Obama camp downgrades the Republic of China

""Senator Obama welcomes the Bush Administration’s decision to notify Congress concerning the package of weapons systems for Taiwan. This package represents an important response to Taiwan’s defense needs. This action is fully consistent with U.S. obligations under the Taiwan Relations Act. The sale helps to contribute to Taiwan’s defense and the maintenance of a healthy balance in the Taiwan Strait. Senator Obama looks forward to fully reviewing the notifications and the accompanying justification of the Department of Defense.

"Senator Obama strongly supports the reduction of tensions between China and Taiwan, and commends China’s President Hu Jintao and Taiwan’s President Ma Ying-jeou for their efforts in that regard. A strengthening of Taiwan’s defenses will not undermine the process of reduction of tensions and can actually promote it.

“Senator Obama regrets that China has responded by suspending military-to-military exchanges with the U.S. and nonproliferation talks. These discussions are in the interest of both sides, and should be resumed,” said Wendy Morigi, national security spokesperson."

The Obama camp downgraded the Republic of China, and it’s elected representative by calling it “Taiwan’s President Ma Ying-jeou”. This is outrageous, as clearly, it downgrades the Republic of China to just the Taiwan Region, completely forgetting about the other 34 provinces, the SAR of Hainan and the Regions of Mongolia and Tibet. As of today, never a US President or candidate has been to the point of neglecting the Constitution of the ROC, and to even admit that there is another China whatsoever, including one with a President (someone by the name of Hu Jintao). This is clearly a blatant mistake by the Obama camp, and the people of China will stage daily protests in front of the Taipei Main Station urging for all the Americans who are resident in the Republic of China not to vote for Obama.

The Presidential office will call the Embassador of the USA in Taipei to discuss this matter, as it is clearly diminishing the image of the Republic of China, it’s elected President and all the Chinese people around the world.

very subtle, mr bouncing elephant, very subtle! :dance:

Which is why TP section need to be renamed ROCP section in order to elevate the Republic of China nomenclature.

WTFAYTAACD?

He’s just following State’s guidelines. He IS going to be the next president, after all.
And forgive me if I’m wrong on this, but aren’t the Dems traditionally far LESS pro-Taiwan than the Republicans?
The Taiwanese should just be glad he hasn’t followed Ma’s own choice by calling him “Mister Ma, head of Taiwan.” :laughing:
Anyway, what’s Taiwan complaining about? After all, they’ve got THE PRESIDENT OF GUATEMALA!!! attending the 10-10 celebrations. No other heads of state, unfortunately, but hell… GUATEMALA! The actual PRESIDENT!!!

You are missing the point… Obama called The Republic of China as Taiwan… There is no mention at all to China or Chinese on the name… it is completely absurd that someone as knowledgeable as the people in Obama’s camp don’t know that 100% of the people in Taiwan are Chinese, one way or the other… How can you not be Chinese if your ID card says you are Chinese?

Has President Ma Ying Jeou ever lied? Don’t think so, whatever he says is the truth, the whole truth so help him Confucius…

Let us all remind that:

a) “Taiwan is the Republic of China” - Ma Ying Jeou
b) “China is part of the Republic of China” - President Ma Ying Jeou

What we see here is the difference between Mr. Ma and President Ma. As we can all see, it is not the same person.

Another example:

a) “633” and “We are ready!” - Ma Ying Jeou
b) somewhere around 3-4,4+,1-2 and “It takes time” - President Ma Ying Jeou

No I’m not. You, however, are. :laughing:

What I mean, of course, is that Obama is running a campaign for president of the biggest fucking gang in the world. That gang has a set of official guidelines for referring to Taiwan. Mr Boogie, do you SERIOUSLY think he’s going to totally waste his time finding out about how best not to piss off a tiny section of the population of a tiny frigging banana republic on the other side of the world – one which has ALREADY been more or less totally eclipsed by its giant neighbour, which is actually an important entity on the world stage?
Or is he more likely to just take the State Department guidelines and use those?
Talk about a frog in a well! And you’re not even a local! You’re the frog that actually used to HAVE a clue before he jumped into the well and now you’ve forgotten all about it. :roflmao:

gosh I guess that my sarcasm post was too much…

I made the thread after reading the China Post, what do you expect me to write… I still feel nauseous from reading that newspaper… but I tried to post it like a good journalist from there (or editor) would write it…

But it is funny to see one little thing about that speech -> officially, it recognizes that there are 2 countries (umm… only countries do have Presidents, I guess), one being China and the other Taiwan. And it totally flunks whatever Ma has been saying about the Republic of China and the special relations or, as we just saw, affirming that China belongs to the ROC. We are all waiting for the Martial Law to be upheld next (maybe when the ARATS dude comes in) and we will be back 20 years…

Not really, “president” can also be the leader of certain sub-national region. For example, in the US there’s parish presidents as well as borough president for New York City, not to mention organizations, companies, unions, and universities all have presidents too. In any case you’re reading way too much into the speech if you need infer thing like that from a small detail. It could be a slip of the tongue, especially when he already referred to Hu as president in the same breath. I’ve seen mainland media accidentally referred to Taiwan as a country before.

I think your point of referrence is off still. The US State Department POV is that ROC and PRC are two entities that still have a disgreement from the Chinese Civil War. While at the same time trying to enact the PRC containment policy in light of the fact the USA owes about 500 billion USD to the PRC.

