"Oh, you're one of *those* teachers..."

I think BM’s hit it on the nail here. The original poster seems to think that a piece of paper makes you a better teacher.

I’ve only taught at one school, so my experience is a little limited. Most of our teachers (including myself) have degrees and are thus working here legally. We currently have one teacher here who doesn’t have a degree and has to go to Honk Kong every 6 months for a visa. He does a great job and is very serious about his work. We have also had people with degrees (even some who majored in English or were qualified teachers) who sucked in the classroom or didn’t care about the job.

So Its basically up to the kind of person you are, and how much motivation you have to do a good job.

teggs[/quote]

Woah, hang on there. ImaniOU doesn’t mean that… I think.

Qualifications can make you a better teacher, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t be a good teacher without them OR a bad teacher with them.

I agree with the posters who say it’s the character, not the papers that make you a good teacher. If you want to do something and do it well, you put your mind to it and do it. You respect the people who pay you to do it. Not just in teaching. In plumbing, acting, customer service, cooking, make up artistry, real estate, anything.

Actually… if you go back and reread the original post, I don’t think that’s what Imaniou was getting at at all…

What he was complaining about was the attritude that some people approach the job… An attitude that I have personally seen in many instances and simply shows a total lack or respect for the position the individual has assumed…

Cheers!

Daryl

Actually… if you go back and reread the original post, I don’t think that’s what Imaniou was getting at at all…

What he was complaining about was the attritude that some people approach the job… An attitude that I have personally seen in many instances and simply shows a total lack or respect for the position the individual has assumed…
[/quote]

Actually this isn’t the first time that Imaniou has posted about this type of behavior and has used the lack of credentials as basis in her arguement. I tend to sense a smugness in the post about where people stand respectively in the teaching community and who can be deemed of value. My 2 nt…

:unamused:

My biggest pet peeve is when others attempt to put words into my mouth. I am sick of people who think that because they lack any kind of training that they don’t have to be teachers…that refer to their jobs as glorified babysitting without showing any initiative to make their jobs any more than just that.

The ones who complain or make smart remarks when they hear about what dedicated teachers do in their classrooms because they can’t be bothered making that kind of effort themselves.

I have worked hard in every job I have had since I started working voluntarily at the age of 13. It’s not a matter of snobbiness as namahottie might want to believe. It’s a matter of thinking people should be willing go put in some interest into what they are doing, especially if it’s in the service industry where people are paying you to be the best.

I have worked with certified teachers who had no business being let into the classroom except to see what a real teacher looks and sounds like. A piece of paper means nothing if you’ve got a shitty attitude toward your students and your job. However, I have a special place in my heart for those who come in with little knowledge or experience and decide that they want to become better teachers so they work hard at improving themselves and in making their classrooms work well.

You see both kinds on here. Those who are looking for programs to help improve their teaching styles…and those who are simply looking for the cheapest, fastest program just so they can get a better paying job.

And if the earth were to split and swallow up those who cheated their way into their positions, I would find it extremely hard to feel even slightly bad for their predicament…

It comes across as smug. Not snobby. You don’t like words being put in your mouth, then be consistant.

I think the key word that should be noted in your comments is “willingness”. If someone is willing to make a difference then a difference will show up. But being willing is a matter of choice, and by no means is it my business to make someone to choose.

I worked in the Chicago public schools for 2 years, and it was abosolutely appaulling(sp) to see how teachers approached their jobs. Did I get my kickers twisted. Yep, because I was walking around ‘thinking’ they “had” to be a certain way. And peeved about it alot of times. What a waste of energy on my part. Now it’s not worth my time, energy to be concerned with how others live their life or do their work. How they do it speaks volumes about them not me. Yes, I may have to clean up the messes from time to time, but what is important is what I DO because I can only be accountable for ME.

Yes… I agree with this comment to a certain extent… I don’t let how others perform affect me personally… But I do think it is sad and slightly unfair that a certain group of people color the perception of our profession in an unfair way… Not saying that these people shouldn’t do the job… I have just always found that when you do something you owe it to yourself to do it to the best of your ability… not to walk in and do a half-assed job and still expect to get paid for it…

Cheers!

