I always thought African American meant an American of African decent.[/quote]
It does? I thought it meant someone born to African parents, either in Africa or in America, who is an American citizen.
This is what I really don’t get about Americans. Someone only has to refer to Negros, in any context whatsoever, and it’s assumed that they have ‘problems with black people’. You only have to use the word ‘black’ in a sentence, and the Thought Police are out in force. It’s just bizarre. Of course I don’t have problems with black people. I think everyone should have one. I’m married to a self-described ‘black’ or ‘Negro’. Or should that be ‘melanin enhanced person’?
I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware the term was used in that sense. My mistake.
It doesn’t bother me in the least. Why do you think it bothers me?
No.
This is a great example of what I mean. You’re going way off the deep end, speculating wildly. In a single post you’ve gone from ‘Why does that term bother you?’, to ‘If you don’t like the term “African-American”’, despite the fact that there was no evidence whatever that I am remotely bothered by the term, or that I dislike it. I don’t dislike the term ‘African American’. I have no feelings about it whatsoever. If it’s an accurate term to use, then I’ll use it. I just thought it wasn’t accurate in this case, because I thought it had a meaning which apparently it doesn’t.
Clearly? I’m sorry, that hasn’t been at all clear to me.
I’m fairly sure that ‘Negro’ predates the 50s/60s actually.
I have already explained myself. I am not trying to make any ‘point’ by means of the term ‘Negro’. This is just typical of how discussions with Americans go. One minute you think they’re finally over all that stupid race stuff, and the next minute they’re exploding in your face because they’re reading a century of their own history into everything you write. It’s simply weird. I don’t read Australian racism into your use of the term ‘black’, even though in Australia that’s the loaded term, so why would you read American racism into my use of the term ‘Negro’?
Believe me, I’m as confused as you are. I’m groping for something he would would consider sufficiently significant to count as being ‘actually done’.
How many countries are there populated by so many people with relatively little melanin in their skin which actually have a president as head of state?
[quote] The 2008 presidential election put to bed at least one political myth — that Latinos won’t vote for a black candidate.
President-elect Barack Obama, a senator from Illinois, scored big with Hispanic voters — capturing [color=#0000FF]66 percent of the vote.[/color] Among younger Hispanics, the number was[color=#0000FF] 76 percent[/color].
Latinos were instrumental in delivering key states to Obama, including [color=#0000FF]Florida, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico[/color]. They also gave him a boost in some surprising places such as [color=#0000FF]Virginia and Pennsylvania[/color].
“It is a huge indicator of the influence of the Latino vote,” said Janet Murguia, president and chief executive of the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic civil rights organization. “There is no question that it made an important difference in this election.”
…
Murguia said that Latinos and new citizens turned out in record numbers for Obama because of “a desire to see a stronger economy, better jobs, and access to quality education and health care.”
I am looking for the CNN story I saw yesterday: that 52% of whites voted for McCain -still majority- but the remaining 40 something that voted for Obama was the highest since 1920 for Democrats. If anyone has the link, please elucidate.
It does? I thought it meant someone born to African parents, either in Africa or in America, who is an American citizen.[/quote] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American
The term “Negro” fell out of favor in the US in the mid-70s, and it is now commonly perceived as a word used by racists.
It does? I thought it meant someone born to African parents, either in Africa or in America, who is an American citizen.[/quote] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American[/quote]
There you go, it’s actually possible to improve your vocabulary on Forumosa. Useful vocabulary I mean, not just profanity.
How many countries are there populated by so many people with relatively little melanin in their skin which actually have a president as head of state?[/quote]
Good point. I should have said head of state. But even using the term “president” there are quite a few such countries according to wikipedia including, to name a few:
Is it conceivable a black could be elected president in any of those countries? Is there a single other nation on earth where people of African descent make up just a small minority of the population that could conceivably elect such a person as head of state? I doubt it, but I’d be very curious to hear if someone could name another country where it could happen some day.
What does it mean? I guess that America really is a melting pot and really is a land of opportunity. Right?
Canada. The percentage of the population that is African, however, is very, very small. Nonetheless, the current head of state (ceremonial), the Governor General, is of African descent, via Haiti; previous Governor General is of Chinese descent. I’d expect an Indo-Canadian to be elected PM before an African-Canadian, simply based on numbers and political success to date.
Expand the parameters a bit, and you’ll find more examples. Canada’s largest minority isn’t racial, but linguistic. Pretty nasty split at times between the English and French, but many PMs have been French. Does that count? Maybe not. Elsewhere? Former Peruvian president Alberto Fujimori is of Japanese descent.
