Obama rules out new F-16s for Taiwan

No real suprises here - no F-16 C/D models, but we’ll let the vendors do the upgrades of the old air frames

Obama rules out new F-16s for Taiwan

[quote]“All we’ve been told is the president has made a decision, and I assume it will be for the F-16 A/B upgrade package,” said a senior congressional aide close to the issue.

The president decided against selling Taiwan 66 new advanced F-16 C/D model aircraft, despite several requests from Taipei and Congress, the officials said.[/quote]

And further…

And F-5Fs…such as the one which recently fell from the sky.

[quote]Taiwan’s air force currently includes 150 F-16 A/Bs and 300 F-4, of which 30 are considered airworthy.

Two other jets, the Taiwan-produced Indigenous Defensive Fighter and French-made Mirage 2000, are said by specialists to be of limited use.[/quote]

Money quote:

[quote]The aide noted that upgrading the older F-16s will required that up to a third of the Taiwan air force be taken out of service for modernization.

What will be included in the upgrade is not known.

The Pentagon’s latest annual report on the Chinese military says that China has 1,680 fighter aircraft, compared with 388 for Taiwan.[/quote]

Knowledgeable persons estimate the the PLAAF is conservatively estimated at double that number when other active military a/c are included.

Actually F-4 is a mistake there, they meant F-5. Sadly Taiwan probably could use some F-4’s.

Shit, when Obama visits China he better take an extra large tube of KY Jelly. He makes Carter look like a great president. Reagan must be doing backflips in his grave.

China has bought billions of US govt bonds and now effectively OWNS the USA govt.

You want to known one of the reasons? They don’t want the commies to know what their latest systems can do, Taiwan military is probably riddled with spies. If KMT keep closer relations to China that could happen without any spies involved.

but they never give taiwan the top systems anyway only dummied down ones.

It has been pointed out in this forum before, and it is worth repeating: newly manufactured C/D models, older airframes upgraded to C/D standard, or even acquisition of F-15C’s would make little difference. Most runways will be turned into craters in the first half hour of war by ballistic missiles, and none of these planes would be able to take off and land. The Taiwanese have not done much to remedy this problem. The only real solution is to adopt a strategy similar to that of Sweden late in the cold war. This would require development of STOL jets like the JAS-39 Griffin and “expeditionary” strategies that would allow a significant portion of the airforce to continue operating after the airbases are badly damaged and air superiority is lost. Taiwan would be on its own for such hardware since STOL-capable high-performance jets like the Griffin, Rafale and Typhoon are off-limits.

As gutless as I feel Obama is regarding Taiwan and the mainland, I still feel that selling the C/D models would have been a complete waste of money for Taiwan.

This thread should be titled: “Introducing the 45th President of the United States: Rick Perry

This deal had nothing to do with ‘protecting’ Taiwan or not, but rather a political reach by Taiwan to force Washington to take a stand on Two Chinas.

As for spying by the PRC and the possibility of releasing secrets by selling these jets? Bollocks.

The point is that the USA can’t sell anything ‘too good’ to Taiwan because if the weapons are ‘too good’, than they become a threat to the mainland. Taiwan is equipped with what they need to protect themselves from China; that’s all.

F-16 A/B with the upgrades are 20 years behind the F-22 Raptor of the upcoming F-35. They are, however, better than anything China has right now. selling C/D model aircraft would have not been a defense sale, but rather am aggression move and thus given China the right to heighten their military position in and around the strait.

The F-16 C/D sale was not a barometer for US support of Taiwan, but rather an over reach by the Chen administration to sabre rattle at the cost to the ‘current administration’s’ bravado.

China’s treasury holdings are more important to China’s stability than the USA. If China thinks ‘hurting’ the USA by jostling their investments is a advantagous approach, they are a lot more foolish, and a lot more stupid than I ever imagined.

The USA will never concede Taiwan. China will never ‘take back’ Taiwan. I don’t know what the end game is, but only a fool thinks the TRA is going anywhere anytime soon.