Daryl

Yes… I agree with this comment to a certain extent… I don’t let how others perform affect me personally… But I do think it is sad and slightly unfair that a certain group of people color the perception of our profession in an unfair way… Not saying that these people shouldn’t do the job… I have just always found that when you do something you owe it to yourself to do it to the best of your ability… not to walk in and do a half-assed job and still expect to get paid for it…

Cheers!

Daryl[/quote]

You are very correct, yet people we work with have various upbringings, experiences, etc that come into play. The bottom line is be accountable for you, don’t worry about the rest. If you can alter it , then by all means alter it. If not, then these sort of people serve to remind you how important it is to take pride in what you are doing…

Good points Nama…

I DO take pride in trying my best… When there are so many other extremes around (and I am by no means implying I am a great teacher) it makes it easier to realise that you are doing a good job, or at least trying to…

Cheers!

Daryl

No, not unless they want to be. You are paid to teach, to care. If you can’t make even a halfway convincing show of trying then you’re a disgrace to the people who try to earn their money.

It doesn’t matter if you’re a cop picking his nose while people run red lights in front of him. It doesn’t matter if you’re a musician going through the motions in front of an audience that has paid good money. It doesn’t matter if you’re a mechanic pretending to fix something or an accountant who doesn’t care about how much tax his client has to pay.

You’ve entered into an agreement to do something useful and to be rewarded for it. If you feel it’s not useful then make room for someone who sees things differently. They deserve the money more than you do, and the students deserve a better teacher, because that’s what they’ve paid for.

Teaching doesn’t have to be your career. You don’t really need massive qualifications. But if you are taking money from people who are paying you to help them then the least you can do is make a little effort. How are you going to go about aiding da student in a buxiban environment so he can excel in his highschool or Univ’s prof class, where he is learning English? You have to start by seeing yourself as a teacher, by believing that you have something of value to exchange for the poor bastard’s money. Describe yourself as ‘merely’ anything and you’re belittling the whole endeavour and all the other people involved in it.

It’s no wonder Imani sounds angry.[/quote]

Obviously you shouldnt have a poor atitude when performing your job, and also should be professional, like u mentioned regardless if U R teaching english or selling bubble tea.

However, besides complaining about some ppl’s bad attitudes the OP mentioned

[quote]
The lackadaisical, “the-teaching-industry-in-Taiwan-is-a-joke-so-I’ll-play-the-part-of-the-comedian-telling-it” attitude really, really pisses me off. I am sick and tired of lazy, no-good SOBs coming here and poisoning the classrooms of children with their horrible lack of interest in teaching, treating it as simply a better way of making money than staying at home and working at a blue-collar job. I’m sick and tired of people who cannot own up to the fact that they don’t have real teaching qualifications and therefore feel that they can write off having any culpability because of their lack of teaching skills and training. I am sick and tired of those people who treat teaching as simply the easiest means to stuff their pockets with cash. Why do people feel that teaching is just a job to fill the time between paydays? Why do these useless wastes feel that they deserve the title of “teacher” when they are simply the English-speaking trained monkey complaining about their station in life yet perpetuating it with their lack of motivation to become a better teacher?

I know there are plenty of people out there in Taiwan who are not like this and who have a genuine interest in not only teaching the students put in their charge, but also in improving their own teaching techniques and methods. What one lacks in training can easily be made up for in a desire and effort to improve, grow, and achieve as a teacher.[/quote]

this is where he will get upset wid me as: I dont have a genuine interest to become a better teacher (don’t attend teacher workshops, TESOL courses, attend college/Univ for english credits), i don’t have any REAL TEACHING QUALIFICATIONS, (5000poo_something posted a neat defenition of a prof. english teacher) and I cannot pretend/be fake and ask students about their personal lives when i dont care. If a student though is interested in a certain topic, I will incorporate it into da curriculum, but solely because he is da customer and I want to satisfy him/her so I can keep ma job, not because i think it’ll improve learning.