On the flip side, Richard Leakey once took a run at becoming the head of Kenya’s government.
Ah, now I understand. This was all a thinly disguised performance of the Star Spangled Banner. I thought it was a serious discussion, but it was merely an expression of patriotic sentiment.
Ah, now I understand. This was all a thinly disguised performance of the Star Spangled Banner. I thought it was a serious discussion, but it was merely an expression of patriotic sentiment.[/quote]
Fortigurn, I gave a very short list of countries that fit MT’s criteria. Perhaps, rather than monosyllabic and snippy responses, you could expand on it. No?
Fortigurn, I assume you’re trollling, but I’ll play along one more round.
Do you really believe there’s another country populated mostly by caucasians in which it is conceivable that the electorate might elect a person of african ancestry to serve as head of state in the not too distant future?
If so, in what countries do you think there’s a plausible chance that could happen in the not too distant future?
Why do I doubt there are many such countries? Duh. In case you hadn’t noticed, there’s a lot of racism in the world. Frankly, I’m not sure I believed a year ago that it was possible in the U.S. – that our nation was ready for that, that a sufficient percentage of the electorate had made so much progress since the end of slavery, since the civil rights movement, since all the racism, prejudice and discrimination, that they would vote for a black person for president. I’m sure many or most felt the same way: that it would be great if people could disregard the color of a candidates skin and simply consider other issues, but the populace had not yet reached that state of enlightenment. But somehow, amazingly, it happened. Why is it unlikely to happen in another country in the near future? America is different.
Your suggestion that I just feel that way because I’m purportedly a flag waving patriot is BS. America IS different. First, few countries have such a long history as a melting pot of people from so many different races, countries, and backgrounds. Second, it’s my understanding that the U.S. has a uniquely long and powerful history of rebellion and dissent and people speaking out for equal treatment, including through the revolutionary war, the civil war, labor movements, and in the past half century the civil rights movement, women’s liberation movement and anti-Vietnam war protest movement, which had immense impacts, shaking up the psyche of the people, leading to serious debate and passing of major laws requiring equal treatment, and changing of the consciousness of the nation, so that most of us recognize that Americans are all different but we’re all Americans, and it is not surprising that this momentous event happened in America, rather than in some other nation that lacks all that history.
But those are just some possibilities. Feel free to post your own thoughts if you’re interested in anything more than trolling.
Well, NZ could easily get a maori, Winston Peters was in the running, and I’m quietly confident that despite anybody apparent in the pipeline, Australians wouldn’t be that resistant to a PM of another race, or indeed an abo. There have been a few in state and federal parliaments.
I don’t see any need to. You already proved the point, and I agree with you.
Of course I’m not trolling.
In the not too distant future? I don’t know. It would depend on what you mean by ‘the not too distant future’, though it’s interesting that this qualification has suddenly emerged.
Sure, but you seem to think that American is the least racist country in the entire world. You made an explicit appeal to the inherent virtues of the land of the free and the brave as morally superior to all other nations on the planet. That’s the kind of oath taking, tub thumping, flag saluting patriotism from which Australians naturally recoil, and I’m afraid I’ve been sufficiently culturally conditioned by Australia to respond negatively to it.
Actually you’re not the only one. Here’s a comment from way back in 2004 in a thread on an Australian forum I frequent, where the whole business has been followed closely for years:
[quote]You think a candidate (and a senator to boot) even more subject to the liberal pejorative than Kerry has any chance after all this? I don’t think so. It is a sad reality about the American public that a black or a women, no matter how accomplished, articulate and attractive, won’t be elected president for a very long time. IMO the DP’s only chance is in people like Evan Bayr who is a former governor of a red state running with someone like legal eagle Obama. The south and middle (versus coastal) have show a singular unwillingness to accept candidates that aren’t born and bred and they disfavour senators for better reasons. Tells you a lot about their mindset.
Last edited by Wolf; 4th November 2004 at 01:38 PM.[/quote]
Emphasis mine.
Oh no, here we go again.
Of course.
I see. When you try to convince me that American is some kind of unique font of moral uprightness among the nations of the world, it’s not because you’re a patriot, it’s because it’s true. I get it.
Few countries? Are you kidding? Do you know how old Britain is? About 5 times older than America. Do you know how long it has been a melting pot of people from so many different races, countries, and backgrounds? Over 1,000 years.
Uniquely long? Equal treatment? The Founding Fathers didn’t even include melanin enhanced people in their first declaration of human whites. Slavery was outlawed in England in the 12th century. When was it outlawed in the US? Women’s suffrage (national), was available in Australia from 1901. When was it granted in the US? New Zealand, England, and even India have all had women Prime Ministers. Your country has historically been way behind a lot of other countries on these issues, for years.
