Well, maybe the next attack will be in Frankfurt and then… maybe there will not be rolling eyes when the attack hits closer to home.
[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“Rascal”]Be scared, be very scared.
[/quote]
Rascal,
I do not understand the use of the rolling eyes emoticon. This is just some of what they have done:[/quote]
Thanks, I have seen the pictures and I am aware what those extremists/fanatics have done in the name of Islam (i.e. without actually being represantative of Moslems), but no doubt, there now is a lot scaremongering going on that does nothing but lead to hatred of all things Islam.
[quote]They claim to want to do far worse.
How is this not frightening, or how is this fear worthy of dismissal with rolling eyes? :s[/quote]
Doesn’t mean I need to get paranoid, blame Islam and bomb every Muslim to kingdom come. As such I dismiss the scaremongering, not the threats and possible attacks.
You want to fight this war, fine, but you are not going to win it with military aggression (unless anyone considers nuking all of them as a viable option) and/or by coercing more people into the believe that all Moslems are your enemy.
I would be more careful with arguments like these, because otherwise someone could just argue that if the next attack hits the US many people that still are or have been on your side (until recently) may just think you got what you derserved.
I am just sick of seeing old men with big bushy beards and thick shell-rimmed glasses talking to the masses… 
go to the Sahara, nuke yourself…
I don’t think I’m anywhere near paranoid… and I certainly do not think we should bomb every Moslem to anywhere. But, I don’t think its “scaremongering”, either, to show actual footage of acts committed and hate rallies and transcripts of actual words spoken by these folks.
I’d rather not fight any war… and I don’t know of anyone trying to make me believe that all Moslems are my enemy…
Would you think that, Rascal? Would you think that innocent civilians would have deserved to have been targeted?
What if an act of terror is committed in Germany? You are aware, are you not, that there are Islamofascists in germany calling for violence against Germans. If those people act on those calls for violence and commit a terroristic act in Germany, against German civilians, perhaps your friends and or family members, will you believe that they deserved to be targeted?
No and no.
I didn’t say that I think civilians deserve(d) to be targeted (see also my answer above), i.e. I was not referring to myself, just responding in the same “stupid” manner as fred’s argument.
This floated around the internet a few months back. It is a Syrian Women’s opinion about the clash between Islam and the west. It’s really a powerful speech and worth watching if you have not seen it yet. In the video, a Muslim Cleric (Dr. Zaius from Planet of the Apes?) can’t deal with her message and starts in on the heritic/blasphemous diatribe. Dialogue below.
Youtube: youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0
[quote]
February 21, 2006 - Arab-American Psychologist - Wafa Sultan
The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. IT is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these right, on the other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.
Q#1: I understand from your words that what is happening today Is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?
Yes, that is what I mean.
Q#2: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue if you don’t mind……
The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: “I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger.”
When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to stop this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.
My colleague has said that he never offends other people’s beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names they did not choose for themselves? Once he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the “People of the Book,” and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians “those who incur Allah’s wrath.” Who told you they are “People of the Book”? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What give you the right to call them “those who incur Allah’s Wrath,” or “those who have gone astray,” and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refreain from offending the beliefs of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect other’s right to believe in it.
Q#3: Are you a heretic?
You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural….
Q#4: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran…… (garbled)
These are personal matters that do not concern you. Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don’t throw them at me.
You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people’s beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.
The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge.
We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. WE have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. WE have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy.
Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.[/quote]
4nr -
There have been a few other items Dr. Sultan posted on some other threads. She is a powerful voice.
Oh well, things get repeated sometimes. The post kind of fits in with what we were discussing, so I’ll just leave it as is in case anyone missed it the first time around.
Hee hee hee hee… What da ya want for nothing? … a rubber biscuit?
[quote=“4nr”]Oh well, things get repeated sometimes. The post kind of fits in with what we were discussing, so I’ll just leave it as is in case anyone missed it the first time around.
Hee hee hee hee… What da ya want for nothing? … a rubber biscuit?[/quote]4nr -
No…no dis on the post. It is a fine post and representative of the work she is trying to do and the opposition she is having to deal with.
Glad to see her getting the exposure.
More folks need to hear Wafa Sultan’s message.
She speaks the truth.
Dead on.
Islam, please enlighten yourself and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
I rest my case.
I rest my case.[/quote]
Sorry dude, I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
I’m also not sure how you can honestly argue against what insight this woman has to offer on the subject at hand. You’re the only one who seems to think the video is going to great lengths to show how we need to fear Islam.
I rest my case.[/quote]
Sorry dude, I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
I’m also not sure how you can honestly argue against what insight this woman has to offer on the subject at hand. You’re the only one who seems to think the video is going to great lengths to show how we need to fear Islam.[/quote]
The point is that you have watched a video about Islamic fundamentalists but have neglected to separate them from regular Muslims - that’s what my concern is with the video. Despite the messages at the beginning and end of the video, people like you will still attach all that fear and misunderstanding to the general Muslim population. Furthermore, there is much about Christianity that is stuck in the Middle Ages, but we choose to ignore it and attack other ‘outdated’ religions instead; I don’t remember there being any female popes, for instance, and ancient rituals abound within the church, including partaking in the blood of Christ, for one example.
And where have I argued against the woman in the video … dude? This is the danger in videos such as the first one: people such as yourself tend to jump to conclusions despite a complete lack of evidence to back up their fears. They then act accordingly, just as you did. That’s the danger in propaganda-laden videos such as the Obsession one, and you underline my point beautifully.
