Not living in Taiwan

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

A question: How do former long-termers in Taiwan deal with not living in Taiwan? What do you miss the most? But not wishing to limit the question to former residents, who may be few on the ground in this forum, I’d like to ask what the rest of you would miss if you went back to your places of origin?

I lived there for seven years, my wife is Taiwanese and we both currently do translation for a living. That, and the very fact that I’ve joined this forum and post once a day, is evidence enough that I have strong ties to “a ilha formosa.” By all rights I should be living there still. Yet I’ve been back in Canada for coming up on four years now, and my wife is but a year away from gaining Canuck citizenship. So here we remain. For now.

What do I miss? The Chinese-speaking environment. Granted, Southern Ontario stands alongside greater Los Angeles as one of the most Chinese-speaking areas in the world outside of Asia, but it’s not the same. I also miss the frenetic pace of life, the streetlife, the food-at-all-hours, certain segments of the expat community, the hot weather, the lack of a need for a car, and on and on. And I still get misty-eyed thinking about our trip back last June – I got to watch all of the World Cup at my favourite pub!

Oh, there are compensations to living here, to be sure. Toronto’s legendary ethnic diversity means that there is no end to the culinary offerings to be had, and the different languages and colours and types of people walking along the street are a positive delight to behold. Hell, on the day Saddam’s statue was toppled I went to my favourite Iraqi lunch counter for a kebab and to observe the guardedly optimistic atmosphere (though the boss himself was jubilant) (sigh…is this getting too political? maybe I should edit this part out? Ah, what the hell!).

Back to the topic at hand, I find what I really miss most is Taiwanese people. A banal assessment worthy of National Geographic, I admit, but it’s true nonetheless. While I’ve enjoyed getting to know mainlanders from all over China since I’ve been back, and the younger kids show no compunction about expressing their admiration or ambivalence about Taiwan, there just isn’t that connection there. The other day my wife and I had a pleasantly slow Saturday afternoon meal at a “Hunanese” restaurant run by an older Taiwanese gent who has actually led Toronto’s mayor on Chamber of Commerce-like trips to Taiwan to drum up business and relations. After our meal we chatted with him for almost two hours at an open window at the front of the restaurant, the warm breeze fluttering the table-cloths, going over politics, culture, family, etc. It was so, well…warm and comfortable.

I’ve rambled a bit here, but my excuse is a slow work day. Which it might not be if I were back in Taiwan?!

Sigh.

2

To be honest, one of the things I like most about living here is the expat community. Don’t laugh! This is no put down of the locals, and this notion that the expat community is more interesting applies equally to the folks from back where I came, who are also less interesting, IMO.

That is, the expats I meet here, at least the ones who decided to come here without the corporate package, i.e., the ones who came on their own, are generally a facsinating bunch. I don’t mean for this to be a big congratulatory slap on our collective backs, but, the fact is, all of us here are just a bit odd, misfits, if you will. But odd in a generally good way.

When I am back in the States, its fun to visit with old friends and family. But I soon begin to crave conversation with the other oddballs back here, with whom I have much more in common.

3

I didn’t miss it one bit. I didn’t miss being scared for my life by just going outside, I didn’t miss being hit by traffic countless times. I didn’t miss having no rights because of where I’m from. I didn’t miss working in an enviroment where everyone speaks the same language (I don’t mind working in a Chinese enviroment, but can someone tell me how the hell I’m supposed to cope with working in a Taiwanese enviroment ??) I didn’t miss working for a boss who can’t understand why I can’t work 12 hours a day, or a boss who won’t let to go to my familes weddings or funerals despite working there for 7 years, said it was impossible and illegal to give me time off even thought others did.I didn’t miss being a paid a third of the going rate. I don’t miss a place where people don’t know the difference between right and wrong. Nope, didn’t miss any of that at all.
I know what you’re going to say, “if you don’t like it, leave.” I can’t.

On the other hand, I’ve been away so long, I don’t even know where home is anymore

4

[quote=“tigerman”]To be honest, one of the things I like most about living here is the expat community. Don’t laugh! This is no put down of the locals, and this notion that the expat community is more interesting applies equally to the folks from back where I came, who are also less interesting, IMO.