Nama - give me a break. Imani is just saying she respects teachers who work hard at their jobs (regardless of qualifications) and gives no quarter to those who are gold digging slackers. If you think she’s smug for having a professional attitude, then I suggest you rethink your own qualifications and motivations for teaching.

You get out of life what you put into it.

[quote=“Jefferson”]Nama - give me a break. Imani is just saying she respects teachers who work hard at their jobs (regardless of qualifications) and gives no quarter to those who are gold digging slackers. If you think she’s smug for having a professional attitude, then I suggest you rethink your own qualifications and motivations for teaching.

You get out of life what you put into it.[/quote] I don’t think she’s smug, but what’s being said. Oh well, I tried and seems like you called me on it…LOL

—edit afterthougt----
Actually Jefferson, what does questioning what’s being presented have to do with my own qualifications and motivations. I agree with Imaniou’s concern about the quality of teacher. Yet, I am pointing out that I’ve noticed this type of post before. My favorite saying is “if you do what you always did then you’ll get what you always got”. But still the bottom line is that you can’t be accountable or waste time over people who aren’t as willing as you are to put forth the effort to make a proper difference. It’s a choice just like your last sentence.

Some more random thoughts from “The God of Professional English Monkeys” (that’s me :smiley:).

From what I’ve seen from mine eyes, teaching is only a part of the Taiwan Teaching game (what percentage depends on your school). Other things that come into play here is your ability to please management, parents, and the students (this is more important when teaching adults, and obviously the parents are less).

These of course are important teaching anywhere, but it’s a little different when you have no control over the books you use, the materials you have in class, etc… It’s hard to get excited about using a crap book. It’s hard to have fun when all the dry erase markers are dried up.

Sure, you can do things to change this, but (I realized I’m getting back to what I said already, oops) why should a teacher care when the school obviously doesn’t? <— rhetorical question

Lets get back to that first post:

I guess this attitude doesn’t piss me off. I don’t know much about the English teaching industry, but what I do know about it leads me to believe it is a joke. One of those jokes, not many people laugh at (except for maybe Dr. Doom Buxiban owner that rakes in the doe laughing in a dark corner MWA HA HA, MWA HA HA, MWA HAHAHAHAHAH!!!)

I guess I kind of do. At my first school I tried being a real teacher, but that ended up getting frustrating. My time would have been/has been better spent learning the Taiwan English Teaching game.

In my eyes the amount of “real teaching” I will/can do is directly proportional to how serious the school is about getting real teaching done and the tools they provide me with.

The difference between “real teaching” and, uh, “unreal teaching”?

It’s easy to go into a school, preform like a robot (a Mutant Monkey Robot of course) and do a job that’s good enough. It’s harder (and probably takes a certain kind of person) to keep tabs on the progress of every student and do things to help that student do better in areas they’re struggling in (someone would probably have to care about the stundent to do that). Some schools aren’t even setup to do that.

Some schools put you in front of a class of 30 kids and have you barking orders at them all day and you probably have 100 different faces you see. I mean, that’s teaching too, but is it “real” teaching? Seems more like high karate robo-monkey acrobatics to me.

[/ramble]

Okay, I hope no school owners are reading this :laughing:
I’ll own up to being the person who said this to Imaniou (the OP) in the first place, and I should explain that I was being very very ironic. And I would never ever attempt to use fake qualifications.

I’m well aware that there seems to be multiple levels of “seriousness” (for want of a better term) to the English schools here. Imaniou seems to work for a “serious” school who want well-qualified teachers in a well-equiped school, in an enviroment that inspires their teachers to go that extra mile.
As Imaniou said, she was just about to go to her school (in her off hours, on a Sunday) to prepare her classroom. I’m very happy for her that she feels such dedication to her work, and I apologise for any offense I may have caused.

