O'Conner should resign over Canadian torture scandal

Politics International Politics
1

This disgusts me. Canada should never be involved with torture.

cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/04/ … rture.html

Latest Afghan abuse claims spark cries for O’Connor to resign
Last Updated: Monday, April 23, 2007 | 8:54 PM ET
CBC News

The opposition made calls for the defence minister’s resignation Monday, after the publication of a damning report about the torture Afghan detainees face when Canadian soldiers transfer them to Afghan security forces.

[b]The Globe and Mail published interviews Monday with 30 men who say they were beaten, starved, frozen and choked after they were handed over to Afghanistan’s National Directorate of Security, a notorious intelligence police force.

Some of the men said they were whipped with bundles of electrical cables until they fell unconscious. Others said they were stripped naked and left outside all night, when temperatures in Kandahar dipped below freezing[/b].

One man said he was hung by his ankles and beaten for eight days, while another said he was choked while a plastic bag was held over his head.

In the House of Commons Monday afternoon, the NDP, Bloc Québécois and Liberal parties attacked the Conservative government about the allegations and called for Defence Minister Gordon O’Connor to step down.

“The torture in Afghanistan is awful,” NDP Jack Layton said. …

Law professor Michael Byers, who specializes in international law and human rights, questioned whether O’Connor, as well as chief of defence staff Gen. Rick Hillier, can remain in their positions.

Byers, who teaches at the University of British Columbia, said the Globe’s allegations are extremely serious. The report would suggest the Canadian military is aiding in the act of torture, by handing detainees over to torturers, he said.

“If this report is accurate, Canadians have engaged in war crimes,” he said at a press conference in Ottawa.

He said Hillier signed an agreement in December 2005 that allowed for the transfers, but didn’t include a clause giving the Canadian military the right to inspect detainees after transfers have taken place.

He said European countries that have transfer agreements have included this clause, which is crucial.

“If we hand detainees over to known torturers … and we tell them, ‘nudge, nudge, wink, wink, we will not be back to inspect them,’ that gives them a lot of latitude,” Attaran said.
Other allegations of torture

Attaran brought other allegations of abuse to light in February.

Through the Access to Information Act, he said he received documents from the Department of National Defence that show three Afghan prisoners were abused while in the custody of Canadian soldiers.

Those allegations are being investigated by the military and the Military Police Complaints Commission, a civilian agency.

This story has been going on for over a year now, I keep hearing about it, but it seems nobody wants to face it or discuss it.

We should pull out of Afgahnistan. Period. This is not the country I profess to love. We never should have gotten involved in Afghanistan in the first place.

:raspberry: :noway: :fume: :help: :blush:

2

O’Connor has shown himself to be an incompetent Minister of Defence. The worse thing is that he’s my local MP. Sigh…

The environment is the big issue of the day in the minds of the voters, thus, when Rona Ambrose (Environment Minister) proved herself to be pretty useless, she was replaced quite quickly. However, this torture issue just hasn’t gotten enough traction in the public and until it does, O’Connor will stay where he is.

3

[quote=“sjcma”]O’Connor has shown himself to be an incompetent Minister of Defence. The worse thing is that he’s my local MP. Sigh…

The environment is the big issue of the day in the minds of the voters, thus, when Rona Ambrose (Environment Minister) proved herself to be pretty useless, she was replaced quite quickly. However, this torture issue just hasn’t gotten enough traction in the public and until it does, O’Connor will stay where he is.[/quote]

We all have our priorities. :laughing:

4

This story has finally broke big – before yesterday it would pop up now and then, and then yesterday it was in like 800 papers around the world. I’m not proud of it, but I’m happy the people responsible can no longer hide.
I hope they all rot in jail. The only way Canada can redeem itself is to put all responsible away where they belong.

5

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070424/wl_ … mFw.6jbA8F

Canada’s military police complaints commission is looking into allegations that on at least 18 occasions, Canadian officials handed over prisoners, knowing they might be tortured.

According to the Globe report, [b]Mahmad Gul, a farmer, said he was interrogated by Afghan police for three days in May 2006. Canadian soldiers visited him between beatings.