That is, the expats I meet here, at least the ones who decided to come here without the corporate package, i.e., the ones who came on their own, are generally a facsinating bunch. I don’t mean for this to be a big congratulatory slap on our collective backs, but, the fact is, all of us here are just a bit odd, misfits, if you will. But odd in a generally good way.

When I am back in the States, its fun to visit with old friends and family. But I soon begin to crave conversation with the other oddballs back here, with whom I have much more in common.[/quote]

Odballs of the world unite and stand your ground. With all apologies to johnny mar. Great post Tiger. I’m with you on this one.

Of course I would miss the “Re Nao”, and be pained by having my children grow up up far from those who know them, the mixed marriage, and all the pains incured therin (immediate family and best friends back home excluded).
Chou

5

[quote=“tigerman”]To be honest, one of the things I like most about living here is the expat community. Don’t laugh! This is no put down of the locals, and this notion that the expat community is more interesting applies equally to the folks from back where I came, who are also less interesting, IMO.

That is, the expats I meet here, at least the ones who decided to come here without the corporate package, i.e., the ones who came on their own, are generally a facsinating bunch. I don’t mean for this to be a big congratulatory slap on our collective backs, but, the fact is, all of us here are just a bit odd, misfits, if you will. But odd in a generally good way.

When I am back in the States, its fun to visit with old friends and family. But I soon begin to crave conversation with the other oddballs back here, with whom I have much more in common.[/quote]

Odballs of the world unite and stand your ground. With all apologies to johnny mar. Great post Tiger. I’m with you on this one.

Of course I would miss the “Re Nao”, and be pained by having my children group up far from those who know them, the mixed marriage, and all the pains incured therin (immediate family and best friends back home excluded).
Chou

6

[quote=“tigerman”]To be honest, one of the things I like most about living here is the expat community.
[/quote]
Yeah, I miss that hugely, as well. Once you weed out the poseurs you find real gems: the Belgian artist and sports sunglasses designer with the Euro-minimalist house; the 35 year-old Liverpudlian jogger and cyclist scarfing down a six-pack of beer and three packs of ciggies a day who had bought a ticket to Colombia at the age of 16 after watching a “drug movie,” and hadn’t stopped travelling since; the guitar player from London whose band opened for Sonic Youth on one of their English tours; the English designer and history buff who holds the patent for cup holders in patio chairs; the former CIA operative and diver who once ran an illegal bar and spoke Chinese perfectly but with a thick Texan drawl; and the Oxfordian who supplemented teaching with juggling in a clown costume in the night markets throughout Taiwan who sadly died of melanoma last year. And all this in a smaller city in southern Taiwan.

There is nothing resembling this sort of expat community here in Canada (or, more precisely, nothing that my wife and I have the opportunity to tap into). Nevertheless, my wife finds herself drawn more to the “foreigners” here than the locals, as there is the shared experience of coming from another place that makes for an immediate conversation starter.

7

Interesting thread, porcelainprincess.

Do you mind if I ask a question? (And feel free not to provide detailed answers.)

I take it that you live in Tornto now and do translation work for a living. Are you translating from Chinese into English? English into Chinese? Please don’t take offense, but is it possible to make a living doing this in Toronto? I guess that I never imagined that there would be enough for work to support two people, especially with the higher cost of living (compared to Taiwan) in many north American cities.

Kudos to you (and your wife) if you are able to do this. I know translators (mostly freelance) who struggle to make a living here in Taiwan.

I have always thought that one of the things that attracts many of the oddball characters to Taiwan was the relatively low cost of living in some places (I know that living in Taipei is not cheap). Some people enjoy living in Tainan because they can have a huge place at a low price, teach a couple of hours a week, and have plenty of time to pursue whatever interests them.

Once again, great thread. Just curious about how it is to live in Toronto–money-wise. Or perhaps you find Toronto cheaper than Taiwan.

8

Both. I into English, and my wife into Chinese. One always translates into one’s native language, and anyone who claims otherwise is either one in a million or a fraud.

Ninety-five percent of our work comes from the U.S. With the advent of the internet, location is unimportant. It’s time zones that really matter now, as clients often like to call us during business hours to see if we can do jobs. Financially, doing it freelance means that you never know how things will go from month to month. The two of us made US$15,000 in May, but in January we only brought in US$700.

