I signed an agreement with my part-time company (they do not hold my ARC) that I would pay $NT10,000 for each class of each course if I quit before the course was finished. My husband and I want to go home one month early as the tenants have given us notice that they are vacating our house at home three months early. We’re trying not to take the financial loss but it looks as if I may incur an even greater loss if I quit the courses early.
I have a copy of the agreement I signed but the employer’s signature is not on it. I wonder if I should get some advice from a lawyer.
Hi folks. Just wanted to correct my subject line. It’s outrageous but I signed an $NT10,000 per class per course agreement. I could be quitting early as many as 12 classes for each of 2 courses. That means I might have to pay $NT120,000 penalty! Is it possible?
Depends on how honest you want to be, and how honest they are.
“Of course” they are withholding the appropriate taxes for this (likely illegal!) part-time work, right??
In actual point of fact, most agreements in Taiwan are the product of later negotiation between the parties. The problem is that it’s hard for an outsider to know what to reveal and how to negotiate to get the maximum benefit. I’d consider how far ahead of you they are on the payments. I doubt there’s much they can do to you in terms of giving you real trouble if you’re leaving Taiwan anyway (a very liberating thing to do from an employment perspective, trust me on this one!) and anyway if that is only a part-time job it’s 99% likely they are hiring you illegally. So it comes down to whether or not they have good connections. I’m not saying they would get into any trouble (obviously) even if they don’t have connections because after all they are Taiwanese and you aren’t.
Do you have a trusted Taiwanese friend who might know them a bit and could give a more to the point answer for you? It’s impossible to say what would be the best thing to do because all bosses are different (although they do mostly share striking similarities!)
They aren’t withholding any taxes. I get paid in cash for the whole thing.
I spoke to my contact person in the office about going home and not being able to complete the courses. She said that if I can get a replacement teacher for the two courses, there shouldn’t be any withholding of my income. She’s aware of my situation and will try to find other teachers for me. As long as she does, I shouldn’t lose any money.
You need to check with BOTH the boss and the “contact person” in the office. They may have very different viewpoints about this. I’ve never heard of this kind of penalty. Maybe it is because you’re a good teacher, and if that is the case, then simply finding a replacment won’t cut it for the boss.
I’ll refrain from giving my personal opinion about you basically breaking your agreement for now.
They’re hardly going to chase you to the airport are they? If you’re going to renege on your agreement then surely you could just do a runner!
But it would be cheating, and not very nice… what will actually happen to your house if you go back a month later? (two months after the tenants have moved out anyway, presumably?)
It’s not a matter of just doing a runner, I think – sounds like it’s a matter of not losing NT$20,000 or more in “penalties”.
I find it interesting that a company that has you working illegally is making conditions…but then again, it’s difficult to “threaten” them with this and you would have to be very, VERY careful if you chose to go in that direction. That said, it doesn’t sound like you’ll have much problem finding someone to do the last month of classes for you, if the school is willing. Angle it so that you are helping the school by introducing a great new teacher who might just work for them long-term. Of COURSE everything you are doing is for the benefit of the school and the boss, and of COURSE you are going back to your country because of some dire family emergency, not just because tenants are moving out early…right??
She, an adult, OF COURSE, signed the agreement and now wants to jump out of it for other than professional reasons. Why make her feel better? I’m sure the school owners don’t feel good about it.
And who knows if the substitute teacher will be as “honest” and “helpful” as she has been.
I agree with your take on the situation – given Western cultural mores.
In Taiwan…well, sometimes things are different. For example in the West it is honest to say “No”. In Taiwan, the “code” is to say “I’ll do my best” and then fail to deliver.
If someone is hiring me illegally and ripping off the government, I’m personally going to feel myself empowered with just a bit more leeway to “wiggle” in the direction of Taiwanese business culture than if it were my visa job with a straight-up company. But I may have been in Asia too long, which is why I came back to the US and am now obeying all relevant laws and regulations to a “T”.
Well the whole thing’s illegal, the job, the contract, the penalties, the lot.
