops
No to Cop Pay raise
[quote=“brianlkennedy”]No to Cop Pay raise
For all the taxpayers out there, there is a plan afoot to raise Taiwan cops
I say pay the cops and pay 'em well. Poorly paid cops are notoriously good at putting on the squeeze. Pay them high and as jlick says, do some radical top down cleaning out. Make the police force a desirable occupation and not a second choce for someone just out of conscription.
Yeah, like 20% for any traffic violation they (rightfully) book.
$40,000 “handsome”? you’re joking right?
NT$40k is what a US educated MBA gets in a private company. It’s not a small sum for a local.
Yes, $40,000 is handsome for an entry level position. Ask your Taiwanese friends/coworkers. Most unigrads in Taiwan would be satisfied with a starting pay of 40k/month. Do these cops have to be unigrads? They probably also receive plenty of non-salary benefits, not even including the illegal ones such as bribes.
I don’t necessarily object to raising cops’ salaries. However, nothing else is being done to cut down on police corruption. The government needs to use a stick and carrot approach. To get cops to stop taking bribes, they’ve got to give them financial incentives to do so. However, at the same time the government needs to crack down harder on corruption. Hong Kong has dealt with this pretty successfully. HK cops are paid quite well, probably too well after the economic downturn. At the same time, Hong Kong has the Independent Commision Against Corruption (ICAC). They don’t just act as and internal affairs department for the police. They monitor all parts of the government for corruption. It is much more effective than anything Taiwan has. Of course there is still corruption in the force, but we see a lot of cops getting busted for bribe taking and/or collusion with triads. Taiwan also needs to do a better job of educating people about corruption. It can’t just be another six month campaign. This type of civics education must be long term and gradual. I don’t think we’ll see any real reform in this area by a DPP government. They are afraid (probably rightfully) of alienating the police. I actually think the KMT will be more effective, but only marginally so.
I don’t see how rasing their saleries will turn them into decent honest people. It’s not a matter of money, it’s a matter of they just don’t care. Ever watched a “policeman” direct traffic ? Ever gone up and asked if it’s legal for those cars to go through a red light ? Answer=Yes. Or if helmets are compulsory ? Answer=No.
I have never met a “policeman” who didn’t lie. Bad experience ? Maybe, but why do I always come across the bad ones ?
I used the word “policeman” in quotes, because I don’t consider them to be policeman. Real police care about people and the community.
If I stand on the street and wave down a police car, shouldn’t they stop ?
Where I come from, the police are frustrated by lenient courts, buried under paperwork, or just not given the resources they need, but at least I feel they CARE.
I would trust a British policeman with my life. I wouldn’t trust a Taiwanese one with my lunch money.
[quote]They are afraid (probably rightfully) of alienating the police[/quote]And of alienating criminals. Remember Chen Shui-Bian’s unoffical “Vote for me if you don’t want to wear a helmet” campaign ? The KMT have had long enough to try to make it better.
Anyone seen the wonderful new “public service announcement” at the movie theaters recently about how wonderful the Taipei police force is, and how they’re so devoted to helping the public and preventing crime? At first I thought they were starting to show short little comedy sketches before the main feature, but then I soon came to realize that they were actually serious …
They must be the bottom of the barrell to only command that kind of salary . A good school would command X2 , X3 or higher than that.
And I think that is the point with the police pay too. You pay peanuts you get monkeys. Pay a decent salary to attract quality & weed out the dead wood.
My only interaction with the police here in TW was actually very positive.
My car broke down out in the back of beyond. A police car came past .The guy helped me move the car to a safe place off the road, tryed to fix it, when he couldnt ,he called a mechanic , gave me a lift back to the station , gave me water & snacks , called me a taxi to get home (the car was not fixable on the roadside). And for all this …no charge.
I’ve had pretty good experiences here with cops as well. I called the cops on a neighbor who was harrassing me just about everday and they did everything short of knocking the idiot into the stone age. Cops at another station offered to help me get my bike fixed up and take me to the hospital after a hit and run. One even offered me sexual favors at a police station once, but I declined.