They really should retire those F5. OF the hundreds only what 30 are flyable? And they just lost 2 of them a few days ago. May not be mechanical but still those planes are older then the pilots flying them.

I am surprised the french havent stepped in and made a deal to take back the gremlin Mirage 2000-5 and do a deal for Rafale. France could make TRES buckeroos and they dont really kowtow to Uncle Sam too much.

Say 100 Rafale in return for the fifty odd Mirage (that they can sell to say Argentina) for 150 million USD a copy and Taiwan would cough up the cash. Especially since the french have paid back the billion or so on the lafayette case.

[quote=“tommy525”]They really should retire those F5. OF the hundreds only what 30 are flyable? And they just lost 2 of them a few days ago. May not be mechanical but still those planes are older then the pilots flying them.

I am surprised the french havent stepped in and made a deal to take back the gremlin Mirage 2000-5 and do a deal for Rafale. France could make TRES buckeroos and they dont really kowtow to Uncle Sam too much.

Say 100 Rafale in return for the fifty odd Mirage (that they can sell to say Argentina) for 150 million USD a copy and Taiwan would cough up the cash. Especially since the french have paid back the billion or so on the lafayette case.[/quote]

Actually, a few years back it was in the talks. In fact, it was said that they were going to use Rafale as a part of settlement for the Lafayette lawsuit. But then news got out, plus I think the Taiwanese military learned their lesson dealing with the french…

So now its all back to square one.

Way off. The French not only haven’t sold arms to Taiwan in a dozen years, they are the leading fear in Europe to balk at the weakly implicated EU arms embargo to the Mainland. The French love shoving dicks in their mouths, and the economic hand holding they’ve been flaunting with the PRC in the past decade has now become a teasing reach around just brimming to escalate into some lucrative men’s room fellatio any year now. The only good news is the Frenchies junk is still just that compared to anything the USA decides to sell.

The planes would be a waste of money anyway, nowhere to land or take off during wartime. Even Stol would not last long without operational air systems, no point.
Taiwan needs defense capabilities like missiles and drones. The US is doing then a favor if the C/D is a cheaper option.

I would say it needs to keep up good relations with the world, and the government should refrain from looking like neanderthals in the world’s press. That would gain much more respect. These are both far cheaper methods of reducing the risk of war.

That goes without saying bit having no defence makes you look weak and uncommitted. Nobody but the US is actually going to back up Taiwan in an altercation.

No, but they’re on the board of directors. :wink:

[quote=“Maceck”]The point is that the USA can’t sell anything ‘too good’ to Taiwan because if the weapons are ‘too good’, than they become a threat to the mainland. Taiwan is equipped with what they need to protect themselves from China; that’s all.

F-16 A/B with the upgrades are 20 years behind the F-22 Raptor of the upcoming F-35. They are, however, better than anything China has right now. selling C/D model aircraft would have not been a defense sale, but rather am aggression move and thus given China the right to heighten their military position in and around the strait.

The F-16 C/D sale was not a barometer for US support of Taiwan, but rather an over reach by the Chen administration to sabre rattle at the cost to the ‘current administration’s’ bravado.[/quote]

  1. If no new F-16s are to be sold, what will you replace the F-5s with?
  2. The F-16s will have to be rotated out of service to be upgraded. That means even fewer jets available for service at any one time.

Don’t look now, but Taiwan is going to ask for F-35 next.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1154138/1/.html

Gotta love the fact that Taiwan just got turned down for the F-16c/d, and they just go “whatever, we’ll just ask for the F-35 instead.”

But hey, nothing to lose by asking, right? It’s not like they don’t have thick skin or anything.

It is in fact amazing that Taiwan is probably the only country in the world that has problems in buying jets… all the others have problems in choosing them…

But this would create jobs at home, stimulate the economy and create stability in the region. Why would B.Hussein Obama do that?

Uncommitted to peace? Or uncommitted to war?