But, the sport and fun is in trying! 
It doesnât appear to me that you are very open to changing your opinion.
Yes to the first point, not necessarily to the second point.
Fred,
If war is always going to be the answer, then you and every other American will have to get used to an increased level of threat, not just for the next couple of years but potentially for decades, the same way several european countries have had to.
I like several other UK citizens remember only to well the threat both potential and actual caused by the IRA.
It should be remembered, that the current lack of violence by the IRA has been brought about by diplomacy and dialogue, not by arms, though i have no doubt this was a factor behind the starting of dialogue.
To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
But we are right and they are wrong and yes there are times when fighting is necessary as Chamberlain could tell you. And no, the US does not resort to war for each and every incident. We arrive at our solutions slowly and deliberately sometimes without yelling yippee ki yeah mutha fucka. Hard to believe.
Yes, Tigerman, half the fun is trying. I will give up posting on this forum when Rascal posts a mea culpa admitting that all Germans are evil, all Americans are good and that he is going to vote Republican in the next election, i.e. for Bush after the paperwork on his American citizenship goes through. He does not even have to admit we were right three times about Iraq. Only once will suffice.
Difference (mea culpa) is that the IRA ran out of American support (financial and weaponry) and the British fought them to the negotiating table. They were not ready to do it in the beginning. Al Qaeda wants Spain to be Muslim. Shall we negotiate? Israel should be pushed into the sea? Shall we negotiate? India should be ruled by the Muslims. Shall we negotiate? Women are not allowed to work or have equal rights to men? Shall weâŚhmmmmm. Nevermind. 
I guess the thing that irked me and why I wanted to get this objective standards thing set up is because I believe that those of us who supported the war against Iraq are frequently painted as mindless rubes that only want to shoot em up bang bang, but au contraire. I have studied at both Hebrew University and the American University in Cairo and I have been to almost all of the countries of the region (three times in the last year). I know the history, I know the politics, the religion, the art, the architecture, etc. and to me that gives me a bit of a reason when I say âitâs war.â I believe we are facing exactly the same kind of situation with these regimes (fascist ala the 1930s) and appeasement and negotiation are not options. This is a fight to the finish and I am ready.
Tigerman
[quote=âTravellerâ]
My views on this subject are quite deliberately as focused as yours. [/quote]
As stated at the beginning of the same message that you quote from.
Change your opinion and you are immediately called inconsistent. 
Change your opinion and you are immediately called inconsistent. [/quote]
[quote=âRascal will answerâ]Yes you did!
[/quote]
so the marshall planâŚa democratic and free europe was not part of the original calculations? somalia. ending hunger was not part of the original calculations? kosovo. ending the ethnic cleansing was not part of the original calcualtions? your grasp of history is atrocious.
As we are talking about measuring standards, I suggest that the we use imperial measures to ensure objective standards and bring back the Empire.
Rule Brittania 
[quote=âBroonAleâ]As we are talking about measuring standards, I suggest that the we use imperial measures to ensure objective standards and bring back the Empire.
Rule Brittania [/quote]
Another pint!
[quote=âComrade Stalinâ][quote=âBroonAleâ]As we are talking about measuring standards, I suggest that the we use imperial measures to ensure objective standards and bring back the Empire.
Rule Brittania [/quote]
Another pint![/quote]
Thatâs all the Brits need.
Wasnât there something in that song about how Brits never, never will be slaves?
Another pizza, curry, or fried lice foe The Honorable English Gent?
But heck, musnât blame them. Their own food tastes like boiled lumpy turds in a sautee of soiled socks. No wonder they had to start such an empire, it was nothing more than a Quest For Flavor, Of Any Kind!
Did somebody say another pint?! Great idea, because the truth be toldâŚObjective standard numberâŚ
- ainât nothing so bad a few stiff drinks canât help you ignore⌠(but then not every body can with out becoming immoral eh?)
Human nature (even its alturistic manisfestation) is self serving, if not number one then the son of number one, if not the son then the brother, if not the brother then the friend, if not the friend then the football club (Manchester United sucks but its owned by a Yank and thatâs great), if not the football club then the country, if not the country then the religion, and so on until all the fish are fried and the lands are dried. So we all have nationalistic values (or bias if you will). No big surprise there.
Yâall are going to find it hard to be objective in this thread without acknowledging that first. I thought this thread was going to be about setting rules of debate, but its just another dumb (occassionally funny) shouting match.
Hey bartender, another pint of Guinness please (I got a thread to ignore).
Chou