Noticing Other People

It’s funny Loretta that you mention this topic about being polite and courteous, and leaving after your satisfied. Usually what I see is that a family just eats and then talks afterward or just spends some good quality time together, sometimes watching the T.V. together. Either way, people in Taiwan like to relax a while after their meal, can’t blame them right?

Americans quickly finish eating and it’s time to go, no sitting around and chatting/relaxing. They have stuff to do.

But you know what, what’s really interesting is that your topic is about being considerate of others. Perhaps the Taiwanese should behave more like you do in restaruants:

[quote=“Loretta”]

was undercooked as predicted. I tried to be polite.

Ten minutes later I had my head in my hands. "They’re doing it again. They’re cooking me another meal. They will fuck it up. I guarantee it.

I want my lunch. Cooked.

The new, piping hot, meal was - as predicted - undercooked

So I stopped being nice. I banged the table, raised my voice, cut the offending meat with the back of my knife and made a scene that horribly embarrassed my friend, but finally succeeded in making him pay attention to the problem. His response was that the temperature was correct - ie that there was no problem - which only served to annoy me further. He offered me yet another meal, and I had to point out that I had now been sitting in his restaurant for 45 minutes and so far he had not given me any indication that his staff were capable of cooking a piece of chicken properly. Doing it again would produce the same result.

I want this food. Cooked. For longer. Finally he got it and five minutes later everything was as it should be. Aside from the fact that someone forgot to cook my food in the first place, the problem was that nobody stopped to think about what I actually wanted when I started complaining. They just did what seemed right to them, and didn’t fucking listen until I forced them to. So far so clear…

The question asked was “how can I get my food delivered in a satisfactory state, as quickly as possible, without having to get angry?” and the replies have all failed to answer this question.

As was mentioned in another thread recently, the actual information content of your communications doesn’t seem to be as important in Taiwan as in western countries. . My question is how do you make people pay attention at the times when it’s important that they do so in order to achieve some specific goal in a hurry? [/quote]

Thank god the Taiwanese haven’t become completely western. I’d really be worried if they did. And if they were in my country (America) I’d be worried if they could even fit through the door (assuming they became truly American by joining the mighty ranks of the obese).

Unless you’ve been asleep the past month you have seen generosity, civic-mindedness, goodwill, consideration for one’s fellow man, etc, exemplified to the highest degree by ordinary people in Taiwan.

How ridiculously petty and insulated can you be to call the taiwanese selfish after the spontaneous and overwhelming help and donations offered to typhoon victims? Volunteer firefighting and rescue teams have risked their lives; students have gone down to help donation centres, animal rescue groups went out to help stray dogs and cats; ordinary people are sending what they can; giving what they can with no thought of a reward or thanks for themselves.

Just let the people be people.

Yes, there has been some generosity of both time and money after the Typhoon. It has been a nice surprise to see people help out.

I don’t think this is the topic of this thread though. You could likely take any random person that gave money and they would still have a problem noticing other people.

Sorry if some people cannot admit it, but the truth is Chinese culture is completely selfish. It doesn’t really take too much to notice it if you have been around the world and have lived and experienced other cultures. It’s quite obvious.

This being said, in some ways, Taiwan has actually started to evolve a little bit and is, in many ways a step above the mainlanders. For example, in Taipei, most people actually understand that it’s wise to allow the people to exit the MRT before you push your way on. Take a short flight over to Shanghai and ride the MRT. It’s a bloddy Chinese fire drill.

Noticing other people is simply not taught or valued in Chinese culture. It’s partly from not caring and being downright rude, and it’s partly from just not being aware. For many, ‘tunnel vision’ is a chronic and inescapable lifelong vision problem. I honestly think they are simply not aware that other people exist and may also want to walk, enter, exit, or whatever the case may be.

Being crowded is not the cause and is a lame excuse. You can go to a small town in Taiwan and people still do not notice other people or give a shit about them.

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Remember this quote next time you see a scooter gang kicking the shit out of someone.

Right on, Homey! (always wanted to say that :slight_smile: )

Through roundabout conversations with many colleagues, here’s my conclusion.

In Taiwan, if you are not a family member, friend, customer, supplier, or colleague… there is no reason to acknowledge or accommodate you in any way.

Sure it seems rude and selfish when compared to Western norms.

Although, if you are taught this behavior from childhood and never experienced anything else, why would you change?

:popcorn:

[quote=“Mucha Man”]Unless you’ve been asleep the past month you have seen generosity, civic-mindedness, goodwill, consideration for one’s fellow man, etc, exemplified to the highest degree by ordinary people in Taiwan.