Think the “Great Game” of Cold War II, except for the fact no one wants to play “evil empire role” with the USA. So by default the US became the expanding “evil empire,” unbeknownst to itself of course.

These views are from the average Taiwanese that felt the US Far East Policy have always been lacking since the Philippine occupation.

Do you really think the US cares about the money they own to China? What is that, pocket change?

They are too busy making sure their pockets are all full while the little people living over there goes another day trying to survive… How much the US owns to the Wall Street bankers to be hostage from them?

As for the President thing - Only Countries have presidents -> Regions, Provinces and so on don’t have Presidents. Unless you want to say that Taiwan fits into any of the categories you put in there, you can eat whatever you said.

Companies, clubs, and student organizations have presidents as well.

What’s a few hundred billion among friends is what you are saying?

[quote=“mr_boogie”]
But it is funny to see one little thing about that speech -> officially, it recognizes that there are 2 countries (umm… only countries do have Presidents, I guess), one being China and the other Taiwan. And it totally flunks whatever Ma has been saying about the Republic of China and the special relations or, as we just saw, affirming that China belongs to the ROC. We are all waiting for the Martial Law to be upheld next (maybe when the ARATS dude comes in) and we will be back 20 years…[/quote]

You seem to think this means something. All it means is someone in Obama’s camp who put this together couldn’t care half enough to worry about the exact wording, the priority of which right now is about the same as if I am gonna have chaofan or fried chicken for lunch tomorrow. They will realize their mistake, and have a good laugh over it, like it really matters ha! They are just sticking to the line, which is engraven in stone since god knows when until something comes along big enough to change it.

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“mr_boogie”]
But it is funny to see one little thing about that speech -> officially, it recognizes that there are 2 countries (umm… only countries do have Presidents, I guess), one being China and the other Taiwan. And it totally flunks whatever Ma has been saying about the Republic of China and the special relations or, as we just saw, affirming that China belongs to the ROC. We are all waiting for the Martial Law to be upheld next (maybe when the ARATS dude comes in) and we will be back 20 years…[/quote]

You seem to think this means something. All it means is someone in Obama’s camp who put this together couldn’t care half enough to worry about the exact wording, the priority of which right now is about the same as if I am gonna have chaofan or fried chicken for lunch tomorrow. They will realize their mistake, and have a good laugh over it, like it really matters ha! They are just sticking to the line, which is engraven in stone since god knows when until something comes along big enough to change it.[/quote]
I mean, really. A pissant little banana republic that most people have never even heard of unless they’re talking about cheap shitty umbrellas or silicon chips. Who honestly gives a fuck? Apart from the Taiwanese? And they hardly matter a fiddler’s fart in the grander scheme of things. Unless you buy into the shite spouted by the politicos and the rags here, of course – if you do, of COURSE you’ll be deluded into believing that Taiwan is the center of the universe rather than an completely inconsequential soup-stain in the Taiwan Strait.
Get real! :unamused:

I think the title to this thread is off. That is, I don’t think Obama is downgrading the ROC. I mean, this is Taiwan, right? And MYJ is president, right? And of course we know that this is not president of the local chess club. So calling him the President of Taiwan is an accurate statement. Plus, most people in the world have no idea what the ROC is, was and will be. But they know Taiwan, from “Made in Taiwan”, IC’s, and if they are liberal arts types, as the only genuine Chinese democracy in history. (Wish they were proud of that fact.)

I already told I was being sarcastic like hell… specially against all this crap now coming from Ma about the ROC this and Regions whatever…

Someone called this place by the right name, except that the KMT will never allow it to be called like that (they would loose their raison-de-etre…

1M people that will need to go through Sinification in order to assimilate properly to ROC, Taiwan. I recommend we start typing in Chinese from now on to help some of these foreign spouses along in their long path to Chinese acculturation… :slight_smile:

I am somewhat confused by reading this sentence about a “genuine Chinese democracy.”

Could you provide the dates, names/titles of documents, supporting paperwork, etc. etc. to back up your statement/inference that Taiwan belongs to China? I have never quite understood this point of view.

None of the Allies recognized any “transfer of sovereignty” of Taiwan to China upon the Oct. 25, 1945 Japanese surrender ceremonies . . . . so there was no “Taiwan Retrocession Day.” That the ROC has been conducting the administration of Taiwan since that time is not contested, but . . . . when has Taiwan been formally incorporated into Chinese territory via the provisions of Article 4 of the ROC Constitution??? Can you provide the references please? And the name, date, etc. of the international treaty whereby the ownership of Taiwan was transferred to a governmental entity in Taiwan?

Without these details, what you have is the ROC exercising “effective territorial control” over Taiwan, but not sovereignty. Hence, it would be incorrect and illogical to call this a “genuine Chinese democracy” . . . . . or have I overlooked something???

[quote=“Hartzell”]I am somewhat confused by reading this sentence about a “genuine Chinese democracy.”

Could you provide the dates, names/titles of documents, supporting paperwork, etc. etc. to back up your statement/inference that Taiwan belongs to China? I have never quite understood this point of view. …or have I overlooked something?[/quote]
Yes, as a matter of fact. There is more than one meaning to the word “Chinese”. “Belonging to China” is just one of them. :unamused: