Offered a job

Hi,

So i have been offered a job but it is under the minimum hours for an ARC (14 if i am not mistaken). It is 10 hours, quite good pay (650)and the kids were really great when i did the demo - was a lot of fun.

I want to take the job (obviously realizing that it is illegal to work without ARC) and i go to the school tomorrow to talk about the ARC situation. I have a feeling they may rescind the job offer because i’ve been in this situation before where i have been asked if i have ARC? i say no and they say sorry they only sponsor the full time teacher to get ARC.

I am thinking about saying to them that i will do 10 teaching hours and 2 hours admin unpaid, brings it up to 12, and maybe they can just put down 14 or something?

I have a feeling this is quite common over here. I dont mind doing visa runs every 3 months (just done 1 actually no problems) as i have friends in the Philippines who i can visit. Only problem with that is it gets increasingly tricky with immigration when they quite clearly see you hopping back and forth.

What is your question?

Looks like you already have your plan, albeit a risky one.
I doubt they would be willing to pay you for the additional admin hours you are requesting. You would actually be working for about 464/hour if they agreed to let you do admin work to fill in for the extra hours needed for your ARC.
Thus, essentially, creating a market where employers think foreign teachers are desperate and willing to work for peanuts and unpaid hours. Please don’t encourage this kind of employer thinking.

i thought it was common? My flatmate is a teacher and has to go into the office for some hours but only gets paid for teaching hours.
Also know 2 other teachers who work at HESS and they certainly have to do extra office hours…pretty sure unpaid.

Also thought it was common for schools to declare slightly more hours for teachers in order for them to qualify for ARC. Guess i was wrong?

Do they know you do not have an ARC?
I find it odd if they don’t know. Most schools will want to know that upfront before you demo.
They offered you 10 hours, so one can conclude that they either assume you already have an ARC with open work rights or you are willing to work illegally.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but please keep in mind MANY schools will put you in a classroom with handpicked kids, the best behaving sort, and have you demo with those students.
They do this to lure you in and take a risky job.
I could be wrong though, and this could be an exception.

Your comments here are a little confusing.
Why would they offer you a job for 10 hours and then say they can’t hire you because they only will sponsor a full time teacher?
They are obviously looking for a teacher who is willing to work under the table or someone who can provide their own ARC.
Again…I find it very strange that they did not ask about your ARC status up-front.

See my previous post about this one.

I am not sure how “common” it is. However, I do know you will start to run out of money doing so many visa runs so often. If you are here for the adventure of it all…go for it. But if you want to save money, then look for a job that can sponsor your ARC and give you full-time hours.

She did say that i might be able to get more hours next semester.

yes they know i dont have an ARC.

[quote]Sorry to rain on your parade, but please keep in mind MANY schools will put you in a classroom with handpicked kids, the best behaving sort, and have you demo with those students.
They do this to lure you in and take a risky job.[/quote]

I appreciate people actually responding to posts but throwing in the extra negative flotsam which has nothing to do with my question…is it really necessary?

[quote=“FarFlungScot”]i thought it was common? My flatmate is a teacher and has to go into the office for some hours but only gets paid for teaching hours.
Also know 2 other teachers who work at HESS and they certainly have to do extra office hours…pretty sure unpaid.

Also thought it was common for schools to declare slightly more hours for teachers in order for them to qualify for ARC. Guess I was wrong?[/quote]

Hess is far from my favorite place, but this comparison isn’t really suitable. Hess does sponsor your ARC, so putting in a little extra time to make your classes run smoothly isn’t the same as do free office work in order to get your ARC. Also, Hess offers start-up support (at least they did when I was there) in the way of training (in terms of how they want you to manage their classrooms) which actually does help with the job. It’s unpaid, but they pay for the hotel. Plus, the time let’s you get acclimated to the country a little.

They also guaranteed hours, so you know they were not going to pull the rug out from under you a few weeks later, which this school very well could. (Oh, you lost a class…sorry, now only 8 hours a week…but, you need to spend that time in the office…unpaid like your other office hours of course.)

And as far as the extra hours at Hess, if you were efficient, and didn’t get lured into the local work pattern of screwing around during your paid time and staying 2 hours late for free, then you could actually finish at a reasonable time. I am not sure if it’s still the same or not.

As far as the offer and your plan, if you are desperate to stay here, and that is your only option, then advance at your own risk if you so desire (I personally wouldn’t.)

One more thing to think about is whether or not you can sustain yourself on that pay.

I was not aware you had a specific question.

I wouldn’t accept a job on the pretense that I “might” be offered “some” extra hours in the “future”. It is all too vague and used all too often in the buxiban market here. False promises, false hopes, staged classrooms of ideal students to reel in the fresh meat.

I was merely trying to give you some sound advice and a friendly heads up so that you could make an informed decision. If you were crossing the street, unaware, and a bus was about to plow into you, would you not appreciate someone hollering out “Hey! you! Watch out for that bus!”? I know I would appreciate that.