Read the title of the thread; the video is being used to support invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq … even though the guys who flew into the towers were all Saudi. You have watched the video, which other posters have recognized as being biased, and accepted its content and formed an opinion accordingly. This is propaganda in it’s purest form.
For me, the message the video wants to get across could be true or it could be false - I don’t know - but when it’s presented in such a propagandistic fashion, my first reaction is to ignore it and seek the truth elsewhere.
No. Again you are wrong. I will not make that mistake because I am able to critically think about the issue. I am afraid though that perhaps you cannot.
It’s not ‘Joe or Betty’ Muslim I have an issue with. It’s their leaders, theirs imams, their mullahs.
A bias might be one thing, but to refer to this video as propaganda in its purest form is fairly thick of you. Again, you’re the only one posting on this thread so far that thinks this negatively of what the video is attempting to shed light on.
Watch the video (Wafa Sultan) again, and pay attention this time.
Bwa ha ha ha…I’m not even going to respond to this comment of yours. You are delusional. Too funny.
Keep the blinders on Stray Dog, keep on rollin’…
Cry me a river.
No I would imagine that a great many people have fear of Muslims because almost all of the terrorism in the world is being caused by Muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists but it certainly seems as if all terrorists are Muslim, eh?
No female popes and the institution of communion are the moral equivalent of murdering innocent women and children, female genital mutilation, absolutely no rights for women and honor killings among many other “problems?” My moral relativism barometer just blew a gasket.
Saddam funded terrorism. Afghanistan gave a base to al Qaeda. Saddam threatened his neighbors. Removing him was key to “reforming” the region. We are having problems but doing nothing was not such a great solution either. We are attempting other methods to crack down on Saudi Arabia. We should be doing more, but the simplistic the terrorists were Saudis misses the crucial connnection to how terrorism is used and abused throughout the Middle East. We need to clean up the whole region or it is not going to stop. We need to remove Assad and the mullahs in particular.
And I would imagine that to a great extent you are also the patsy of propaganda efforts. Islam is a religion of peace. Not all Muslims are terrorists. We need to understand the root causes. Yes, we have heard all this before but when people die, who generally is causing the deaths? why is it that we do not need to convince anyone similarly that Christianity is a religion of peace and that not all Jews are terrorists and that we must understand the root causes of whatever action is being contemplated by Buddhists?
Perhaps, to rest comfortably upon the same biased sources whose message you have already digested, accepted and now have absolute faith in? Just a thought…
Geez, look what happens to the voice of moderation around these parts.
HG
THAT is the crux of the matter isn’t it HGC. Do you believe that INDIVIDUALS or GROUPS have rights. I think you are leaning toward the latter but if GROUPS have rights then who determines what exactly that group stands for and what rights should be accorded to it, the loudest, most violent segment? THAT is in a nutshell what you really are defending when you call for UNDERSTANDING of Muslim extremism. Muslim moderates are losing out because you want to “understand.” Knock yourself out… please!
In a semi-related matter…(mods if you want to start a new thread with this…no problemo)
[quote]Wire Services Defend Staged Photos
from [color=green]LGF[/color]
The news wire services are circling the wagons around their propaganda photos from Qana: News agencies stand by Lebanon photos.
NEW YORK - Three news agencies on Tuesday rejected challenges to the veracity of photographs of bodies taken in the aftermath of an Israeli airstrike in Lebanon, strongly denying that the images were staged.
Photographers from The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse all covered rescue operations Sunday in Qana, where 56 Lebanese were killed. Many of their photos depicted rescue workers carrying dead children.
A British Web site, the [url=http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/08/we-need-to-know-truth.html]EU Referendum blog[/url], built an argument that chicanery may have been involved by citing time stamps that went with captions of the photographs.
For example, the Web site draws attention to a photo by AP’s Lefteris Pitarakis time stamped 7:21 a.m., showing a dead girl in an ambulance. Another picture, stamped 10:25 a.m. and taken by AP’s Mohammed Zaatari, shows the same girl being loaded onto the ambulance. In a third, by AP photographer Nasser Nasser and stamped 10:44 a.m., a rescue worker carries the girl with no ambulance nearby.
The site suggests these events were staged for effect, a criticism echoed by talk show host Rush Limbaugh when he directed listeners to the blog on Monday.
“These photographers are obviously willing to participate in propaganda,” Limbaugh said. “They know exactly what’s being done, all these photos, bringing the bodies out of the rubble, posing them for the cameras, it’s all staged. Every bit of it is staged and the still photographers know it.”
The AP said information from its photo editors showed the events were not staged, and that the time stamps could be misleading for several reasons, including that web sites can use such stamps to show when pictures are posted, not taken. An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it. Reuters, in a statement, said it categorically rejects any such suggestion.[b]Updates on thread at link - this story has legs[/b]
[color=green]From Little Green Footballs.com[/color][/quote]
No. Again you are wrong. I will not make that mistake because I am able to critically think about the issue. I am afraid though that perhaps you cannot.
It’s not ‘Joe or Betty’ Muslim I have an issue with. It’s their leaders, theirs imams, their mullahs.
A bias might be one thing, but to refer to this video as propaganda in its purest form is fairly thick of you. Again, you’re the only one posting on this thread so far that thinks this negatively of what the video is attempting to shed light on.
Watch the video (Wafa Sultan) again, and pay attention this time.[/quote]
Erm … do you know which video we are talking about? There are two videos being discussed in this thread - maybe you didn’t see the first one.
It’s laughable that you slag off Islam then pretend you meant a small part of it. Good luck with making that stick. 