“The Canadians told me ‘Give them real information, or they will do more bad things to you’,” Gul said.
[/b]
Separately, four investigations are under way into whether Canadian troops mistreated three Afghan men captured in April 2006.

Bummer.

6

Disgraceful. O’Conner’s head should roll if this is happening. If this resulted from cozying up to the Bush admin Harper’s head should go too.

7

I’ve been hoping this story would stay confined to international news outlets none of our students read, but sadly…

taipeitimes.com/News/world/a … 2003358163
Canada to probe Afghan abuse claims
TORTURING TALIBAN: A newspaper report said 30 Afghan prisoners handed over by Canadian forces to local officials were beaten and subjected to electric shocks

AGENCIES, OTTAWA
Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007, Page 7

Advertising Advertising
Critics demanded the resignation of Canadian Defense Minister Gordon O’Connor on Monday over fresh allegations that Afghan prisoners, detained by Canadian soldiers and handed over to local authorities, had been tortured.

The Globe and Mail newspaper talked to 30 men who variously said they had been beaten, starved, frozen, choked and subjected to electric shocks while in Afghan custody.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper told parliament that the government would investigate the allegations and follow them up with the Afghan government.

“The government is taking these allegations seriously,” Harper said.

Canada signed an agreement with Afghanistan in 2005 that commits Canadian soldiers to handing over captured Taliban prisoners to local authorities.

The agreement has been criticized by human-rights groups because it does not give Canada the right to check on the condition of prisoners it has detained.

In an effort to address those concerns, the Canadian army signed a deal with the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission in February that obliged the agency to notify Canada if its prisoners had been abused.

No such report has been received by Abdul Quadar Noorzai, the Afghan official in charge of the Kandahar branch of the rights commission.

“They will advise us of any abuses and we said we would provide any logistical support they need,” O’Connor said.

None of the abuse in the allegations was inflicted by Canadians, and most enemy captives praised the Canadian soldiers for their politeness, their handling of captives and their comfortable detention facility.

Michael Byers of the University of British Columbia, a leading expert in international relations, said that if the allegations were proved true, Canada had broken a UN treaty against torture as well as the Geneva Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war.

“I hope the Canadian people realize just how terrible a day this is. If this report is accurate, Canadians have engaged in war crimes,” Byers told reporters.

The only solution is for Canada to construct its own detention facility in Afghanistan, where prisoners can be treated humanely, he said.

Hey that sounds PEACHY FREAKING KEEN! LETS CONSTRUCT A GITMO IN CANADA!!!

No not really, actually, this news makes me want to drink even more, but frankly I am posting ity because I think some people would appreciate a “heads up” when it comes to the fact that those who teach adults may find themselves having to say “Canada” and “torture” in the same sentence without throwing up.

Yeah, this sux, it blows, it breaks like the wind, but dammit, I thought people would appreciate a fair warning. Get your talking points ready now, your going to need them.

Bottoms up.

8

Why? Are you also under the false impression that everything Canadian is perfect?

I mean gosh, you’ve had your collegiate shooting spree; your radical Muslim violence, and now your troops are torturing combatants overseas.

Watch it or people really will start confusing you with Americans. :laughing:

“Get your talking points ready?” Come on, like anyone here gives a rat’s crack what goes on outside this rock.

9

Most Taiwanese adults I have talked to don’t have much of a problem with torture to be perfectly honest. They see is as necessary to extract confessions, or in any case, since Canada did not do the torturing, they won’t think much of it other than bad things happen during war.

This is no way an apology for what happened.

BUt want to see much more about this. On the surface it’s hard to see what more Canada can do. We allowed a watch dog agency to follow up on prisoner transfers thus at least acknowledging the reality of prison conditions in Afghanistan and taking steps to mitigate torture.

Byers sounds like he’s making this out to be another Gitmo, which so far, I see no evidence of. We aren’t an occupying force, and we don’t control the prison system. Would we even be allowed by law to set up our own detention facilities in another country where we are merely helping to prop up the government? I would guess not.

10

Why? Are you also under the false impression that everything Canadian is perfect?

I mean gosh, you’ve had your collegiate shooting spree; your radical Muslim violence, and now your troops are torturing combatants overseas.