But the key thing is, we are our own bosses. :laughing:

Rates are low in Taiwan.

We’re actually living in a smaller, cheaper city outside of Toronto. It would be less expensive to live in Taiwan, to be sure, but our American clients would find it cumbersome waiting for hours on end to receive emails and the like.

9

Thanks for the reply, porcelainprincess.

That is great. It must be nice to be your own bosses–though I am sure that it also means a lot more pressure at times, too.

Just out of curiousity–I am not in the field at all–did you work here in Taiwan first as a translator? Or in mainland China? Or were you over here studying?

Once again, let me say how great I think it is that you and your wife are able to make a living at this and be your own bosses.

Maybe you can work it out so you can come back to Taiwan for a visit (say during the cold winter months in Canada) and work here for a couple of months at a time. I understand that you need to be in closer time zones, but perhaps if you could set up a few big projects, then you could get your “Taiwan fix” for a few months of the year.

Anyway, I think that you and your wife will be able to work something out. It is great to have such a portable skill. You could probably even travel and try to do some work–but I can imagine that clients can be pretty demanding and want things done very quickly.

Back to the original topic, the first time that I left Taiwan with my girlfriend, the thing my we missed most was the food. We once went to a big supermarket and looked at all the giant-sized fruits and vegetables. They were all shiny and the prices were low–but the taste. The taste?!?

“Qing cai” --all the good ones – di gua ye, A cai, kong xin cai, jie lan cai, and so on–were not available or didn’t taste the same.

So, that’s what I missed–and now I’m back here–fat, drunk, stupid–and happy.

10

ever noticed like 90% of chinese americans (with chinese parents, g-parents, etc) speak cantonese rather than mandarin…the m-language, which I have studied extensively, is almost completely worthless in LA, with the exception of monterey park possibly

11

Unless you work/live in a particular enclave in LA, the only really useful language after English is Spanish. But I do hear Mandarin many places. Of course, I also hear Korean, Armenian and any number of other languages. Still, a short drive to Monterey Park and the surrounding communities is the next best thing to a long flight to Taiwan.

I, too, miss the oddball foreigner community. And being able to jet around town in taxi’s. LA is such a sprawling place that you have to drive everywhere. And there is no such thing as one particular “hot spot” where you could find the types of foreigners you’d meet in Taiwan (if there is, please do share!).

My husband feels rather odd here. He’s Taiwanese, living in the US now, and been working almost exclusively with mainland Chinese business people. Lots of dinners in Alhambra. (By the way, he does a lot of translating for his company - in-house - and he does a little freelance when he’s got time.) A different kind of culture shock.

I really miss how easy it is to get a job in Taiwan teaching English and to be able to save money. I’m not in such demand here and finding work takes a lot of work and luck. I do enjoy all the opportunities for continuing education here, though, whether it be hobbies, personal improvement, graduate degrees or whatever.

Being with my husband certainly has helped a lot because otherwise any time I want to share about anything in my life in the last five years in Taiwan, most people just yawn and have no clue what I’m talking about. Someone to get excited with when you find firm tofu in the general supermarket. Things like that.

12

I started out doing editing and a little translating part-time, but I didn’t throw myself into it completely until we got back to Canada. I’d actually applied to go to teacher’s college with a view to teaching high school – I am so glad I didn’t get accepted! (competition’s stiff here, and my grades from ten years ago didn’t cut it).

The working holiday concept is nifty. We’re thinking that once we get set up with laptop computers we’re going to go down to Mexico for a few months and try it out there. The only problem I can see is that ideally we’d like to have about 15,000 pages worth of paper dictionaries along with us, which can get heavy.

Not true anymore here in North America. In the last 5 or 10 years Mandarin speakers have gotten thick on the ground due to immigration and the influx of students. Even back in 1996 I was able to use Mandarin all over L.A., and you’d be surprised how many of those 70 year-old speakers of Cantonese who immigrated at the age of 20 can speak Mandarin.

13

just to let you know, porcelain is slang for toilet in some parts of america, I didnt know if that was intentional or not. case in point: american slang such as “worshipping the porcelain gods” and “hugging porcelain” slang for puking in a toilet while drunk