Obama and NSA Surveillance

Great show on Obama and NSA surveillance:

The subtitles are worth a chuckle or two

Obama is good.

No, he’s an evil cult.

But he says big words, such as forebearance.
Which, truth be told is a secret key for dealing with all New Yorkers.

Commentary starting here is pretty funny.

youtube.com/watch?feature=p … kS8#t=771s

Yeah not as funny as this;

youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8

All presidents lie. It’s their job. The ultimate truth though is that the day America took sides in a thousand year religious war it doomed its democracy because democracy and religious fanaticism are fundamentally incompatible and Obama has just been overwhelmed by that truth.

If America wants a democracy it needs to get entirely out of the business of religious warfare, dismantle the Israeli Foreign Legion and get back to its principles of due process, rule of law and just warfare. The only alternative is an inexorable downward spiral into a full blown police state because a police state is the only bulwark which can hold back all the hatred and insanity religious warfare unleashes in otherwise sane, decent human beings.

Well, I just think those guys nailed Obama. Regardless of your political persuasion, there is no justification for the government listening in on your private conversations. Terrorism is just people being blown up; listening in on people’s private conversations is why people get blown up not the solution to blowing people up.

If you check the records, or read IHT today , you’ll learn that this whole structure began around 2001 (and earlier) when the Republicans and Bush was in office. Obama merely continued a process started years earlier.

I think everyone knows it started under Bush, though like fiscal restraint, Repubs only care about this because Obama is in power. Though sadly, Democrat support for the programs has gone up since Obama came to power.

However, Obama has certainly ramped up the program and deserves criticism for failing to both make the scale and scope more public, and attempting to reign it in.

If this had come out before the election he may well have lost though I suppose most people would understand that it would be even worse under Romney.

Glen Greenwald has some good writing on this including exactly how the admin is trying to smear critics and how the admin is lying that these programs are widely supported and understood by Congress. They aren’t.

This was an interesting interview. 3 NSA veterans speak out on whistle-blower: We told you so

It continues down the page with additional clips, and the discussion goes back to 2001. Also, related to this, Snowden reveals GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians’ communications at G20 summits

All of this should be no surprise. That the NSA is so incompetent they hire system administrators who have no formal qualifications, who can access all this information, which is not even bothered to be encrypted, who can copy and download FISA court orders, and take it to Hong Kong and share it with reporters. That, I would have thought they would have taken care not to see leaked to the public.

I don’t think Obama wants to rein it in. I think he is just playing along. In Australia there has been an interesting case involving drugs in sport where wire tapping was conducted on sports people. They had done nothing illegal on a technical level. They may have contravened sporting code regulations but they certainly had not been involved in illegal activity. Yet, the wire tapping has been virtually condone. It certainly hasn’t raised any interest in the intrusive nature of such a collection method. That to me seems abhorrent. It is one thing for sporting organizations to be cheating and quite a different issue for them to be illegally recorded. Think about the scandal that unraveled in England regarding the Murdoch press. That is at the heart of this issue. Fuck off and leave people alone. How information of this nature can be used is the critical issue. That is why a court order had always been required in the past. What is the point of acquiring information that cannot stand up in a court of law. It is like the old lie if you are not doing anything wrong what have you to worry about. Well, the first thing I would worry about is prejudice. If you can show me a single society that has no prejudice, you win otherwise forget it.

Sisyphus found that much out. As far as I understand, he is still rolling a stone up a hill.

See how far this link on the subject takes you:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/…wire-taps…/story-fncagcd8-1226577722534
The Murdoch press.

[quote=“Gman”]Yeah not as funny as this;

youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8[/quote]

That is FUNNY!

How 'bout that CHANGE!

:laughing:

Wait. It gets worse :doh:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/state-photo-id-databases-become-troves-for-police/2013/06/16/6f014bd4-ced5-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html?hpid=z1

Can’t say I feel a warm fuzzy when I contemplate the possible directions these programs could take in the future as technology and agendas mature. As if paranoid people didn’t have enough to worry about already

Safest assumptions in the new digital world:

  1. Anything you say in any digital medium will be overheard

  2. Any information you wish to keep safe must not be on a computer that is connected to the Internet

[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“Gman”]Yeah not as funny as this;

youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8[/quote]

That is FUNNY!

How 'bout that CHANGE!

:laughing:[/quote]

I don’t get you. You supported these measures when Bush was enacting them but laugh at the very same measures when Obama continues them. Desperate times.

Corey Booker for President. The only good and decent man in the spectrum methinks.

[quote=“Gman”]Yeah not as funny as this;

youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8[/quote]

[quote=“Tigerman”]That is FUNNY!

How 'bout that CHANGE!

:laughing:[/quote]

I don’t understand why some of you seem to have such difficulty in grasping the source of my amusement. :ponder: I’m not laughing at the measures.

Whether I did or did not support any of these measures in the past is not at issue. I didn’t buy Obama’s nonsense about Hope & Change. What I do find very amusing, however, is that many here actually bought into the Hope & Change nonsense, and as there has been very little change, and in fact Obama has instead often expanded on many of Bush’s programs, I am laughing at the difficulty some here seem to have in adjusting their anger and frustration at Obama.

I didn’t think this required an explanation… :idunno:

I want the government to be listening. And if you think they’re not, you’re a fool. (Cool side note, there is technology now that can turn on your cell phone from a satellite :slight_smile: )

[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“Gman”]Yeah not as funny as this;

youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8[/quote]

[quote=“Tigerman”]That is FUNNY!

How 'bout that CHANGE!

:laughing:[/quote]

I don’t understand why some of you seem to have such difficulty in grasping the source of my amusement. :ponder: I’m not laughing at the measures.

Whether I did or did not support any of these measures in the past is not at issue. I didn’t buy Obama’s nonsense about Hope & Change. What I do find very amusing, however, is that many here actually bought into the Hope & Change nonsense, and as there has been very little change, and in fact Obama has instead often expanded on many of Bush’s programs, I am laughing at the difficulty some here seem to have in adjusting their anger and frustration at Obama.

I didn’t think this required an explanation… :idunno:[/quote]

Some people don’t really get boundless cynicism. So thanks for the explanation. As a side note, it must be a really white and barren place inside your mind. So tired, so lacking in hope, so blase about mankind’s potential.

Of course you had no problem believing in the glory and hope and change to the Mid East that was going to come from the end of a gun barrel.

[color=#0000BF](Comment removed, Mick)[/color]