Watch it or people really will start confusing you with Americans. :laughing:

“Get your talking points ready?” Come on, like anyone here gives a rat’s crack what goes on outside this rock.[/quote]

Read the article. It’s not our troops doing the torturing. And this is not like your rendering program where you turn a blind eye. We have to by treaty turn these people over. Which makes sense since we are not an occupying force.

11

So what’s the hubbub, bub?

12

So what’s the hubbub, bub?[/quote]

Well, I believe it is still against the GC to knowingly handover prisoners when you suspect they will be tortured. We like to play fair in Canada and respect the treaties we sign. But obviously adhering to our treaty with the Afghans means violating our GC obligations which should supercede any agreement with a failing third world propocracy.

13

The Taipei Times article seems a little clearer. Canada had a treaty to hand over prisoners and at the complaints of human rights groups agreed to let a human rights group check in on the status of prisoners and report to us any torture.

We should have a policy like the Europeans which would provide the maximum safeguard against toture.

It would make no sense for this to have involved higher levels of government. We are not getting the information back from prisoners once they are handed over and in any case it would likely be of no use. We don’t occupy the country.

The abuse of 3 prisoners by Canadian soldiers would seem to be a seperate issue.

14

Sorry Mucha Man but that’s such a Canadian thing to say. Your country (government) is no better or worse than any other country in the world. Exporting asbestos to 3rd world countries, seal clubbing and not to mention Canada’s ill treatment of its indigenous people are just a few burdens you have to bear. The only difference is the (perceived) relevance is proportionate to the figurative size and power of your country. If this story would have been the U.S. in place of Canada we would be on page 8 by now.

15

[quote=“treetop”]I’ve been hoping this story would stay confined to international news outlets none of our students read, but sadly…

taipeitimes.com/News/world/a … 2003358163
Canada to probe Afghan abuse claims
TORTURING Taliban: A newspaper report said 30 Afghan prisoners handed over by Canadian forces to local officials were beaten and subjected to electric shocks[/quote]

You might want to think about sewing a US flag on your backpack. :wink:

16

Ain’t war a bi-yaaatch?

17

[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“treetop”]I’ve been hoping this story would stay confined to international news outlets none of our students read, but sadly…

taipeitimes.com/News/world/a … 2003358163
Canada to probe Afghan abuse claims
TORTURING Taliban: A newspaper report said 30 Afghan prisoners handed over by Canadian forces to local officials were beaten and subjected to electric shocks[/quote]

You might want to think about sewing a US flag on your backpack. :wink:[/quote]

Now that’s funny. Well penned MT, well penned indeed! :notworthy:

18

Sorry Muzha Man but that’s such a Canadian thing to say. Your country (government) is no better or worse than any other country in the world. [/quote]

Nowhere did I say that a respect for fair play was an attribute of our government. I meant our people. They have a respect for rules and fairness and when scandals like this break out people want results. the last time we were involved in a torture scandal, the entire unit was dissolved, never to be allowed to form again even with new members.

Despite having more faith in big government, most Canadians have few illusions that that government can at times do wrong things.

Want to talk about that? My brother is a senior policy advisor for Indian Affairs, so I know exactly what we have been doing for the past 15 years and in large it has been playing fair and honoring the treaties we have with native groups. Half the country is up for the taking in the courts right now. We’ve been bending over backwards to make reparations to native groups.

Hmm…seem to recal saying not long ago (in a thread you were posting in) that if Canada didn’t torture it meant something to Canadians; if America didn’t, it meant something to the world. Don’t seem to recal you standing on my side when the Fred hit the fan.

19

zmag.org/content/showarticle … emID=12688

Is this Canada’s Abu Ghraib?
Harper and O’Connor can’t escape Afghan torture scandal
by Derrick O’Keefe

April 28, 2007

There are, to be sure, significant differences between the torture scandal currently engulfing Ottawa and the one that rocked the Bush administration three years ago. There are no gruesome photos and, unlike the U.S. abuse of Iraqi detainees, the torture in Afghanistan is being done by Canada’s local allies.

But in many ways this scandal is equal to the outrage of Abu Ghraib. With the photographic evidence of the abuse in Iraq, even old Donald Rumsfeld could not have pulled the straight-faced performance of Stephen Harper and Gordon O’Connor in the House of Commons this week.