By doing a runner i.lady I meant waiting until the day they got their salary and leaving without saying goodbye. Like I get paid on the 20th of the month so if I left then I’d be 10 days in profit
If it’s an illegal contract, the OP is “dicking” the boss out of nothing. The contract is a farce and not legally enforceable. Signing a contract with illegal clauses does not override the employment laws. The only person being “dicked” is OP by the employer. I’d say leave without warning if there’s any risk that the employer will try to invoke any of those illegal fine clauses.
I suppose JD Smith’s difficulty is that he thinks there’s illegal, and then there’s sort of illegal. Employing people illegally (and indeed operating a language school illegally) is in a sort of twilight zone, not properly breaking the law. Back home, it would be a bit like the difference between cheating on your taxes (which isn’t really stealing) and cheating on benefits (which is).
So this particular brand of crook is still entitled to be respected by employees, to collect his debts, and enforce his (illegally worded) contracts. Is that right?
Well I don’t agree. I think if you’re running a business illegally, you have no-one to blame but yourself if the secretaries run off with the take, the teachers with the list of students and the landlord with the furniture. No comeback at all.
For some reason this sort of grey area semi legality thing seems to be common here in Taiwan. It’s about time it was stamped out, and it’s particularly annoying when westerners, who should know better, are promoting it or taking advantage of it.
“For some reason this sort of grey area semi legality thing seems to be common here in Taiwan. It’s about time it was stamped out, and it’s particularly annoying when westerners, who should know better, are promoting it or taking advantage of it.”
And this is exactly what the OP is doing, is it not?
What makes you think that stamping out semi-legal schools could even be done? There are so many laws and regs for opening a school and so many ways to get around them. There is no one definition of legal, but “Legal for this particular school at this particular time.”
My argument here is not about the legal/sort of legal schools that exist, rightly or wrongly. This is not the West and I do not expect the way it is in Taiwan to change.
You already stated my point: The OP is taking advantage of the way it is, when she should know better, only because it suits her priorities. She is wrong and I don’t want her to feel that it’s ok to dick your bosses out of a signed agreement because she can. The school’s illegal employment is not the issue as it is commonly practiced and tolerated, as jay-walking or speeding are in the States.
Maybe the selfish-me business culture common in Taiwan is catching. Maybe I’m too old, but for me, a deal is a deal.
If the signed agreement is illegal and unreasonable, then breaking it is not wrong at all. Not all contracts are legitimate and enforceable. Not all contracts ought to be honoured.
[quote=“jdsmith”]If it’s illegal and unreasonable why the hell sign it?
So, maybe I should do that…see who signs an outrageous and illegal contract and then I’ll know who not to trust! lol[/quote]
Sometimes people sign under duress. Want the job? Sign here. BTW, just because something is written in a contract, doesn’t make it legal. Contracts don’t overide employment laws. Human slavery is illegal in most countries I’m aware of. Assuming you could get someone to sign themselves into slavery wouldn’t mean that contract would be valid.
Yes, if you have unreasonable or illegal clauses in contracts you can expect that people who sign your contracts will be less than trustworthy. The place I work at now has no BS in their contract, so I’ve always been decent with them. I’m leavng them soon (after more than two years with them), but I gave them a month’s notice and I’ll do a decent job for them right up until I leave. It would be a very different scenario if they had some stupid clauses to try and dink me for any unreasonable or illegal fines. In that case, I’d leave ‘em hangin’ and not think twice. Decency and trust are two way streets.
[quote=“smithsgj”]Well the whole thing’s illegal, the job, the contract, the penalties, the lot.
By doing a runner i.lady I meant waiting until the day they got their salary and leaving without saying goodbye. Like I get paid on the 20th of the month so if I left then I’d be 10 days in profit[/quote]
That would be great (in a Machiavellian sense), except I’ve never heard of a company in Taiwan that pays in advance. So, even waiting for the salary on the 20th, the teacher would giving the school 20 days’ free work. The teacher would never come out ahead in such an arrangement, even if there were no deposits or other things to consider. You get the previous month’s salary on the 20th of the following month, or the 5th or whatever, in most situations in Taiwan for just this sort of reason (not just foreigners, Chinese workers too!)
