Australian, New Zealand, Canadian, British and U.S. universities are admitting more and more non-native English speakers to graduate and undergraduate programs. In the states, our science and math programs are often dominated by foreign students. It is said that this is because local students aren’t measuring up in maths, so the universities are drawing talent from elsewhere. In countries like the UK, Australia or New Zealand, universities need the cash that full fee paying foreigners pay.
Many of the foreign graduate students I have met in the States are technically/vocationally competent in there fields. Their math skills are usually more than sufficient for an American PhD in engineering, physics, etc. I don’t doubt that they are bright people. However, most of them can’t write. I have often wondered how these people could possibly write a well argued, persuasive dissertation in English. Some of them are fully aware that their written (and often spoken) English is not at the same level as their knowledge in their field of study. Some of them don’t care. Some of them think that their English is just great and that they excel above the dumb local students in every way.
I’m wondering what people here think of this. Should universities in native English speaking countries require that their foreign graduate students be able to write well? In the States, a lot of tax dollars go to foreign students in the form of grants or assistantships. My thinking is that if they are going to get government money to study, they should at least have English language skills that will enable them to contribute to the corpus of their field. In my opion, letting a foreign graduate student with poor English into an Engineering program is the same as admitting a local with poor math skills. If a local’s math skills weren’t good enough, he/she would have to spend their own time and money to brush those skills up. Is it right to expect foreign students to do the same with their English skills?
[quote=“mod lang”]1) As most graduate students are paying their way through grad school & learning the ropes of their profession as an apprentice teacher;
in fact, so much so that in many colleges most undergraduate courses are taught by T.A.'s;
students need to understand what the hell their teacher is saying;
so foreign graduate students should be required to read, write, and speak English at an acceptable level.[/quote]
Ok, how should universities address this problem? Do they really see it as a problem? Since so many course are now vocational in nature and a university education in many countries is no longer necessarily a liberal education, I guess it’s no surprise that nobody seems to notice or care that most foreign students can’t write.
Mod Lang, I seem to remember you mentioning that you had worked/taught in a few universities or colleges in the US. Was there much discussion about this topic? At my university, everything hinged on TOEFL scores. If an undergraduate scored above the required level, then they didn’t have to take any writing courses except the same English comp courses that everyone else takes (which they usually JUST scraped through). In my opinion, ALL non-native English speaking graduate students should have to take a graduate level composition course regardless of what their TOEFL/IELTS score is. These exams are pretty useless for determining if a foreign student will be able to write with the precision necessary for graduate level work.
My idea is that universities should establish special writing courses for foreign graduate students. There could be separate courses for students in these general fields: applied sciences, physics/math, biology/chemistry, business and humanities/social sciences. I think these course should last two semesters and should be done in the first year of graduate study. If students can’t pass them, they fail out. Does anyone know of any universities that do anything like this?
Jive, you make some good points and suggestions for improving writing. Compulsory composition courses - specialised if possible - would be a great thing. When I was helping MA students with their dissertations, I was shocked at the general standard. You mention scientists, though: In my experience the writing of the scientists and engineers was easier to read - and edit - than that of the business school students, for example.
You mention money and tax dollars. I think you will find that overall, foreign students pay far more money into universities in the countries you mentioned than they recieve in the form of grants from those universities or countries. This is especially so in the case of business-related courses. While I believe that more grants are available for studying science, at least in the UK, this is because too few British students study sciences and it is hoped that the foreign students will stay and contribute to the UK economy.
I taught in exactly one university, when I was a T.A. teaching Comp 101. The problem with foreign T.A.s being unable to communicate effectively with their students was substantial enough that they introduced a new criteria on student evaluations of teachers:
“7. Speaks clearly understandable English”
or something like that.
Not all graduate students should be T.A.s, I think. I’ll admit that I was one of them - my first job in front of a classroom and I had no clue what I was doing. Someone who can barely speak English has no business teaching in that environment. I can barely speak Chinese; do I have any business teaching Biology 101 to students in Taiwan (even if I actually knew anything about the subject)?
Agree with ML on the dot. I used to have T.A.s being foreign and doesn’t speak good, clear, understable English makes it very hard to comprehesive the materials. Most (not all, of course) of the graduate students are international students therefore the only job they can find / held will be a TA at school. Lots of them used it as an oppt. to learn English but we, undergrad students, ended up being victims because of it.
JT. lots of universities are accepting more and more foreign students because their tuitions are higher, therefore that is how most of the school makes money.
When I was an undergrad, I always ended up with foreign TA’s for subjects like Calculus and Statistics … my two worst subjects. The language barrier made learning even more difficult. However, now that I’m studying Chinese literature here, I doubt they would ask me to be a TA in the Chinese Department no matter how good my Chinese might be … they just couldn’t grasp a foreigner teaching Chinese literature to Chinese … hehe My literary Chinese isn’t bad, I’ve studied the entire Taiwanese highschool Guowen curriculum, as well as university. I’ve been toying with the idea of seeing if I can get hired as a private tutor for Guowen (I’m certain that my Guowen is better than the average Taiwanese junior high or high school students). The tutors who make the most money and get jobs most easily are the Chinese Department grad students from Shida and Taida (where I am), so I don’t see why just because I’m a foreigner I shouldn’t be able to teach that kind of stuff … any way, we’ll see …
My literary Chinese isn’t bad, I’ve studied the entire Taiwanese highschool Guowen curriculum, as well as university. I’ve been toying with the idea of seeing if I can get hired as a private tutor for Guowen (I’m certain that my Guowen is better than the average Taiwanese junior high or high school students). The tutors who make the most money and get jobs most easily are the Chinese Department grad students from Shida and Taida (where I am), so I don’t see why just because I’m a foreigner I shouldn’t be able to teach that kind of stuff … any way, we’ll see … 