I could go on, but for now I’ll just quote you:
It’s clear that even a year ago you weren’t this enamored with the unique moral character of the great US Melting Pot. Despite ‘a uniquely long and powerful history of rebellion and dissent and people speaking out for equal treatment, including through the revolutionary war, the civil war, labor movements, and in the past half century the civil rights movement, women’s liberation movement and anti-Vietnam war protest movement’, you still thought that ‘the populace had not yet reached that state of enlightenment’. So whatever it was that changed things, it must have taken place fairly recently.
I think it’s far more likely that the reasons why this occurred in the US before it occurred in somewhere like Australia include:
A lengthy history of strongly determined and well organized involvement in the US political process among African Americans (there is no remotely comparable record among Australian Aboriginals, which remains a major embarrassment to the indigenous community since it’s a massive self-inflicted injury)
The massive achievements of the African Americans during the Civil Rights movement, combined with systematic affirmative action programs enhancing the opportunities for the Advancement of Colored People, and a uniquely united African American community (despite many government initiatives to improve the plight of the indigenous community in Australia, the community itself is hopelessly divided and repeatedly frustrates the positive aims of both the government and itself)
Without these two, there’s no way Obama would have even made it to the election, regardless of how many whites would have voted for him once he was there.
If I had time to think about this a little more, I could probably put together a more sophisticated answer. But to put things in perspective, why is it that Obama is the president today, instead of a member of the North American indigenous community?
Huang Guang Chen, well said. I reckon Big Eddie could have gone places in politics, especially after he nutted the Banana Benders. Unfortunately he did himself a mischief by disqualifying himself permanently from political involvement, in 1992.
Is this the attack Fortigurn thread? Maybe it’s an Australian thing, but I’ve understood what he meant with everything he said. How people can find offence or trolling in his statements in ludicrous.
That’s it fortigurn. Sayonara. If you insist upon turning a simple discussion into an argument based on distortions of what others have said, I’m taking my ball elsewhere. Enjoy.
It does? I thought it meant someone born to African parents, either in Africa or in America, who is an American citizen.[/quote]
What about someone who is born to a Taiwanese mother and American father. I would call them Taiwan/Chinese-American. It allows them to claim both
heritages. Besides, Obama is really more of an African-American that I am in the sense of the word. He has direct linage to Africa and America. While mine takes detours thru Ireland (and that’s not because of the slave trade)
As cfimages said, maybe you just don’t understand Australian culture.
I suppose people can call themselves what they want, certainly.
My wife is more Native American Indian than African, but she doesn’t call herself an Amerindiafrican. I suppose she could, to claim all three heritages. I have heard (through my wife and her connections), of ‘Chinegros’ and ‘Blatinos’. Are they recognized distinctions, or are they just ghetto talk? If you’re a Blatino or a Chinegro, does that mean you’re not an African American? What about Afritinos, or Chinafricans? Would a Dominican Republic/Latino be a Dorito?
Interesting. It doesn’t show, does it? Then again, heavy pigmentation is a pretty dominant trait, and those with only 1/4 to 1/8 African genes usually end up getting called black in the U.S., even though they’re really much more ‘other’. Some feel Obama should really be called biracial, not black, and I’ve seen numerous instances of news stories doing exactly that, which I think is quite reasonable.
[quote]but she doesn’t call herself an Amerindiafrican.
[/quote]
It gets awkward quickly, no? Where’s that damned SpanEngFrenchAmeriMexican checkbox on the census?
Maybe they should switch to having us draw pie charts.
Sure, I could claim all the above-listed heritages too, but…
Sounds like a humorous attempt at new coinage to me – never heard of these. We used to call our half Mexican, half Thai neighbor a Timex.
No, if you’re part African, and you’re a U.S. citizen, then you’re in the broad, heterogeneous group known as African-American, even if you have other stuff mixed in. If you’re a U.S. citizen and descended from Hispaniola, you’re Latino, even if your skin is very dark.
[quote] Would a Dominican Republic/Latino be a Dorito?
[/quote]
No, they’d be Dorinos.
Anyway, maybe we just need a new check box on the census saying ‘melting pot’.
There will be a lot more babies named Obama or Barack soon!
“The biggest public hospital in Kisumu, a town in western Kenya near the village where Obama’s father was born, delivered six Obamas, two Michelles and a girl called Baracka Obama the day Obama was declared the next president of the United States.”
No, they’d be Dorinos.