Faced with the shocking accounts from Afghan detainees featured in The Globe and Mail this week, Harper had the audacity on Tuesday to dismiss the reports as “allegations of the Taliban.”

Graeme Smith, The Globe and Mail correspondent in Afghanistan (and, by the Prime Minister’s appalling logic, a Taliban spokesperson), conducted weeks of research touring “medieval nightmare” prisons and interviewing 30 detainees. Smith recorded accounts of beatings, electric shock, whipping, freezing and starvation among the methods employed by the security forces to which Canadian soldiers turned over their detainees.

On Wednesday, The Globe and Mail delivered the knockout punch to Harper’s and the Conservatives’ evasions and denials. The headline summed it all up, “What Ottawa doesn’t want you to know: Government was told detainees often faced ‘extrajudicial executions, disappearances, torture and detention without trial’.”

A 2006 report on Afghanistan compiled for Foreign Affairs Canada provides proof that the Conservative government knew about all of this, contrary to everything O’Connor and the PM have been saying for months - and what they, incredibly, continued to assert in the House this week. Key passages of the Afghanistan report were blacked out, but The Globe and Mail obtained an original copy. The censored content, what Ottawa didn’t want us to know, includes the following passages:

"Despite some positive developments, the overall human rights situation in Afghanistan deteriorated in 2006…

Extra judicial executions, disappearances, torture and detention without trial are all too common. Freedom of expression still faces serious obstacles, there are serious deficiencies in adherence to the rule of law and due process by police and judicial officials. Impunity remains a problem in the aftermath of three decades of war and much needed reforms of the judiciary systems remain to be implemented." (The Globe and Mail, A1, April 25, 2007)

It is important to note that the torture scandal that has exploded in recent days is something that the anti-war movement and human rights activists have been trying to expose for years. Lawyers Against War, Amnesty International and academics like University of British Columbia professor Dr. Michael Byers have long been sounding the alarm that Canada was in violation of the Geneva Convention by handing over detainees to almost certain torture and abuse.

This includes, lest we forget, handing over prisoners to U.S. authorities, who have established their own facilities for “enemy combatants” at Bagram Airbase in Afghanistan and the infamous Guantanamo base on occupied Cuban territory.

Canada’s complicity in torture has also been a motivation for the many groups across the country advocating for troops out of Afghanistan. Those who have defended the current NATO mission as a “humanitarian intervention” have lost a lot of credibility this week.

For instance, in a recent feature essay in This Magazine, Vancouver journalist Jared Ferrie does not mention torture once and makes a bold assertion, “for all its flaws, the current Afghan government’s human rights record is light years ahead of any in the past three decades.”

Rather than “light years ahead,” Afghanistan’s current situation looks like more of the same that the country has endured for decades:

Counter-insurgency war, corrupt government, “medieval” prisons and widespread torture. This has accompanied the long tradition of foreign intervention, pursued in turn by the UK, the USSR and the U.S.

Canada is now deeply complicit in all of this, and neither the denials of Stephen Harper nor the rationalizations of liberal interventionists will be able to change that fact.

*Derrick O’Keefe is a founding editor of the weekly on-line journal Seven Oaks Magazine and a co-chair of Vancouver’s StopWar coalition.

All I want to know is this: Why aren’t any Canadians talking about this? Canadians seem like such a peaceful-type people, and I would think they would be outraged and protesting. But instead, it’s like nothing has happened at all. I don’t get it. Is is that they don’t know about it? Jeez, it’s like the biggest story in Canada these days, how could they not? Is it that they don’t care? Is it that they don’t read the papers? Is it that they knew about it all along and it’s not new news to them? Do they approve of it?

I just don’t get it? Canadians: why the silence? Do you have any feelings about this at all?

20

There are already two threads on this. I have expressed my anger and disappointment with the government in as strong of terms as I will at this moment before more information comes out.

The one thing that is clearly different from this and Abu Ghraib, is that we are not an occupying force. We don’t control the country. We are just there to help. By treaty we have to turn these people over. That we have doen so knowing they may face torture is pathetic and wrong but I’m not sure what alternatives there are. Could we build out own permanent facilities for holding prisoners? Can you do this in another country? Can we just ship them back to Canada?