Maybe if I was interested in teaching English enough that I could consider it my career, or vocation, then I’d probably kill to be in a school such as Imaniou’s. Then again, maybe if I worked at a school such as Imaniou’s I would be inspired enough that I would persue EFL as a career.

For me, teaching is a job, like any other. I worked in one kindy here that was beautifully equipped, had wonderful students, we were free to use anything and everything that might be useful for learning purposes, and we had experienced and qualified ECE teachers looking over our shoulder available for advice at anytime. We also had an absolute shitload of paperwork and meetings, and enough personal politicking and infighting that the Taiwan Legislative Yuan would be proud.
My next kindy job, for the same pay, had a hopeless tight-fisted boss, who expected us to buy most of our material out of own pockets, and tried to tell us how to teach our classes, despite himself being an high school drop-out former dock worker. The actual teaching, I thoroughly enjoyed.

I enjoy teaching, and in all my jobs I like to do the best I can, if only for my personal pride.
However at least here in TW, if it comes down to being a “real teacher” with ECE or BEd, or being a ‘buxiban’ teacher [/i]for very often the same pay and conditions, [i] then I seem to have made a defacto choice already. I obviously wasn’t thinking about it too much.

In addition, going back to the West and getting trained and qualified and certified, at vast expense, when I can get better paid in Taiwan, well, let’s just say I’d have to think very hard about that one.

PS, Miltown Kid’s post above has lot of very valid points that I largely agree with. Well said that poster.

Well the best thing is being the school owner because then you’re a business person first and perhaps a teacher second.

I have seen people with degrees in education & TESOL certs who are poor teachers and those who have degrees in zoology perform really well.

Those that perform the best just do what their bosses ask, play lot’s of games and just keep the kids happy so they come back for more. Hopefully some language learning thrown in. Kindergartens probably a good case in point.

Other bosses push the teach and daily test routine, get those scores up… get those bits of paper to stick on the wall and do those GEPT tests and score 300 oh yeah.

[quote=“xp+10K”][quote=“webdoctors”]. . . .I don’t have any professional qualificatioons, I just do it to make $$, not as a career…


Aren;t people working in buxiban’s, cram skule’s, etc. etc. merely engilsh tutors?

that was my take on it, like I’m aiding da student in a buxiban environment so he can excel in his highschool or Univ’s prof class, where he is learning English.[/quote]

That sounds like a pretty good take, and it’s pretty close to my take. I’m not TESOL or TEFL certified, and I have no certification in education. I don’t care whether I’m called a teacher. Additionally, I do what I do to make money.

xp+10K[/quote] You’re obviously interested enough in what you’re presently doing to be browsing a teaching English forum while you’re not working (I guess).

Firstly, let me say that I do give a rats-ass about what I do in the classroom.

With that disclaimer out the way(always need one of those on Forumosa), the OP seems to have a problem with people doing a job because it pays well and it’s better than they can get back home. I don’t follow that logic at all. Surely the OP isn’t suggesting they don’t have the right to improve their living conditions?

Neither can I remember a time when one needed to be Mother Theresa to work in a buxiban. If somebody is working to a standard acceptable to the employer and the students, then what’s the big deal? I wouldn’t expect a call centre worker to live and breathe customer services. Teaching isn’t as different as you’d like to think.

And this discussion is very vague. We seem to be discussing some kind of mythical worst case teacher. How are people classifying a “bad” teacher? If parents, students and boss are happy then what’s it got to do with anyone else?

Live and let live is the rule here methinks.

My problem is when people are not willing to take their jobs seriously and deride others who do.

I agree people shouldn’t deride you for doing your job properly.
But I also think if somebody doesn’t do their job properly, whether they be teacher, baker or candlestick-maker, that shouldn’t be any of our concern.

[quote=“Diablo”]But I also think if somebody doesn’t do their job properly, whether they be teacher, baker or candlestick-maker, that shouldn’t be any of our concern.[/quote]But if they’re working in the same profession as us it should be our concern, as it negatively impacts the public perception of the profession, and thus on people’s beliefs about those in that profession.