In my first post.

Was after information on this. I guess i was looking for someone here who had had DIRECT experience of this i.e. had worked without an ARC for a few months OR their school declared 14 hours when they were only working 12 etc etc…

Maybe i should have mentioned before but i know the director (through networking contacts) at the school…i’m pretty sure they arent scamming me or are saying to me they will give me 10 hours when they plan to tell me later (after ive signed the contract for 10) that its only 6 or 8…

My old roommate worked for a place that gave him less than 14 hours but put him on paper for 14 for the ARC. I assume they shuffled hours around on paper to make it all work.

This was a few years ago though, but I assume not a lot has changed on that front.

He had to shuffle around all over the place (picking up random hours at other schools) though, as 20-25000/month means renting a room and eating instant noodles every day.

There are a lot of people with an arc who work less than 14 hrs. No way the govt. cand find out until you go to renew your work permit and show them the taxes you paid, just fyi. Being only 2 hours below is seriously not an issue IMHO, I’ve known people who work 8 hours and even saw a thread here about someone who got his arc renewed by a school, where he currently did not have a single hour, as sometimes gigs fluctuate.

Search the forums.

Telling someone to break the law, face deportation, fines, etc. based on what you heard someone say or something you read about someone hearing something from someone is just crazy to me. Really? I mean…really? Come on, where is the common sense in the world anymore?

If you value your future in Taiwan and teaching here, then for goodness sake, make a truly informed decision and lets hope its a logical and smart choice.

Don’t throw away your possibilities based on hearsay.

It’s not uncommon for schools to advertise 10 hours a week plus offer ARC. Just saying. I’d be absolutely shocked if someone is actually doing the math on your taxes just to see how much you’re making per hour. Maybe if you got taxed on 100k for a year’s work it would send a red flag to someone, assuming that someone would even care to begin with. Has anyone even heard of someone getting nailed for something like this?

I really would not suggest that you work illegally. The problem here is that you could end up being deported for good.

In my experience there is a reason why the school cannot get a teacher with an existing ARC, as it is dead simple. Same applies to those with marriage visas or APRCs. There is a general shortage of hours, so it should not be hard to find a teacher with the right papers.
I do not think anyone is raining on your parade intentionally, but think about it.
With the current job shortage, there should be easy to get a legal teacher. Right?

Ask for the ARC if they say no then move on. Regardless of whether they say yes or no, there will be a period where you are working without an ARC which to my knowledge is officially illegal.

Telling someone to break the law, face deportation, fines, etc. based on what you heard someone say or something you read about someone hearing something from someone is just crazy to me. Really? I mean…really? Come on, where is the common sense in the world anymore?

If you value your future in Taiwan and teaching here, then for goodness sake, make a truly informed decision and lets hope its a logical and smart choice.

Don’t throw away your possibilities based on hearsay.[/quote]

I personally know 3 people in the situation I named.

If the school will actually get him a work permit and an arc, with that amount of hours, Ijust don’t see the problem.

My opinion, based on people I know, take it or leave it.

I’ve heard of schools offering to sponsor for fewer than regulation hours, but then asking the teacher to pay taxes on hours he/she didn’t work.

You may get away with something like this, but you shouldn’t attempt it, in my opinion. There are too many teachers working for peanuts and willing to accept whatever scheme is offered to them. It only weakens opportunities for you in the long run. You’ll see no wage increase–the trend is down due to desperate teachers. You’ll see fewer and fewer legitimate full time jobs, and more and more Taiwanese will think less and less of the moral fiber of non-Taiwanese because they know you will kneel as far as needed beneath the law for less and less in return.

Think this offer through carefully.

[quote=“housecat”]I’ve heard of schools offering to sponsor for fewer than regulation hours, but then asking the teacher to pay taxes on hours he/she didn’t work.

You may get away with something like this, but you shouldn’t attempt it, in my opinion. There are too many teachers working for peanuts and willing to accept whatever scheme is offered to them. It only weakens opportunities for you in the long run. You’ll see no wage increase–the trend is down due to desperate teachers. You’ll see fewer and fewer legitimate full time jobs, and more and more Taiwanese will think less and less of the moral fiber of non-Taiwanese because they know you will kneel as far as needed beneath the law for less and less in return.

Think this offer through carefully.[/quote]

Well said housecat. My thoughts exactly.

Kind of makes me wonder why as many are intent on teaching here :ponder:

Kind of makes me wonder why as many are intent on teaching here :ponder:[/quote]

Its not china…but it is. I think thats why.

Kind of makes me wonder why as many are intent on teaching here :ponder:[/quote]

Its not china…but it is. I think thats why.[/quote]

If China is their thing then why settle for the watered down version? I guess Taiwan is medium, medium well done. China is bloody and cold in the middle. I say dig your teeth in some raw flesh and get a real taste of it.