Ocean's Twelve

Thanks for that explanation guys. Not entirely sure that I appreciate the way that Lars Von Trier ended Dogville though. What he failed to consider was the possibility that the central character might have been able to forgive “herself” if she had abused a position of power. There is certainly nothing arrogant about doing that. The film falls apart thematically because of the ending. Pity. It was great otherwise.

Yes it does, which is why ‘God from the machine’ is not a good translation.

Eight. You forgot Billy.[/quote]

I’m sending the both of you the bill for cleaning apple juice out of my keyboard.
:laughing:

[quote=“James T”]Deus Ex Machina.

Tetsuo had a very accurate description. When Greek playwrights had written their protaganists into a corner, they would fly in a god to extricate them from the pinch. The actor playing the god would be hoisted (or canti-levered) over the skena (backdrop), thusly creating a god in the machine. The canti-lever was the machine.[/quote]

This phrase is actually a much later invention to describe a literary device which originated in archaic Greece. The Greeks didn’t call it ‘Deus ex machina’ that’s a Latin phrase, not Greek.

This is what causes the confusion, because it’s a phrase coined later to describe the contemporary use of an archaic device.

Traditionally, it wasn’t used in that way at all, it was used to reinforce the classical Greek epistemology, which held human fate in the palm of the gods.

Does this about wrap it up?

A deus ex machina is the introduction of a plot element that could in no way have been predicted from the things that have gone on before. Sometimes this serves a useful purpose thematicaly and sometimes it doesn’t. In Greek times, when people were more inclined to belive in acts of god (gods?), it was perhaps used more intelligently than it is today, hence the disparaging conotation it seems to have acquired.

Thanks.

That’s pretty helpful bob, thanks.

[quote=“bob”]Does this about wrap it up?

A deus ex machina is the introduction of a plot element that could in no way have been predicted from the things that have gone on before. Sometimes this serves a useful purpose thematicaly and sometimes it doesn’t. In Greek times, when people were more inclined to belive in acts of god (gods?), it was perhaps used more intelligently than it is today, hence the disparaging conotation it seems to have acquired.

Thanks.[/quote]

Good job Bob. I recall glossing over this term in the past.

I read Jeffrey Archers Sons of Fortune while on holiday.

This was a great example of predictable reading. I kept turning pages and wondering why I did. (bored on holiday) I think he wrote this in jail and was probably not at his best, or he had never heard of a deus ex machina
either.

ironman wrote[quote]Fox wrote:
Ocean’s 11 was crap so one would only expect Ocean’s 12 to be crappier.

What is a good movie in your world? I mean is it more Pulp Fiction or Sound of Music or something in between.
[/quote]

I liked both of those movies. I like all the actors in Ocean’s 11, but it was just such a crap hoist flik. Now Snatch was a good caper movie. Don’t get me wrong I’ll watch it. I can do crappy. But I don’t confuse the lame ass titilation it gives me from the reality that it was a load of crap.

I’ll go with that. I watch it and work on enjoying it if necessary and its true. Oceans was crap if you want to pull it apart.

I saw meet the fockers in Aus with family and friends. Funny movie but like a party joke that needs work and enthusiasm to keep laughing at as its developed.

My friend just said “that was average” as some reviewers have done.

It sure wiped the satisfied smile from my face.

Liked Ocean 11 and 12. I thought the setup was weak, but enjoyed the movie. I liked that the Chinese dude spoke more and I could understand what he said (and that he was “thugged out”). Enjoyed a lot of the silly scenes like when Matt Damon talking about his dad making fun of him.

I personally liked the way the egg was stolen. One thumb up (on a 2 thumbs down to 2 thumbs up scale).

Its stupid. There, I spoiled it!

SPOILER

There are twelve of them!!!

END SPOILER