How ridiculously petty and insulated can you be to call the taiwanese selfish after the spontaneous and overwhelming help and donations offered to typhoon victims? Volunteer firefighting and rescue teams have risked their lives; students have gone down to help donation centres, animal rescue groups went out to help stray dogs and cats; ordinary people are sending what they can; giving what they can with no thought of a reward or thanks for themselves.[/quote]

How’s the view up there?

There’s been an outpouring of help, not some. If it’s a surprise to you, you have just argued my point above.

Why not ask that of the others who are quite clearly writing that they feel superior to everyone around them? I am just trying to argue that people’s perceptions are wrong, and frankly a bit dickish coming as they are at a time when the Taiwanese have shown great awareness of the people around them who are not family, friends, clients, etc.

Why not ask that of the others who are quite clearly writing that they feel superior to everyone around them? I am just trying to argue that people’s perceptions are wrong, and frankly a bit dickish coming as they are at a time when the Taiwanese have shown great awareness of the people around them who are not family, friends, clients, etc.[/quote]

Nah, they were running into me and walking backwards into me waaaaay before the typhoon.

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When I see all these accusations of “the Chinese” having tunnel vision, or they don’t do things the way EYE want them to or whatever, I see the rantings of a blinkered selfish fool with tunnel vision. :laughing:

[quote=“Mucha Man”]Unless you’ve been asleep the past month you have seen generosity, civic-mindedness, goodwill, consideration for one’s fellow man, etc, exemplified to the highest degree by ordinary people in Taiwan.

How ridiculously petty and insulated can you be to call the taiwanese selfish after the spontaneous and overwhelming help and donations offered to typhoon victims? Volunteer firefighting and rescue teams have risked their lives; students have gone down to help donation centres, animal rescue groups went out to help stray dogs and cats; ordinary people are sending what they can; giving what they can with no thought of a reward or thanks for themselves.[/quote]

Yeah I completely agree. One of my students - a ten year old kid - donated $500, out of his life savings of $1500. Nothing to do with pressure from his parents either, rather, it simply reflects the values of his upbringing.

He’d be the same “selfish little bastard” blocking “your way” in 711.

[quote=“Thelonlieste”].

He’d be the same “selfish little bastard” blocking “your way” in 711.[/quote]

When did I use the B-word? Anyway I was joking… I was talking about adults rather than kids…

Why not ask that of the others who are quite clearly writing that they feel superior to everyone around them? I am just trying to argue that people’s perceptions are wrong, and frankly a bit dickish coming as they are at a time when the Taiwanese have shown great awareness of the people around them who are not family, friends, clients, etc.[/quote]

Sorry, I wasn’t picking on you MM. It’s just that your post came off a bit hoity toity and to use a recent natural disaster to try and prove a point about manners and politeness seems a bit awkward to me.

Anyway maybe I should say “perceived manners and politeness” or “societal manners and politeness” because making sweeping generalizations isn’t fair. But for the record I still stand by my original statement that population density has the largest influence on behavior in Taiwan.

If other people want to attribute discomfort in their daily life to local culture or education then I’ll leave that up to them.

There are some real stretches of fuzzy logic here, lately.

Donating a few 元 to help towns recover after a disaster and cutting in line at 7-11 are not linked in any way.
EDIT Removed moderator-like comments.

Hey, Kaiwen, we have rules about back-seat moderating!

but thanks for saying what needed to be said.

[quote=“urodacus”]Hey, Kaiwen, we have rules about back-seat moderating!
but thanks for saying what needed to be said.[/quote]
Thanks for “noticing” urodacus. :sunglasses: I’ll abide.

Quite right. So strike the “fools” part of my post. I’m sure not ALL of them are. There again, I’m kind of at a loss as to how we can discuss Western stereotyping of Chinese without pigeonholing.
By the way, nobody ever cuts into line in front of me. Never.

Quite right. So strike the “fools” part of my post. I’m sure not ALL of them are. There again, I’m kind of at a loss as to how we can discuss Western stereotyping of Chinese without pigeonholing.
By the way, nobody ever cuts into line in front of me. Never.[/quote]

Me neither.

(Phew, almost had to squeal on you there, sands. Name-calling like that cheapens the internet for all for us.)

Quite right. So strike the “fools” part of my post. I’m sure not ALL of them are. There again, I’m kind of at a loss as to how we can discuss Western stereotyping of Chinese without pigeonholing.
By the way, nobody ever cuts into line in front of me. Never.[/quote]

Me neither.

(Phew, almost had to squeal on you there, sands. Name-calling like that cheapens the internet for all for us.)[/quote]

Fair enough. sandman’s got me there.

Welcome to the party Buttercup. Starting to wonder if your computer was on the fritz.

[quote=“kaiwen338”]

Welcome to the party Buttercup. Starting to wonder if your computer was on the fritz.[/quote]

I’m around. Writing summin. This thread has been done before. Shrug.