The only bad time was when some military policemen pulled a machine gun in my face at the intersection of Tunhua/Chunghsiao when I was 20. Their car had been at a red light and I was on my scooter next to them and I was looking in the window, very curious to see what they were looking at on their laptop in the back seat.
Scuba wrote[quote]My only interaction with the police here in TW was actually very positive.
My car broke down out in the back of beyond. A police car came past .The guy helped me move the car to a safe place off the road, tryed to fix it, when he couldnt ,he called a mechanic , gave me a lift back to the station , gave me water & snacks , called me a taxi to get home (the car was not fixable on the roadside). And for all this …no charge.[/quote]Good job Scuba. But my two bad experiencies and zero good still leave them wanting, but who’s counting.
My guess is that the police are not.
A pay raise may be in order if certain conditions are met. Honestly, I don’t think the public has any more control over the police than the criminals do.
This is a recommendation through the OAIT to recommend sweeping reforms of the law enforcement personnel on Taiwan.
Here are a few of the recommendations made by people.
- Random urinalysis testing.
- Random polygraph testing.
- Instituting a reward system to the general public for reporting traffic and criminal violations.
- Institute a call reporting number for every telephone call for assistance.
- Identification badges worn by all police at all times giving their names and numbers.
- Initiate a police oversight commission as a an NGO.
- Relinquish traffic enforcement responsibility to a private security company.
- An abuse of power hot-line for the general public to lodge complaints.
It is believed that these kinds of reforms could bring the police in Taiwan up to international standards.
At the very least it would allow for the police to get their raise and save the government a lot of money in the process.
$40,000 NT isn’t much in Taiwan, consider if you have loans, car payment and a lazy wife whom doesn’t work and 2 teenagers that spend a fourtune on clothes.
Also, cops in Taiwan doesn’t have the authority and power. (I am talking about an image) I mean you can get by with a lot of stuff if you are nice to them. They do all the dirty works that nobody wants to do. But on the other hand, US cops look very mean, firm and professional when they are talking business. I am very scare of them… and don’t asked me what I did…
I think that the only way to successfully use higher pay as an incentive toward greater professionalism is to find some way to end the corruption. The problem, of course, is that the corruption is institutionalized. Who is going to clean it up? The only group of people in Taiwan tough enough to do it is the retired ah mahs and a gongs. Give them guns and badges, and send them in !
Most people on entry-level salaries are young - at the very oldest late twenties. The ppl on with the lazy wife and the 2 spoiled brats are likely to earn a fair bit more - and as the boys in blue have additional income from extra-legal tax collection, raises gathered over 15~20 years of service etc, I would not worry too much about their economy.
An engineer with 20 years of experience will be on somewhat more.
In Denmark, the average entry-level wage for a college graduate is NT$100k, but that’s not much as living expenses and taxes are higher. That young guy who earned that when he graduated, will be earning double, when he has 20 years of experience. I have 1 friend, who’s been working 6 years. His salary is 50% higher now than it was when he started out, and he’s a public sector employee, so it’s still a bit lower than in business.
I feel that the police here are well enough paid for what they do and who they are. The qualifications for the job aren’t exactly high, and a lot of those guys would be driving taxis or gravel trucks and earning substantially less if they hadn’t joined the force.
Like many other posters, I’ve generally found the police here to be friendly enough, and I’ve certainly never been hassled by them, but I just don’t have much faith in them to do a lot of the work they’re supposedly employed for.
When I first arrived in Taiwan, I had a couple of girlfriends whose dads were policemen. I was rather surprised at how well off they were, and wondered how they could afford to live in such nice homes. Now, of course, I understand it all too well.
i am all for pay raises for cops. they deserve NT$100,0o0 month to start with. bribes will disappear if they paid better. i love cops. they deserve better. and i hate lawyers
[quote=“formosa”]… and i hate lawyers
Why, thank you, Formosa! And I always thought you were quite well disposed toward me, Tigerman, Sharky, Mother Theresa, Brian Kennedy, and others of our profession who post on this forum. It’s saddening to learn that you harbor such ill feelings towards us.